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Real Fx traders do not use stoploss

  • #161
  • Oct 10, 2011 5:31am Oct 10, 2011 5:31am
Quoting pip_seeker
I think your logic is a bit wrong because IMHO if you have a $20,000 acct and don't use a stop your risk is always 100% or $20,000 whichever is greater.

Now if you mean what you risk on each trade as in lot size I think in time you will find you are over-leveraged. I doubt you will get away with that for long.

(This type of risk equation won't work for everyone... don't try this at home boys n girls.)






[size=3]Ok, so in the first part you claim to have no stop but then go on to talk about...
It seems to me that you do not get what am tyring to explain here. I don't use any stop but when my system tells me to exit, I exit either with a loss or profit.
Ofcourse, I try not to exit at a 1 big loss area.
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  • #162
  • Oct 12, 2011 3:42am Oct 12, 2011 3:42am
Quoting Blackship
hi guys,

I've heard that pro fx traders who do not use stop losses and this had contributed much controvesy. Anyone who approve or disapprove please comment
Real pro traders always use stop lose orders. Not using a stop loss order, or not knowing what are the trade's limits means that you don't use a clear trading plan. Professional traders always know what they expect from a trade, including stop loss levels. Some traders don't submit the order to the system, but they know when they want to get out. It does not matter if you put it in the system or not, as long as you know when you need to close the position.
  • #163
  • Oct 14, 2011 9:22am Oct 14, 2011 9:22am
Quoting hefhem911
It seems to me that you do not get what am tyring to explain here. I don't use any stop but when my system tells me to exit, I exit either with a loss or profit.
Ofcourse, I try not to exit at a 1 big loss area.
Part of it is difference of opinion, but if you don't use a stop loss your risk is always what you have in your account... whatever that amount is, and the only way you lose it is margin call. (or broker absconding with it.)

If the account is not over leveraged your own psychology will likely take the loss long before the plat form will. If the account is over leveraged the wrath will be over in the twinkling of an eye.

My main point was that you can't have it both ways and be able to take a 10-30 pip stop manually, mentally or otherwise... unless you close all positions regardless of profit / loss when you go to bed. The market can take off at any time for several hundred pips sometimes.

I'm sure there's alot you're not telling me.

I've been around the block a few times....
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  • #164
  • Oct 24, 2011 8:03am Oct 24, 2011 8:03am
Very interesting discussion. I have seen a lot of people with large accounts to trade withou SL and they were making money, but then it comes the day X and it's all gone. You have to be very capitalized in order to strike the market this way and pyramiding can't go forever, but everyone is different in the market. From my opinion trading without SL is like shooting in a dark room... there is no planning at all...
  • #165
  • Oct 24, 2011 3:21pm Oct 24, 2011 3:21pm
It is true.

Stops are for Investors, not Active Traders. Active Traders are "actively trading the markets." That's our job. That's what we set aside time for each day. Trading is what we do for a living. Why would I want to sit in front of a computer and watch a stop get hit - or a limit for that matter.

The Trader him/her self is the stop and the limit.

The traders that have "figured it out" are those who realize that in order to maintain long term profitability, is to always be in-sync with the market. That means, always being prepared, ready, able and willing to go Long when the market wants to go Long, and go Short when the market wants to go Short. Such trading is antithetical to using a fixed Stop Loss.

Investors use Stops, precisely because they are not Active Traders.

In truth, your next reversal order is by definition, also your next stop level, until you have net a positive profit on the day. Real Traders don't leave the market until they have a positive net profit to book.
Y = MX + B. The most important price level of all.
  • #166
  • Oct 27, 2011 2:55pm Oct 27, 2011 2:55pm
Interesting discussion.
What is the advantage of TA?
It is the ability to quantify risk either based on volatility or setup.

With correct risk, you can position yourself correctly.

So not having a stop means having no risk.

Stops also help in compounding your account.
Without stops, your lot size is always the same.

Without stops, you risk profile will always change.
  • #167
  • Oct 28, 2011 12:05pm Oct 28, 2011 12:05pm
Since I'm a newbie in FX trading I prefer to use SL to guard myself against possible unwanted price fluctuations. Yes, I've heard about advanced techniques such as locks but I haven't figured out how to use them yet. For now SL is the most convenient method of limiting the risk for me.
  • #168
  • Oct 28, 2011 12:30pm Oct 28, 2011 12:30pm
Seriously USE STOP LOSSES.

I use to scalp for the 1-5 pips with stop loss at margin call, I had 100% hit rate for a long time, My system was good enough to use with a 15 pip stop and I'd still get 75-80% wins.

Recently on this rip your face rally in Risk and Even with 10:1 leverage I got stopped out for 300 pips, I was trading about $30-$40/pip and lost 50% of my account.

Now the story doesn't end there I then increased leverage and then absolutely dicked the rest of the account 20,000 to as good as 0 in 2 weeks.

Check it https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/jeremyws2/132232

Not great huh (plus as a 16 y/o 20k is a lot of money.)

But oh well, got loads left and its not gonna stop me from trading just a dent in my grand plan

Jeremy.
  • #169
  • Oct 28, 2011 12:47pm Oct 28, 2011 12:47pm
Quoting JeremyWS
Seriously USE STOP LOSSES.

I use to scalp for the 1-5 pips with stop loss at margin call, I had 100% hit rate for a long time, My system was good enough to use with a 15 pip stop and I'd still get 75-80% wins.

Recently on this rip your face rally in Risk and Even with 10:1 leverage I got stopped out for 300 pips, I was trading about $30-$40/pip and lost 50% of my account.

Now the story doesn't end there I then increased leverage and then absolutely dicked the rest of the account 20,000 to as good as 0 in 2 weeks.

Check it https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/jeremyws2/132232

Not...
i dont use sl at all J, and im doing fine. its all style and risk management and MM.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #170
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:04pm Oct 28, 2011 3:04pm
Quoting bumapatria
i dont use sl at all J, and im doing fine. its all style and risk management and MM.
Says the kid playing with a demo acct...
  • #171
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:14pm Oct 28, 2011 3:14pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
Says the kid playing with a demo acct...
whos going live in 4 days go to my thread then, all live results from then on
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #172
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:17pm Oct 28, 2011 3:17pm
Quoting bumapatria
whos going live in 4 days go to my thread then, all live results from then on
Not to bothered only lost 20k could be worse, atleast i've learnt my mistake about trading on my phone at school for 1 pip during break, but hey, i made a mistake. Im only human.
  • #173
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:23pm Oct 28, 2011 3:23pm
Quoting JeremyWS
Not to bothered only lost 20k could be worse, atleast i've learnt my mistake about trading on my phone at school for 1 pip during break, but hey, i made a mistake. Im only human.
hahaaha! cool man... hehe..

u gotta hangout in my thread more... i swear its getting really lonely. ur 16 so we kinda sorta on the same page.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #174
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:30pm Oct 28, 2011 3:30pm
Quoting bumapatria
hahaaha! cool man... hehe..

u gotta hangout in my thread more... i swear its getting really lonely. ur 16 so we kinda sorta on the same page.
yeah maybe soon, just clearing my head after a 20k lost, just on a bad run so won't be trading for a week or so.
  • #175
  • Oct 28, 2011 3:34pm Oct 28, 2011 3:34pm
Quoting JeremyWS
yeah maybe soon, just clearing my head after a 20k lost, just on a bad run so won't be trading for a week or so.
jeremy i hope ur emotionals arent hit that bad, which i know it is. mine was when i blew my whole account once. its a pivotal point never give up. always learn more from mistakes. analyze, redo, recycle. its a lesson to be learnt look at that loss as something positive. u will re wake as a different trader once u learn and adapt.
every success is closer to failure,
yet every failure is close to success.

you know the flaw?

its our choice to make it success frm the failure, and failure from success. we make them. we are the cause, they are just effect. You will know yourself more after this, become stronger and learn. if you will it.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #176
  • Oct 28, 2011 4:05pm Oct 28, 2011 4:05pm
Quoting JeremyWS
Seriously USE STOP LOSSES.

I use to scalp for the 1-5 pips with stop loss at margin call, I had 100% hit rate for a long time, My system was good enough to use with a 15 pip stop and I'd still get 75-80% wins.

Recently on this rip your face rally in Risk and Even with 10:1 leverage I got stopped out for 300 pips, I was trading about $30-$40/pip and lost 50% of my account.

Now the story doesn't end there I then increased leverage and then absolutely dicked the rest of the account 20,000 to as good as 0 in 2 weeks.

Check it https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/jeremyws2/132232...
i feel you on that one. I was up 25k for the month. the last two days i was down over 30k, up about 30k, now lost 27k...net 3k for the month...

fckin week...
  • #177
  • Oct 28, 2011 4:12pm Oct 28, 2011 4:12pm
Always use stops. Like others have said here learn to read the charts and the markets.

Take what the markets give you, don't try to extract what you need, that is a hiding to nothing.

Set your stops, my maximum loss is ALWAYS 1%, it is a business not a game.
  • #178
  • Oct 28, 2011 4:42pm Oct 28, 2011 4:42pm
Quoting jag1966
Always use stops. Like others have said here learn to read the charts and the markets.

Take what the markets give you, don't try to extract what you need, that is a hiding to nothing.

Set your stops, my maximum loss is ALWAYS 1%, it is a business not a game.
ever thought of controlling a 4% making it into 1%? i just did yesterday its now at 0.75% around there still open trades.

no stops at all. i know is not a game. its style and preference. thats all.
stops are not my style, it prevents me from controlling loss. it makes it striaght a loss, no win when u close. i can close losing trades but i always look to net the profit and make NET profit.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #179
  • Oct 28, 2011 5:07pm Oct 28, 2011 5:07pm
Quoting dhtradingfx
Interesting discussion.
What is the advantage of TA?
It is the ability to quantify risk either based on volatility or setup.

With correct risk, you can position yourself correctly.

So not having a stop means having no risk.

Stops also help in compounding your account.
Without stops, your lot size is always the same.

Without stops, you risk profile will always change.
use it to your advantage so that its not still and frozen in place. be fluid, be like water. rigidity kills.
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #180
  • Oct 28, 2011 8:52pm Oct 28, 2011 8:52pm
Quoting bumapatria
whos going live in 4 days go to my thread then, all live results from then on
Im sure it wont be long until you back on demo.
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