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How do I move forward?

  • #21
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:47pm Oct 12, 2011 10:47pm
Quoting tradestar1
Find a good mentor.
I dunno bout this, I've had a couple of mentors in the past and the trouble was it was already a couple of years into my trading where I'd already developed my own beliefs knowledge base etc. Long story short it did nothing for me even though one of the guys was a retired and accomplished trader. I think the "long road" of trial and error is invaluable if you have the patience to do it. Slowly all that mystic sh*t comes together to form a clear picture of how to trade correctly. When you blindly follow the directions of someone else you just don't have the background knowledge of exactly how those directions came to be and I feel like this is the most important part of the whole thing. Just thinking out loud from my own experience. I guess at the very least a mentor can save you a couple of years by pointing you in the right direction (according to them) but that's the problem, you will be manhandled into someone else's belief structure, without knowing exactly how you got there in the first place. Just thinking, I'm sure someone who has been mentored with positive results can correct me.

Learning how to learn and survive on your own is very important for a number of reasons.
Time hides Nothing
  • #22
  • Edited 3:48am Oct 13, 2011 1:03am | Edited 3:48am
Quoting Finoli
So that is it. I wanna have a lot of money. I wanna be able to see something awesome and expensive on some random page and just order it without hesitating. I wanna be able to live wherever I want. I wanna be able to be whoever I want.
Everybody who comes to the market wants these things but very few get it. And yet it is said that every trader gets what they want from the market. It follows that the reason most people lose is because that happens to be what they really want.

Forget about what you want, Consider the possibility that you do not actually know the true answer to that question, much less how to get it. Be grateful for what you have now, youth, health, food, love, opportunity etc, to name a few. Only this way can you be happy and content in the present moment. The present moment is the only time that actually exists.

Trading is mostly psychology. You must be happy and content right now when you come to market. If you are happy and content, then you don't actually want anything. If you don't want anything then it doesn't matter if you win or lose. If winning and losing doesn't matter to you, you are ready to trade or, not trade. That is freedom, game over

Thats a lofty goal, very difficult for most to achieve. It is hard, ugly work. Most come to the market with the intention of avoiding work. They are doomed before they even begin

I know a faster and easier way to achieve this, usually overlooked by new traders - proper risk management. Professional traders risk only around 1% on any trade. It follows that apprentice traders should risk much less while they are learning to be profitable.

Unprofessional traders (aka gamblers) risk anything up to their entire account. Most market participants fall into this category. The recent drop in gold prices was due to margin call on greedy traders believing it was a sure thing and going all in. You can take money from these traders or you can join them by not managing your risk.

With your risk managed and no expectations or concerns about the result, you will have a clearer perception of the market. From this, accurate judgments can be made about market conditions, direction and timing. It is not rocket science and you only need to be right 40% with 1:2 rr to be very profitable. With experience your performance will improve, but it does take time

After 6 years, I am at 0.5% risk. I have just over 50% hit rate on average with only 1:1.3 risk/reward. That is more than enough for me to be the house and take money from the market most days. I could have got here much sooner if I didnt take so long to manage my risk properly

heres how the numbers panned out today

7 trades
5 wins
2 lose
3% net return
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BTC Return This Year: na
  • #23
  • Oct 13, 2011 1:05am Oct 13, 2011 1:05am
"All of the above and more" would be best option.
  • #24
  • Oct 13, 2011 1:08am Oct 13, 2011 1:08am
Quoting Finoli
Hi,

I have started a bunch of posts lately, when they are all in some way trying to seek out the answer to this one; how do I move forward?

I am 16 and have been trading and studying Forex on and off for about 2 years. I am still not a profitable trader.
Don't take me wrong, I didn't expect to be able to make a living trading Forex after 2 years, but why not keep moving forward if I can?

So I ask you this.. what's the next step? Trading demo for 5 hours a day? Trading LIVE for 5 hours a day? Reading a bunch of books? Attending to webinars?...
Toil and moil, thou shalt get there for sure!!! When you graduate with a business/economics degree hopefully from a decent university, the best way to move forward is by joining a financial company where substantial trading experience can be obtained. Unfortunately I really don't see some other ways around this. Things like demo trading/mentor program/reading books and such almost tell you nothing about how the market actually works, you must work along with people who do understand the game for a lengthy period in order to become a highly skilled forex trader. In the end it's pretty much depended on what you want to achieve out of trading: become a millionaire star trader or just an ordinary trader picking up market scraps?

My advice: focus only on the main issue, and forget about all the useless subroutines.
  • #25
  • Oct 13, 2011 1:44am Oct 13, 2011 1:44am
Quoting Finoli
Hi,

I have started a bunch of posts lately, when they are all in some way trying to seek out the answer to this one; how do I move forward?

I am 16 and have been trading and studying Forex on and off for about 2 years. I am still not a profitable trader.
Don't take me wrong, I didn't expect to be able to make a living trading Forex after 2 years, but why not keep moving forward if I can?

So I ask you this.. what's the next step? Trading demo for 5 hours a day? Trading LIVE for 5 hours a day? Reading a bunch of books? Attending to...
I am definitely not a big expert trader ; i make a living from trading forex mainly. So i guess i am just sharing my opinion on your expectations and aspects that may help you achieve your goals.

Whats your financial position currently ? Can you afford $500 account which you are ready to lose?
If yes , start with real acct on microscale .
Where you can trade for pennis micro acct. Oanda is good broker for start since you can start with any small position size adjust your position based on your stop loss money management.

Study charts and long term economic factors like interest rates , unemployment rate , NFP etc.
Main focus should be on technical analysis.
Dont use any indicators other than bar chart , trendlines and fibs.
Study what has happened in history . Look on monthly , weekly and daily charts for the start and dont go below those timeframes uless and untill you are succeessful and making stable returns on daily and above timeframes.
Manage your risk with less than 2% risked at anytime.
Learn from your losing trades .
Make note of your entries, stop losses and targets and reasoning abt each trade .
Try to look at supply and demand areas for better entries.
Dont get in trades for scalps but rather a good swings .

Once you are successful at this you can go on more aggressive approach .

It will take y0u anything from 10000 screenhours /1 year to 20000/screenhours /3 years based on your psychology and inteliigence level.

Just my 2 cents of help .

All the best
BEING PROFESSIONAL IS ALL ABOUT HOW YOU CONTROL FASTEST THING--UR MIND!
  • #26
  • Oct 13, 2011 1:05pm Oct 13, 2011 1:05pm
I'll reiterate; no offense to any of the above posters, but the advice in this thread is the same thing you'll read in 90% of the threads on the first page of this forum and the rookie forum.

There's some very specific advice (use this trading system, look for trades in this area, use 2% max risk, etc.) and very generic advice (you need discipline, you need money management, etc.) that's being given without a clue as to how he trades.

Again, without knowing any details of how you trade, I don't see how most of this will help. The problem(s) holding you back could be very specific, or it could be a more generalized issue.

Why don't we start with how you currently trade? What are your entries and exits based on, and what kind of risk management are you using? Those are the two basic elements of every system, without knowing those two things any advice about how you SHOULD trade SHOULD be thrown out the window.
  • #27
  • Oct 14, 2011 4:22am Oct 14, 2011 4:22am
Quoting Finoli
Hi,

I have started a bunch of posts lately, when they are all in some way trying to seek out the answer to this one; how do I move forward?

I am 16 and have been trading and studying Forex on and off for about 2 years. I am still not a profitable trader.
Don't take me wrong, I didn't expect to be able to make a living trading Forex after 2 years, but why not keep moving forward if I can?

So I ask you this.. what's the next step? Trading demo for 5 hours a day? Trading LIVE for 5 hours a day? Reading a bunch of books? Attending to webinars?...

The best way to move forward is making mistakes and don't give up!

Regards,

Josef
  • #28
  • Oct 14, 2011 5:06am Oct 14, 2011 5:06am
I would say just play around with trading and try to get a feel for how the market is interconnected. With a demo account or a small (like $100 small, try oanda) live account you can goof around until it starts to set in. To speed that along though keep a notebook of your thoughts, observations, and trading highs lows. Really dig into your trading from every angle and see what works and what doesn't and why.

You've got a lot of years ahead of you, don't get hung up on the money, just focus on good trading fundamentals. If you entered a trade on a perfect signal, but lost money, you should stil consider it a "win" and should analyze it from that attitude.

Using a system from here to start out is fine, just really study why it works. From there tweak it to fit your innate style. Eventually you'll come up with a set of rules that make sense to you.

Finally, if you actually enjoy forex from an intellectual perspective, consider studying economics in college (a business degree is basically the new general studies degree though, pursue an actual economics program). If not, then go study what interests you. A degree in something is better then no degree.
  • #29
  • Oct 14, 2011 11:40am Oct 14, 2011 11:40am
First of all, I'd just like to thank you all for taking your time and share your thoughts about this with me.

Second, I see that some wants to know how I trade.
This is it in a nutshell:

I have mainly been trading on H1/H4 charts, often using candlesticks as the main indicator, together with s&r (doji near resistance/support, engulfing near resistance/support etc)

My stops I guess are also based on s&r, although poorly. If i'm long, I tend to put my SL just below last support (this has often not worked, even though the trade eventually went my way)
With my current broker I cannot set my SL anywhere if I want to maintain a risk of only 2% (which would be $2 ) so that may be one of the reasons my SL is sometimes off.

With forexyard (my broker) i have a leverage of 1:200 (not changable) and my smallest lot size is 0.01. This means that if I buy EUR/USD with 0.01 lots, every pip is 10 cents. That means, that if I want to maintain a risk of only 2%, my SL can be only 20 pips from entry. This kinda messes with my trading. As many of you have recommended Oanda, can I use smaller lot size there? Or maybe decrease leverage?

I would more or less quote every single post in this thread, and I may eventually, but I am pretty busy at the moment.

I can honestly say that my risk management is very poor. E.g. a friend of mine told me about a trade with good risk:reward, but the stoploss was big. I took the trade anyway and lost $15 of my $100 account.
Of course, $15 is not a lot of money, but this only prooves that my risk management is poor.
I will indeed work on that.

Finoli

PS. It took some time for me too see your posts because I didnt get any emails when you answered. Will look into that
  • #30
  • Oct 14, 2011 11:57am Oct 14, 2011 11:57am
Oanda uses Units instead of Lots, where 1000 units equals 0.01 lots.
You can go as low as 1 Unit / Trade.

Change ASAP!

Dont view your loss as 15 of 100 in Dollar terms. View it as 15% which is way too much.

Also, you dont need to change the leverage the broker's offering you, just use smaller lot/unit size.

Unless you have an system which works for you, trade 1 Unit only and slowly go for more, maybe add 10 Units for every Month that your in the green and substract 10 for every losing month.

The last thing, dont trade on others recommendations, it's your money.
Never whishing, always trading.
  • #31
  • Oct 14, 2011 1:36pm Oct 14, 2011 1:36pm
Quoting Hova
Oanda uses Units instead of Lots, where 1000 units equals 0.01 lots.
You can go as low as 1 Unit / Trade.
Does Oanda let you trade in MT4? Otherwise I may be a little iffy about it.
  • #32
  • Oct 14, 2011 6:13pm Oct 14, 2011 6:13pm
Quoting Finoli
Does Oanda let you trade in MT4? Otherwise I may be a little iffy about it.
Yes, they have MT4 trading, but the smallest size is 0.01 lots due to how MT4 is wired. I actually use their mobile app along side MT4 to trade when trading less than the minimum size. They also have a web platform (haven't tried it).
  • #33
  • Oct 14, 2011 7:02pm Oct 14, 2011 7:02pm
Quoting Finoli
First of all, I'd just like to thank you all for taking your time and share your thoughts about this with me.

Second, I see that some wants to know how I trade.
This is it in a nutshell:

I have mainly been trading on H1/H4 charts, often using candlesticks as the main indicator, together with s&r (doji near resistance/support, engulfing near resistance/support etc)

My stops I guess are also based on s&r, although poorly. If i'm long, I tend to put my SL just below last support (this has often not worked, even though the trade eventually...
Realistically, you prolly not gonna find answeres from others. Spend some time studying chart. Only solution, imo.
  • #34
  • Oct 14, 2011 9:35pm Oct 14, 2011 9:35pm
I would first try to find a broker you can trade live with, as you don't always have to be so up front with your age to open demo accounts, but to open a real account to trade live is a different story, as you will need proof and validation of some things.

Legitimate brokers have a minimum age requirement to open up your own account, and 16 years old will most likely not meet any broker's minimum.

That being said, continue to trade the demo account. If you get a mentor, make sure they provide proof they are successful...no point in learning from someone else that is learning. I recommend getting a good screen capture program (SnagIt or similar) so that when you get into a trade, you can capture the screen....that way you can look back to see why it did or did not do what you expected....like a visual diary.
  • #35
  • Oct 14, 2011 9:45pm Oct 14, 2011 9:45pm
Quoting Hova
Oanda uses Units instead of Lots, where 1000 units equals 0.01 lots.
You can go as low as 1 Unit / Trade.

Change ASAP!

Dont view your loss as 15 of 100 in Dollar terms. View it as 15% which is way too much.

Also, you dont need to change the leverage the broker's offering you, just use smaller lot/unit size.

Unless you have an system which works for you, trade 1 Unit only and slowly go for more, maybe add 10 Units for every Month that your in the green and substract 10 for every losing month.

The last thing, dont trade on others...
@ Finoli = Absolutely believe this advice in bold above; always work in percentage! Do you think when you, or anyone, has a $100,000 account and loses $15,000, they say, well it is ONLY $15,000?

Some are correct in saying that we cannot teach you to trade, but I know for a fact, we can teach you to manage risk, using position sizing.

Many have the preconception that you just couldn't make much by ONLY risking 2%, please re-read my previous post, and click my signature to learn otherwise.
OPPORTUNITY IS NOWHERE
  • #36
  • Oct 14, 2011 9:59pm Oct 14, 2011 9:59pm
Quoting andri66
Dude..Go to University & graduate in Economy..make forex trading as a hobby ,leisure time while study Economy..Get a job (part time or full time) to fund your trading capital..Good Luck !!
I can tell you as someone who is about to complete an economics degree, that it is entirely useless for profiting from trading.

Understanding the fundamentals is very distracting, unless you are taking a fairly long term view. The fundamentals an unsophisticated trader is working with are probably already priced in. Trying to trade with a bias gets you slaughtered, in fact, sometimes I wish I knew less textbook economics and completely ignored the news, it would make for much better trading. This is a technical playground
"Don't Panic..."
  • #37
  • Oct 15, 2011 12:56am Oct 15, 2011 12:56am
Quoting Finoli
Does Oanda let you trade in MT4? Otherwise I may be a little iffy about it.
You should give the web platform a try, i think its way better than MT4.

On how to move forward : watch charts every day!

No book, no mentor, nothing can teach you more if you just watch and take notes and print out the charts every day.
Never whishing, always trading.
  • #38
  • Oct 15, 2011 1:07am Oct 15, 2011 1:07am
Quoting Halifax
I can tell you as someone who is about to complete an economics degree, that it is entirely useless for profiting from trading.

Understanding the fundamentals is very distracting, unless you are taking a fairly long term view. The fundamentals an unsophisticated trader is working with are probably already priced in. Trying to trade with a bias gets you slaughtered, in fact, sometimes I wish I knew less textbook economics and completely ignored the news, it would make for much better trading. This is a technical playground
I wouldn't say that; I'm sure you that it must make it much easier for you to understand the importance of the difference of losing 2% compared to 15%.

Quick, how much is the difference between losing $15,000 and $2,000?

See, you are way ahead of us high school dropout, wannabe traders

As for the fundamentals, not so much you need to understand them in detail, just be aware of them, bit like Indiana Jones going into a room full of snakes he doesn't know how, why or when they got there, he just knows they ARE there!
OPPORTUNITY IS NOWHERE
  • #39
  • Oct 15, 2011 3:07am Oct 15, 2011 3:07am
If it's money you want there are far easier ways to make it than forex. Unfortunately at 16 you lack the life experience needed to figure it out. That's not being negative to you personally that's just a reality.

You need to network with people, mix with people who have made money, learn to spot opportunities. Look around you and ask why is that being done like that? Could I do it different? Is there a better angle?

To many as the question "HOW" when they should be asking "WHY"

But remember money is just a means to an end. No money can compare to love, family & friends. If you understand this at 16 then you are already richer than most.
  • #40
  • Oct 15, 2011 4:03am Oct 15, 2011 4:03am
Lots of great posting here.

First thing I would suggest is you learn how to program MT4 or MT5 and how to backtest. This will teach you to think in a systematic fashion about trading and understand the probabilities you are dealing with much better.

Second, although a degree in economics will not do you any good, you need to know how monetary policy works, what QE is, etc.

Third you need to spend some time actually understanding what is going on behind your screen. You need to ask and answer questions like "what drives a trend" and "What is a tier one bank" and "How do brokers make money". All we see are little bars going up and down, but the underlying reality is far more complex.

Fourth, I would read up on basic gambling theory. Risk management, high probablity set ups, an edge etc are far older than the forex market. They come from the work of gambling theorists.

Fifth, I would spend time understanding what an edge is. A lot of time. Then I would spend time think about how to get an edge. And I would be greedy. The more, the better.

Sixth, I would spend some time trying to understand market psycology. Trading with the trend gives you an edge, but market psycology drives the trend (in the medium term).

Seventh, I would test out different systems on demo. Trading live is important. But a demo allows you to trade in a low pressure environment which is important when you want to learn basic skills.

Eight, learn about your psycology and how to calm your mind.

Finally, I would ask myself if I really wanted to do all the work required to become a successful trader. There are easier ways to make a living.

Good luck
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
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