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  • #141
  • Dec 5, 2011 4:21am Dec 5, 2011 4:21am
Quoting pacejordan
I dont use stop losses. I think they are the main reason people loose.
You are going to get burned.
Gone to a better place
  • #142
  • Dec 5, 2011 5:23pm Dec 5, 2011 5:23pm
Quoting smikester
You are going to get burned.
I too don't use Stop Loss as I do not wish to let my
broker know where its set. Brokers go Stop Loss Hunting.
Instead I use a Mental Stop Loss and I find it more convenient.
Winning is a Great Feeling!
  • #143
  • Dec 5, 2011 5:47pm Dec 5, 2011 5:47pm
Quoting johnblake
I too don't use Stop Loss as I do not wish to let my
broker know where its set. Brokers go Stop Loss Hunting.
Instead I use a Mental Stop Loss and I find it more convenient.
yes, brokers go stop loss hunting. that's why every single chart from every single broker is virtually identical.

every broker, including brokers you aren't with, hunt YOUR PARTICULAR STOP. they are all in cahoots.

retard.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #144
  • Dec 5, 2011 7:25pm Dec 5, 2011 7:25pm
Quoting nubcake
yes, brokers go stop loss hunting. that's why every single chart from every single broker is virtually identical.

every broker, including brokers you aren't with, hunt YOUR PARTICULAR STOP. they are all in cahoots.

retard.
Nubsy hits the nail on the head.

Nothing like leaving your bare arse out hanging in the wind.

Really amazes me how many people on this forum think the brokers are hunting their stops.

I mean give your heads a shake. Have you ever watched multiple feeds?
Do you have any idea on how absurd the whole concept is?

Mental stops...Yep OK.....

LOL
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #145
  • Dec 5, 2011 7:46pm Dec 5, 2011 7:46pm
This is actually my favorite-

Quoting pacejordan
Im not losing money but I have several trades upside down that I will be waiting quite a while for them to return.
  • #146
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:45pm Dec 5, 2011 8:45pm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WXezaq54mx...shit+again.jpg
  • #147
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:53pm Dec 5, 2011 8:53pm
Quoting Marv
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WXezaq54mx...shit+again.jpg


LOL YES MARV ! ! !



http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...fx/deja_vu.gif
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #148
  • Dec 5, 2011 10:24pm Dec 5, 2011 10:24pm
Quoting bluesteele
Nubsy hits the nail on the head.

Nothing like leaving your bare arse out hanging in the wind.

Really amazes me how many people on this forum think the brokers are hunting their stops.

I mean give your heads a shake. Have you ever watched multiple feeds?
Do you have any idea on how absurd the whole concept is?

Mental stops...Yep OK.....

LOL
What is wrong with mental stops? They are perfectly okay to have as long as one is willing to take loss when the trade is not working. There are so many reasons why one would not want to place a hard stop. Revealing the order is certainly one of them. May not be applicable for small accounts though. Another reason is to look for a graceful exit once the market has hit a level proving the trade wrong.

Everyone on this forum becomes so derisive whenever the topic of not using hard stop losses is mentioned.
  • #149
  • Dec 5, 2011 10:29pm Dec 5, 2011 10:29pm
Quoting Eklavya
Everyone on this forum becomes so derisive whenever the topic of not using hard stop losses is mentioned.
because the reasons given are always of the highest order of ignorance and completely flawed.

if you are going to get out at a certain level then why not just put the stop in place and be done with it? none of the muppets who ever talk about brokers hunting their stops and whatever have never, and will never, have a stop that anyone ever gives a damn about. they are all noobs trading with bucket shops who aren't gunning for their stops as evidenced by the matching charts across all brokers. period.

the fact is that people just don't want to be proven wrong over and over by the market. similarly here on the forum. fact is that they are wrong on both counts.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #150
  • Dec 5, 2011 10:47pm Dec 5, 2011 10:47pm
Quoting nubcake
if you are going to get out at a certain level then why not just put the stop in place and be done with it?
Not every method has a hard stop loss. I can have a methodology of closing a trade based on close above a level. I can have a method to start looking for an exit upon price hitting a level. Hell, I might even have a method of adding to a position when price hits a level I initially considered my stop and the price begins to turn. The point is there are perfectly reasonable trading methods that can work w/o the necessity to use stops.

Having said that I do agree it is not right that people don't use stops because don't want to take a loss or they mention mental stops only to satisfy some of their internal demons and when the time comes to take a loss, they find reasons to not close the trade.
  • #151
  • Dec 5, 2011 10:59pm Dec 5, 2011 10:59pm
Just wait for the day that a central bank intervenes in a currency you have a trade on ( like I know it has never happened..........oh wait, yes it has....many times in recent months!! ) and the market moves hundreds of pips in minutes.

I guarantee you even if you did try and exit the trade, your broker will slip you badly. It will take you weeks to come back from that.

Just look at the movements on AUD/USD ( and many other USD pairs ) a week or so ago when 4 banks intervened........go to a 1 minute chart and have a look. I was watching this live and there is no way you would have got out without taking a massive loss.

Same with EUR/CHF some months back when the SNB bought Euro's like they were going out of fashion in an instant. Sorry to say, but I don't care how quick you are on the trigger, your mental stop won't work and you will lose bigtime.

each to their own............at the very least use a disaster stop......trading with no stop whatsoever is insane.......it's only a matter of time.

Quoting Eklavya
What is wrong with mental stops? They are perfectly okay to have as long as one is willing to take loss when the trade is not working. There are so many reasons why one would not want to place a hard stop. Revealing the order is certainly one of them. May not be applicable for small accounts though. Another reason is to look for a graceful exit once the market has hit a level proving the trade wrong.

Everyone on this forum becomes so derisive whenever the topic of not using hard stop losses is mentioned.
- Look to the left, Trade to the right - I am the system
  • #152
  • Dec 5, 2011 11:02pm Dec 5, 2011 11:02pm
Quoting Eklavya
Not every method has a hard stop loss. I can have a methodology of closing a trade based on close above a level. I can have a method to start looking for an exit upon price hitting a level. Hell, I might even have a method of adding to a position when price hits a level I initially considered my stop and the price begins to turn. The point is there are perfectly reasonable trading methods that can work w/o the necessity to use stops.

Having said that I do agree it is not right that people don't use stops because don't want to take a loss or they...
if you have a system that decides it is time to exit only when certain conditions align then that's cool and good luck with that. what was suggested, and keeps getting suggested ad infinitum, is that stops get hunted by brokers or whoever. due to this supposed hunting it is supposedly in the interest of a trader to not put a stop.

that's broken logic as i've previously shown. further to that, if one is clever enough to see stops getting hunted then why don't they put their own stops SOMEWHERE ELSE? if they are clever enough to see predatory behavior then why don't they become predators themselves? the answer is they don't because they can't because they are full of nonsense.

all it takes is one idiot to suggest, without any evidence or facts, that brokers hunt stops for the masses of losing idiots to read this and immediately accept this as their saving grace. suddenly it becomes 'fact' that brokers hunt stops and so using stops is wrong and the reason they fail. this is complete bullshit. the market as a whole might gravitate towards stops at times, but good luck finding one of these no-stop hero's ever show you where the market does this. they can't and won't. it's all just words to make themselves feel better about not taking immediate losses when they are wrong.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #153
  • Dec 5, 2011 11:07pm Dec 5, 2011 11:07pm
Quoting Sebastiaan76
Just wait for the day that a central bank intervenes in a currency you have a trade on ( like I know it has never happened..........oh wait, yes it has....many times in recent months!! ) and the market moves hundreds of pips in minutes.

I guarantee you even if you did try and exit the trade, your broker will slip you badly. It will take you weeks to come back from that.

Just look at the movements on AUD/USD ( and many other USD pairs ) a week or so ago when 4 banks intervened........go to a 1 minute chart and have a look. I was watching this...
In market conditions like this a stop loss is not going to help you. You will end up taking a monster loss regardless of a stop loss. It just like the situation of a weekend gap where a stop loss order does not help.
  • #154
  • Dec 5, 2011 11:10pm Dec 5, 2011 11:10pm
Quoting Eklavya
In market conditions like this a stop loss is not going to help you. You will end up taking a monster loss regardless of a stop loss. It just like the situation of a weekend gap where a stop loss order does not help.
Eklavya
What can you share about the setting of stop loss?
It seems the target profit is easier than setting stop loss, I think?
Cheers
  • #155
  • Dec 5, 2011 11:42pm Dec 5, 2011 11:42pm
Quoting sniperfxmy
Eklavya
What can you share about the setting of stop loss?
It seems the target profit is easier than setting stop loss, I think?
Cheers
Not sure I understand your question. One MUST have a stop loss before a trade is entered. It is generally recommended to have a hard stop loss order. Where you place your stop loss order is determined by the method you are trading. You can have price action/indicator based stop loss or volatility based stop loss. You can decide to give yourself a buffer when placing stop loss to protect yourself from stop hunt situations like the preceding discussion.

So in a nutshell there are multiple ways you can plan to take a loss if your trade is not working. No one method is better than the other. You will need to decide which once you are most comfortable with.

Re profit targets, it is preferable to have an open ended profit so that you give yourself a chance to earn an outsized profit should the market decide to give you one. If you must place a profit target limit order, it is better to have one such that you have a high Reward:Risk ratio. Generally one must avoid 1:1 or lower profit targets. It is very difficult to profit consistently from such systems. Now I am not advocating that a system with better than 1:1 RR is good. All i am saying is that higher the RR, better are the chances of success as long as one manages risk well during the trade.

Again you will need to decide how you want to approach taking profits. As long as you have a logical and reasonable plan for stop losses and profit taking, you would have a decent trading system/method.
  • #156
  • Dec 6, 2011 12:04am Dec 6, 2011 12:04am
I think you are wrong on that. I've had stops honored to within a few pips (in fact in the very situation that occurred last week ).

I'd bet you my entire live account that the slippage you might get on a pre-set stop loss order, even in those market conditions would be far less than a market order stop loss/trade close I initiated manually.

Weekend gaps, a different story altogether, hence I don't leave trades over the weekend .

Not trying to be difficult, just stating the facts as I've experienced them.

Quoting Eklavya
In market conditions like this a stop loss is not going to help you. You will end up taking a monster loss regardless of a stop loss. It just like the situation of a weekend gap where a stop loss order does not help.
- Look to the left, Trade to the right - I am the system
  • #157
  • Dec 6, 2011 12:13am Dec 6, 2011 12:13am
Quoting Sebastiaan76
I think you are wrong on that. I've had stops honored to within a few pips (in fact in the very situation that occurred last week ).
That may very well have been the case and your broker may have decided to honor the stop loss to keep the relationship going/keep you happy.

But think about this. When such a market event happens when the price jumps abruptly, such as the chf intervention, you will not be able to find buyers for your chf and that is why the price jumps. How will your broker realistically find a buyer when there are none out there?

The only way IMO to protect oneself in such a situation is to trade small such that when such a event happens, once can take loss and survive.
  • #158
  • Dec 6, 2011 12:22am Dec 6, 2011 12:22am
True, I think if you are trading 4 hour or daily and above charts and your leverage is relatively low, then that is an entirely different game.

If you are trading lower time frames like 5 or 15 min with higher leverage then I think you should use stops. My 2c.

I still say a preset stop will have less slippage than one initiated manually, purely because the order would be initiated instantly, unless your reaction time is instant?

What happens if you are having a sip of coffee, or off to the toilet when it happens .

Good conversation to have anyway.

At the end of the day, if your account ends the week positive, who cares!



Quoting Eklavya
That may very well have been the case and your broker may have decided to honor the stop loss to keep the relationship going/keep you happy.

But think about this. When such a market event happens when the price jumps abruptly, such as the chf intervention, you will not be able to find buyers for your chf and that is why the price jumps. How will your broker realistically find a buyer when there are none out there?

The only way IMO to protect oneself in such a situation is to trade small such that when such a event happens, once can take loss...
- Look to the left, Trade to the right - I am the system
  • #159
  • Nov 15, 2014 10:55pm Nov 15, 2014 10:55pm
Made over $50,000 in forex so far, starting from a very small bank ($200). Not sure what is going to happen now. System still working so I'll try to keep going. Although I should probably change to a less agressive stance now.
  • #160
  • Nov 17, 2014 7:34pm Nov 17, 2014 7:34pm
Quoting maaac
Made over $50,000 in forex so far, starting from a very small bank ($200). Not sure what is going to happen now. System still working so I'll try to keep going. Although I should probably change to a less agressive stance now.
top stuff, that's an excellent achievement.
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