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  • #101
  • Oct 17, 2011 6:18am Oct 17, 2011 6:18am
Quoting nasir.khan
I dont get your point.

I am advising to learn the behavior of traders for what they expect of Fundamental outcomes (news announcements) and how act before and react after the outcomes.

This kind of trading is (as you said) is different from the actual fundamental trading and the trends consist of 2hrs to couple of weeks as opposed to month-year long cycles of fundies.

Profits are decent and quick. If you have done your homework right than you should never loose cause you are taking advantage of other people's foolies, their...
Thanks for clarifying what you wrote, but what I was getting at is the difference between Fundamental trading and News trading. Exactly as you wrote, News trading is trading expectations, fear and greed; but Fundamental trading is categorically different - it's following the big picture, long-term flow of money. Like you wrote in your last paragraph, I think News trading is all about getting into the heads of other traders at that moment, but Fundamental trading is about studying why money is steadily flowing from currency A to currency B, and most of the time News announcements don't disrupt this flow for very long.
  • #102
  • Oct 17, 2011 6:21am Oct 17, 2011 6:21am
Finoli, look at all of these people fighting, in one case viciously, over how YOU should be trading.
  • #103
  • Oct 17, 2011 10:26am Oct 17, 2011 10:26am
Quoting Rob Mondave
Finoli, look at all of these people fighting, in one case viciously, over how YOU should be trading.
Yes, somewhat amusing at times
I understand them though, if someone is correcting me about something I'm really good at, I often get frustrated and come up with tons of reasons that they are wrong etc.

In the end it often clears up that both are right, or both are wrong

Quoting highlander2
Watch those videos i just posted, Mark talks about this in detail.
Where did you post them?


Finoli
  • #104
  • Oct 17, 2011 10:43am Oct 17, 2011 10:43am
follow this link-

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...17#post4378017
  • #105
  • Oct 17, 2011 10:44am Oct 17, 2011 10:44am
When market opened this week, I sold E/U.
A few hourst later, I closed due to fear.

This is price now: (red label, close. green label, open)
Attached Image
  • #106
  • Oct 17, 2011 10:53am Oct 17, 2011 10:53am
Quoting Finoli
When market opened this week, I sold E/U.
A few hourst later, I closed due to fear.

This is price now: (red label, close. green label, open)
A simple exercise... Figure out your entry, exit, and initial stop loss. Set a take profit at 75% of your exit target. Walk away. Let the trade happen win or lose. No touching it at all other than maybe moving your s/l to b/e once the trade has achieved 50% of the initial exit target.

Make execution a habit. Make accepting the outcome a habit. Trade pennies a pip if necessary to help reduce the anxiety.

Another tidbit... redefine what it means to be a winning/loser trader. No single trade should define you.

I consider myself a winning trader when I execute trades according to my plan whether they end up profitable or not. Because the numbers are on my side, proper execution almost guarantees net profitability over time.
  • #107
  • Oct 17, 2011 10:56am Oct 17, 2011 10:56am
Quoting JR97
A simple exercise... Figure out your entry, exit, and initial stop loss. Set a take profit at 75% of your exit target. Walk away. Let the trade happen win or lose. No touching it at all other than maybe moving your s/l to b/e once the trade has achieved 50% of the initial exit target.

Make execution a habit. Make accepting the outcome a habit. Trade pennies a pip if necessary to help reduce the anxiety.

Another tidbit... redefine what it means to be a winning/loser trader. No single trade should define you.

I consider myself a winning...
I 100% agree with you

Also having set times throughout the day where you check the market is a good way of creating discipline. imho
  • #108
  • Oct 17, 2011 1:12pm Oct 17, 2011 1:12pm
all i have to say is that trading isnt as hard as people make it out to be....i think its the people who have made themselves too complex.......practise practise practise...keep a journal of your winners and losers..learn the dos and the donts...until a system begins to crystallize....wish you all the best.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #109
  • Oct 17, 2011 2:19pm Oct 17, 2011 2:19pm
Quoting pemully
all i have to say is that trading isnt as hard as people make it out to be....i think its the people who have made themselves too complex.......practise practise practise...keep a journal of your winners and losers..learn the dos and the donts...until a system begins to crystallize....wish you all the best.
Thank you.

I have small question regarding journals..
Should I document EVERY trade? Even like the ones I opened, realized was a bad one, then closed a few minutes later? Or should I just keep track of the ones e.g. hitting stops or profits?
  • #110
  • Oct 17, 2011 2:42pm Oct 17, 2011 2:42pm
its not neccessary to keep a record of every trade....put down your significant winners and losers ...study them and over time you will start to find similarities that will start giving you an edge.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #111
  • Edited 3:17pm Oct 17, 2011 3:02pm | Edited 3:17pm
if you take 20 trades a day, writing a paragraph for each trade is obviously unrealistic, but take screen shots and do what you can.

I good diary desktop app is something called "idailydiary" google it, you wont be disappointed! (get the free version)

Only other tip

If you will only be placing 10 or less LIVE trades a week, try this out-

Take your live trades in your live account (duh!) simply do the best you can here as you obviously will

But, also take the exact same trades in a demo account, as well as trades perhaps you did not have the confidence to take in your real one.

Why?

Because this will show you EXACTLY how much your emotions are affecing your ability to trade.

You may find (like you did earlier today) that you are forced to bail on trades out of fear of loss or losing profit. Because you wont have any emotion in your demo account, you will be-able to let your trades play out (you would have left todays trade on in your demo account), reach the target and you will see exactly how could you could be trading the exact same setups in demo and in live.

Most people demo trade for a while then go live, but running both accounts side by side you can compare how well you are doing to how well you could be doing if there were no emotions involved.

If you read mark douglas, he calls this the "profit gap"

However this is a chore and most people cant be bothered with this type of leg work. but there is no short cut to becoming a profitable trader, exercises like this although boring, will provide valuable feed back for the trader on their emotional state and they can develop confidence in their methodology.

You could of course lose in both accounts, in which case i suspect your methods need altering.

Always go the extra mile and take steps to put yourself ahead of all the dummies that are out there, and you will start to gain an edge over the rest of the market participants.

good luck

h2
  • #112
  • Oct 17, 2011 3:31pm Oct 17, 2011 3:31pm
There is a lot of fuzz about using DEMO acounts,
I like to share my view on Demos,
Demo acounts are good to test out your strategies,
and they are good to learn what all the buttons do,
different order types charting etc etc,
however, they are NOT good to use learning how to trade,
the reason why I say that is because in paper trading,
there is no fear and no greed, and this is the most important thing
you must learn to master if you want to become a good trader.
so thats why Im against using Demos to learn the trade.
if you learn by Demo only, the day you go live,
I can guarantie you will loose your shirt.
I suggest to open a small micro acount,
that way you can get the taste of fear and greed
while still only risking a very small capital.
some brokers let you open a micro acount for just 50 bux.
thats the best way to learn.
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #113
  • Oct 17, 2011 3:39pm Oct 17, 2011 3:39pm
Quoting highlander2
if you take 20 trades a day, writing a paragraph for each trade is obviously unrealistic, but take screen shots and do what you can.

I good diary desktop app is something called "idailydiary" google it, you wont be disappointed! (get the free version)

Only other tip

If you will only be placing 10 or less LIVE trades a week, try this out-

Take your live trades in your live account (duh!) simply do the best you can here as you obviously will

But, also take the exact same trades in a demo account, as well as trades...
That's a great tip. I think I will try it out

And no, there are no shortcuts..
Today, on a youtube ad, I saw an ad for a broker that said "deposit and get a free eBook! Learn to trade in 20 minutes!"

I laughed my ass off
  • #114
  • Oct 17, 2011 3:41pm Oct 17, 2011 3:41pm
Quoting roughtrader
There is a lot of fuzz about using DEMO acounts,
I like to share my view on Demos,
Demo acounts are good to test out your strategies,
and they are good to learn what all the buttons do,
different order types charting etc etc,
however, they are NOT good to use learning how to trade,
the reason why I say that is because in paper trading,
there is no fear and no greed, and this is the most important thing
you must learn to master if you want to become a good trader.
so thats why Im against using Demos to learn the trade.
if you learn by Demo only,...
I've realized more and more that emotions together with money management make up for at least 60% of trading.
I am going through Mark's book slowly but steadily to help myself control my emotions.


Finoli
  • #115
  • Oct 17, 2011 3:42pm Oct 17, 2011 3:42pm
Quoting pemully
its not neccessary to keep a record of every trade....put down your significant winners and losers ...study them and over time you will start to find similarities that will start giving you an edge.
I see, thank you
It's sounds like such an achievement to 'have an edge'.. maybe it's easier to achieve than one thinks, as long as you learn to control your emotions
  • #116
  • Oct 17, 2011 4:39pm Oct 17, 2011 4:39pm
Quoting Finoli
I've realized more and more that emotions together with money management make up for at least 60% of trading.
I am going through Mark's book slowly but steadily to help myself control my emotions.


Finoli
Just keep in mind that being book smart about it doesn't mean much. It takes actually going through the motions in a real time environment.

I mean, you can be book smart on music theory out the wazoo but you'll sound like @ss if you try to play an instrument you've never played.
  • #117
  • Oct 17, 2011 5:19pm Oct 17, 2011 5:19pm
I have sent this thread over to my little brother (age 14) to read, as I was hoping that if he started learning now, he will have 10 years of trading experience by the time he is my age. Definitely nice to see a young trader, good luck in your endeavors
  • #118
  • Oct 17, 2011 6:25pm Oct 17, 2011 6:25pm
Quoting jwlee7ucla
I have sent this thread over to my little brother (age 14) to read, as I was hoping that if he started learning now, he will have 10 years of trading experience by the time he is my age. Definitely nice to see a young trader, good luck in your endeavors
At that age, just give them a mechanical system and tell them to follow it to the T no deviations. I think it's easier to train someone from scratch who has no preconceptions of the market and idea about all of the possible ways to trade be it indicator based, fundamentals, news, etc.

I've got my 8 year old making trades. He does exactly what I tell him and has no emotional ties to the money whatsoever so there's no psychological or emotional factors to deal with. To him it's just a game.
  • #119
  • Oct 18, 2011 6:49am Oct 18, 2011 6:49am
Quoting JR97
Just keep in mind that being book smart about it doesn't mean much. It takes actually going through the motions in a real time environment.

I mean, you can be book smart on music theory out the wazoo but you'll sound like @ss if you try to play an instrument you've never played.
Yes ofcourse. I have, to begin with, experienced every emotion in the live market (fear, greed etc) and starting to at least read about how to overcome it I think will make a big difference in relation to what time you spend reading.
Taking Mark's theories into practice may be tough, as I may try to stay away from live trading for a while.

But I dunno
  • #120
  • Oct 18, 2011 7:54am Oct 18, 2011 7:54am
forgetting everything you've learned from others about trading and just try to buy low & sell high yourself? Since I did so, my trading has much improved.. and gotten quite boring. lol

IMO, If you're experiencing fear and greed then you are risking too much on trades.
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