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trading without rules

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 2, 2011 11:59am Oct 2, 2011 11:59am
hi all

i am starting this thread to see if there is anyone who has a different view of the market like i have .....

i mean trading without rules , without checking the past to read the future with lagging indicators .

i am a musician , i like trading and i don't like rules so much .

i only respect a strong money management very much, i think it's the most important part of trading .

Market is bidirectional , once you have placed a trade market will be with you or against you .

What i am trying to develop and to discover is a good way of exiting bad trades with profit or at least break even .

. this is what i do :

i check the trend ....and try to follow it .

- i don't use stop losses, since i use very small amount of my money .
- In case the trade is against me i hedge: with correlation ( eur usd with usdchf or aud usd ) or with the same pair opening a double opposite position, i am in itay, i can do it ....

- my goal is to make 2-3% a day , and honestly i always do it.

i watch the chart on h1 timeframe , if it goes up i buy , and if it goes down i sell .

i put a stop at breakeven if i consider that i am in a good trend , and i open new positions if i am right .

no lagging indicators, no trend line, no s/r , fibonacci and so on.

market does whatever he wants, i follow him...
  • #2
  • Oct 2, 2011 12:08pm Oct 2, 2011 12:08pm
every trader when they start out and has a few good trades thinks the same way you do, then reality kicks you hard in the behind.

keep on trading and you will slowly but surly learn what is a valid technique and what isnt, only thru trial and error can one learn to trade.
  • #3
  • Oct 2, 2011 12:22pm Oct 2, 2011 12:22pm
Hedge212 is right. I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but it's good that you're thinking and you're on the right track. Indicators aren't evil - some trade well with them, some don't; some trade well without them, some don't.

If you continue to trade the way you are now, you'll probably find that trendlines, moving averages and multiple time frames will help you tell the difference between a trend pullback and a trend reversal.

And stop hedging. If it goes against you by a certain amount, close and wait for a new setup.

Best wishes,

Rob
  • #4
  • Oct 2, 2011 2:46pm Oct 2, 2011 2:46pm
ok

i have a lot of experience in trading , i tried hundreds of ea's, and developed several method...and burned several accounts .
i am here like all of you to understand better .

everyone look for his edge in trading .
My edge is to recover the bad trades , just like a coin toss they are roughly 50 % .....

i have my way to recover from bad trades, i was trying to look for others.....and it's not simple.....
  • #5
  • Oct 2, 2011 6:06pm Oct 2, 2011 6:06pm
So, from a money perspective, if you're consistently making 2%-3% per day, that's roughly 500%-700% per year, figuring almost 250 trading days. How many years until you're a millionaire? 3 or 4? Just keep doing what you're doing.

From a trading skill perspective, it seems like your approach might be benefiting from your bad trades. Based on the general description of your approach, you might need to fundamentally change your entry and exit decisions in order to achieve your goal, which would likely hurt your daily returns.

In other words, again, based on your general description, if you're getting these returns with your current approach, you're probably stuck with it.
  • #6
  • Oct 2, 2011 7:34pm Oct 2, 2011 7:34pm
Quoting tarrini65
hi all

i am starting this thread to see if there is anyone who has a different view of the market like i have .....

i mean trading without rules , without checking the past to read the future with lagging indicators .

i am a musician , i like trading and i don't like rules so much .

i only respect a strong money management very much, i think it's the most important part of trading .

Market is bidirectional , once you have placed a trade market will be with you or against you .

What i am trying to develop and to discover is a good way of...
If you will re-read your post it seems that you are already beginning to establish rules. I mean seriously, re-read your post.
  • #7
  • Oct 2, 2011 7:45pm Oct 2, 2011 7:45pm
Quoting egadsforex
If you will re-read your post it seems that you are already beginning to establish rules. I mean seriously, re-read your post.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #8
  • Oct 2, 2011 7:59pm Oct 2, 2011 7:59pm
Quoting bluesteele
There it is again !!!! bs is STILL BS !! He's up to 5 smiley buddies now.

Wow ?
  • #9
  • Oct 2, 2011 8:13pm Oct 2, 2011 8:13pm
Quoting egadsforex
There it is again !!!! bs is STILL BS !! He's up to 5 smiley buddies now.

Wow ?
There cheery little critters arent they?

Rules 100% yes. SL 100% yes ... But discretion always. Which is the reason EA's don't work.
You can't program the discretion factor in trading.

Tarrini may I suggest NanningBobs he is the guru on trading your way out of your losses through his
recovery methods. In fact I think he is writing a book about it.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #10
  • Oct 2, 2011 8:25pm Oct 2, 2011 8:25pm
Quoting bluesteele
There cheery little critters arent they?

Rules 100% yes. SL 100% yes ... But discretion always. Which is the reason EA's don't work.
You can't program the discretion factor in trading.

Tarrini may I suggest NanningBobs he is the guru on trading your way out of your losses through his
recovery methods. In fact I think he is writing a book about it.
And again he says that "something" doesn't work. Something that he obviously has little knowledge of.

Something that doesn't work for bs is just BS for everyone else. BS has a closed mind and can't see further than yesterday. He can't "see" plain facts and only knows what "they" have taught him. He has no mind of his own.

He is now likely up to 6 smiley buddies in his replies.
  • #11
  • Oct 2, 2011 8:44pm Oct 2, 2011 8:44pm
Quoting egadsforex
And again he says that "something" doesn't work. Something that he obviously has little knowledge of.

Something that doesn't work for bs is just BS for everyone else. BS has a closed mind and can't see further than yesterday. He can't "see" plain facts and only knows what "they" have taught him. He has no mind of his own.

He is now likely up to 6 smiley buddies in his replies.

Egads

I take it you trade with rules Egads? EA's ?
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #12
  • Oct 2, 2011 9:06pm Oct 2, 2011 9:06pm
Quoting bluesteele
Egads

I take it you trade with rules Egads? EA's ?
Again, what I do is irrelevant. If someone CANNOT believe that there is more than one way to trade, to make money, as YOU seem to believe then there is no use in trying to do anything for you except giving you an endless stream of pointless rebuttals.

I have plenty of time and I feel that I'm up for the challenge. It's a strange thing. When I take money out of the market my animal instinct kicks in in every fiber of my being is alive. When the market takes money from me, my animal instinct kicks in. I feel backed in a corner and every fiber in my being comes alive.

At this moment, YOU are the enemy and every fiber in my being is alive. I wonder again (truly) if you could possibly comprehend that or if you can only reply with smiley buddies? It might be a bit of an overstatement but maybe you can get the gist of my sentiment.

If not, then please reply via smiley buddies. Comprende' ?
  • #13
  • Oct 2, 2011 9:19pm Oct 2, 2011 9:19pm
Quoting egadsforex
Again, what I do is irrelevant. If someone CANNOT believe that there is more than one way to trade, to make money, as YOU seem to believe then there is no use in trying to do anything for you except giving you an endless stream of pointless rebuttals.

I have plenty of time and I feel that I'm up for the challenge. It's a strange thing. When I take money out of the market my animal instinct kicks in in every fiber of my being is alive. When the market takes money from me, my animal instinct kicks in. I feel backed in a corner and every fiber...
Hey Tiger I think you need a big old HUG.
Egads

Really you shouldnt get so emotionally wound up bud! May I recommend the book "The Psychology of Trading".
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #14
  • Oct 2, 2011 9:32pm Oct 2, 2011 9:32pm
Quoting bluesteele
Hey Tiger I think you need a big old HUG.
Egads

Really you shouldnt get so emotionally wound up bud! May I recommend the book "The Psychology of Trading".
Oh !!! I'm not emotional at all. I've read it numerous times.

But have you ever seen a tiger stalking its prey? Going in for the kill. It has no emotion. It knows neither greed nor fear. It only knows "need" and "want". It senses the weak. It wants food and the weak is the easy prey. Its needs fulfilled, now and then it kills for sport because that's what it wants.

Are you beginning to get it now?
  • #15
  • Oct 2, 2011 9:43pm Oct 2, 2011 9:43pm
Quoting egadsforex
Oh !!! I'm not emotional at all. I've read it numerous times.

But have you ever seen a tiger stalking its prey? Going in for the kill. It has no emotion. It knows neither greed nor fear. It only knows "need" and "want". It senses the weak. It wants food and the weak is the easy prey. Its needs fulfilled, now and then it kills for sport because that's what it wants.

Are you beginning to get it now?
here kitty kitty...here kitty kitty....




Meeooow....


But really Egads are you a rules based trader or just trolling and having some fun? You got some sort of LionKing system or something?
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #16
  • Edited Apr 6, 2018 9:16am Oct 2, 2011 10:08pm | Edited Apr 6, 2018 9:16am
Quoting egadsforex
Oh !!! I'm not emotional at all. I've read it numerous times.

But have you ever seen a tiger stalking its prey? Going in for the kill. It has no emotion. It knows neither greed nor fear. It only knows "need" and "want". It senses the weak. It wants food and the weak is the easy prey. Its needs fulfilled, now and then it kills for sport because that's what it wants.

Are you beginning to get it now?
As an afterthought. here is a book entitled "Trading in the Zone" by Mark Douglas. An all time favorite and it's free.

{ copyrighted attachment deleted by staff }
  • #17
  • Oct 3, 2011 1:22am Oct 3, 2011 1:22am
Quoting egadsforex
There it is again !!!! bs is STILL BS !! He's up to 5 smiley buddies now.

Wow ?
maybe you are one of the great students that wait for the right setup at the right hour with 4 or five indi's givin the right signals.....even if they all agree to enter you are always in the coin toss strategy....up or down .

i am serious , learning how to recover from bad trades is an art , i saw the same smiley buddies in nanningbob thread , because he uses no sl , but he is six figures, ....are you ?
  • #18
  • Oct 3, 2011 1:27am Oct 3, 2011 1:27am
Quoting Rob Mondave
So, from a money perspective, if you're consistently making 2%-3% per day, that's roughly 500%-700% per year, figuring almost 250 trading days. How many years until you're a millionaire? 3 or 4? Just keep doing what you're doing.

From a trading skill perspective, it seems like your approach might be benefiting from your bad trades. Based on the general description of your approach, you might need to fundamentally change your entry and exit decisions in order to achieve your goal, which would likely hurt your daily returns.

In other words, again,...

yes , i do it many times, but till now , my mistakes are common, if i place the recovery trade i don't have patience to wait, or in the end i use too much money to close them , gain 90 percent of the times , and the other ten percent i burn the account or go near this , i want to improve this method, sharing my experience with others....
  • #19
  • Last Post: Oct 3, 2011 5:50am Oct 3, 2011 5:50am
Quoting tarrini65
yes , i do it many times, but till now , my mistakes are common, if i place the recovery trade i don't have patience to wait, or in the end i use too much money to close them , gain 90 percent of the times , and the other ten percent i burn the account or go near this , i want to improve this method, sharing my experience with others....
In that case, I suggest focusing on improving entries and exits, rather than recovery trades. If it goes against you, instead of hedging or adding to a losing position, just close the trade.

Every long-term successful trader does it this way: eliminate the big losers, the small losers and small winners cancel each other out, and the profits come from the big winners. The way to do that is to close the position as soon as it's not doing what you want or expect it to do.

And as Paul Tudor Jones says, Losers Average Losers.

Sorry, I know it's not the advice you were looking for.
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