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Are Traders Programmed to Fail?

  • #61
  • Sep 15, 2011 6:04am Sep 15, 2011 6:04am
Quoting Favorite
nubcake, there is a difference: "tying a string around your finger" is free of charge, but the NLP-quacks make small fortunes selling to some poor souls all those sessions, books, seminars, webinars etc. And, of course, "tying a string around your finger" doesn't take a lot of time, but NLP does.

And you personally never used NLP and probably will never use it, right? You're too smart for it, aren't you?

Just like you: just sayin....
I have never paid a cent in my life for NLP or Psyhology Education, as I have never paid a dime for Trading Education or Software. There is a lot of relevant free content on the Internet, and you can also borrow books from any library.

There are more "Quacks" on trading education then on Pshyhology or Mental education. There are Quacks in any science what so ever.

Have You ever heard of "The Way of the turtle"...

You are using Mental Programming either You like it or not. And You are beeing Programmed every day in every aspect of Your life. You can interprete or understand what You want from my words, as well as another will understand something else.

By the way, There is not just Psychology in Trading, there is also Philosophy... What do you think about that?

Doctortyby
  • #62
  • Sep 15, 2011 6:38am Sep 15, 2011 6:38am
Quoting Favorite
Not exactly. The main thought of the topic-starter is: ALL traders have been programmed to be the losers and the only way to stop being a loser is to use NLP...
"Are Traders Programmed to Fail?"...is a question and not a statement... You cannot stop being a loser if you use only NLP, without your trading PLAN, Methods, Systems, Strategies, Money and risk Management, Psychology etc.

I do not expect anybody to agree or to disagree with me on this matter. Traders Programming reffers to trading education mainly and not just your Parents, Life experience, TV, newspapers, mass-media, society, school...

Unfortunately, some traders criticize NLP, and MASS PSYCHOLOGY, and mainly other peoples' views on this subject, without even understanding what Mental Education really is, without beeing well informed.

I personally can tell if someone Knows a little psychology, emotional inteligence and leadership... after a few simple signs of their behaviour:

- When they speak of a certain subject they state their own opinion, with their own arguments, even if they reffer as a start point to their addressees.
- They never criticize their opponents, or their opponents views and statements. They never atack other persons. I believe you cannot have a point just by criticizing the other one's point.
- It's easy to see how a person releases his anger, or frustration, without even realising the reasons for that action are mainly connected to the self-defence mechanism of the Brain.

As long as You let Your Brain take over Your personallity, your true self is altered, you become just a tool of your brain and subconscious, instead of using them as instruments for your success.

Please be kind and answer to me at the two questions:

- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?

Thank you,
Doctortyby
  • #63
  • Sep 15, 2011 6:43am Sep 15, 2011 6:43am
Quoting nubcake
my opinion is probably not in the realm of what the OP meant. but for me, there is something to be said for modern society. there's just lots of garbage filler, and very rarely if ever anything of substance. it's easy to just get lost in life and never accomplish anything. those who speak-up with something of substance are inevitably shot down by the hordes of ignorance. hey, the president or prime minister or king or queen isn't the most intelligent person of that country or wherever... they are their purely because of their parents or because...
You seem to be well informed about NLP, and I strongly believe You have got a glimse of what FREEDOM and SUCCESS really are.

Please be kind and answer to me at the two questions:

- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?

Thank you,
Doctortyby
  • #64
  • Edited 8:26am Sep 15, 2011 7:04am | Edited 8:26am
Quoting Favorite
Yes, but you're NOT saying that TV, newspapers, society, your parents or somebody/something else programmed you to be a Forex-loser even before you started trading?

If you lose focus, you know that it is not because "programming", it is not because your dad didn't buy you a bike when you were 10 years old?
Favorite, my Russian girlfriend wants to know if you're a fan of Andre Mironov.

I haven't yet met anyone who's overcome performance issues through psychology. I spent the first 23 years of my adult life as a professional musician, and being on the audition circuit, giving solo performances in front of hundreds and sometimes thousands of people, and occasionally being on radio and TV, I can tell you more about screwing yourself up than Doctortyby.

To overcome my performance anxiety, I tried everything from self-hypnosis and other psychological tricks (I even spent time with a psychiatrist) to using beta-blocking drugs.

The only thing which ever kept me from psyching myself out on stage was being rock-solid prepared. This is the experience of every musician I know. And the only thing which will help any trader is having a good approach which he knows is rock-solid reliable.
  • #65
  • Sep 15, 2011 8:25am Sep 15, 2011 8:25am
Quoting doctortyby
You seem to be well informed about NLP, and I strongly believe You have got a glimse of what FREEDOM and SUCCESS really are.

Please be kind and answer to me at the two questions:

- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?

Thank you,
Doctortyby
Havent checked out the competition.. but best wishes in the contest enjoy your shiznit
  • #66
  • Sep 15, 2011 9:47am Sep 15, 2011 9:47am
I totally agree that traders are programed to fail and the odds are stacked up against us
letting go of emotions should be considered and treated as a skill . and skills are learned.

Traders can use Trading Plan to execute trades which helps remove emotional disturbances which ultimately helps in flawless entries and exits
  • #67
  • Sep 15, 2011 10:32am Sep 15, 2011 10:32am
Quoting Rob Mondave
The only thing which ever kept me from psyching myself out on stage was being rock-solid prepared. This is the experience of every musician I know. And the only thing which will help any trader is having a good approach which he knows is rock-solid reliable.
YOU ARE RIGHT!

"Be prepared!" as boyscouts say!

Maybe it sounds funny, but it is the only way to succed.

Quoting Rob Mondave
Favorite, my Russian girlfriend wants to know if you're a fan of Andre Mironov.
Rob Mondave, I am a fan of Andrei Mironov and "The Twelve Chairs" is my favorite book, so I just love this image, Andrei Mironov in the role of Ostap Bender!
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #68
  • Sep 15, 2011 10:38am Sep 15, 2011 10:38am
Quoting newyear498
enjoy your shiznit
I never heard this word "shiznit" before, couldn't find it in the "Oxford American Dictionary" neither. It intrigues me!
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #69
  • Edited 11:53am Sep 15, 2011 10:52am | Edited 11:53am
Quoting doctortyby
There are more "Quacks" on trading education then on Pshyhology or Mental education. There are Quacks in any science what so ever.
It doesn't mean that people who are already the victims of the Trading Quacks must also become the victims of the NLP-quacks.


Quoting doctortyby
Have You ever heard of "The Way of the turtle"...
Yes, I heard that the turtles were highly overrated, that their profits were small but their drawdowns were huge. In other words, they were excellent marketers but only moderately good traders.


Quoting doctortyby
You are using Mental Programming either You like it or not. And You are beeing Programmed every day in every aspect of Your life.
It is just your opinion.


Quoting doctortyby
By the way, There is not just Psychology in Trading, there is also Philosophy... What do you think about that?
Doctortyby, I'm not trying to be funny, but I really think that you think too much.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #70
  • Sep 15, 2011 11:00am Sep 15, 2011 11:00am
Quoting doctortyby
As long as You let Your Brain take over Your personallity, your true self is altered, you become just a tool of your brain and subconscious, instead of using them as instruments for your success.

Please be kind and answer to me at the two questions:

- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?

I don't want to be rude, but what a bunch of the NLP's BS!

doctortyby, smart people who really care about their Financial Independence don't discuss it at the forums, they work toward their Financial Independence...
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #71
  • Sep 15, 2011 11:14am Sep 15, 2011 11:14am
Quoting doctortyby
I have never paid a cent in my life for NLP or Psyhology Education, as I have never paid a dime for Trading Education or Software. There is a lot of relevant free content on the Internet, and you can also borrow books from any library.
I was talking not only about money. I said: "And, of course, tying a string around your finger doesn't take a lot of time, but NLP does."

In this life you have to pay for everything, it can cost you money, or time, or both. Psychology/NLP practices are time-consuming and for traders "Time is Money". I feel sorry for poor souls who would waste their time following all this NLP mumbo jumbo instead of focusing on their trading.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #72
  • Sep 15, 2011 11:18am Sep 15, 2011 11:18am
Doctortyby, have you noticed: the moderators moved your thread from "Trading Discussions" into "Commercial Forum"... That means a lot.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #73
  • Sep 15, 2011 1:23pm Sep 15, 2011 1:23pm
here in forex factory we like to shut down things and argue, enter into a debate, it is wise to listen to everyone, but the wise man makes his own decisions.

NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) was big in the 80"s however alot of scientific publications, and research has shed some light in the matter, the core belief of NLP is that the brain can be Programmed (trained, taught) by the vehicle of how we organize our ideas and interpret our world which is language.

although one can dominate the mind, and be able to execute according to our observations, i dare say emotions, intuition, at times save us from a bad position, i agree that experience is king.

and as far as being able to execute confidence in our plan is necessary. if psychology was the most important factors the EA and Robots would be very profitable

the sound trading plan comes first, once this is trusted, and confidence in our abilities develope, THEN psychology to trust ourselves comes, not the other way around.

i can follow something till my account blows to pieces, i my psychology would be there, and my execution too. however wrong plan = blown account
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #74
  • Sep 15, 2011 1:36pm Sep 15, 2011 1:36pm
Quoting doctortyby
I've written this article: "Are Retail Traders Programmed to Lose from the Start!", and I've posted this article on an Article Contest on another site.
If the subject has any meaning to you or another trader, you read it and you like it or not. You are free to reply or not.
This article is a protest of mine against the poor and false mental education for financial traders when they begin to learn the financial markets....
I have already obtained some very important answers from this thread.
And I think that "commercial" comes from "commerce" which involves selling, trading or an exchange of an merchandise. Am I selling a product without knowing it?...

Seems that Traders are indeed "Mentally Programmed to fail", and to be SELFISH with sharing knowledge and experience with another... Selfishness denotes an excessive or exclusive concern with oneself, and as such it exceeds mere self interest or self concern.



Although there have been 4700 views of this thread untill now, No one ansewered my two questions:
- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?


Why is that?
Could that be because most traders don't even know what freedom is?
Could that be that Successfull traders that have already obtained Financial Freedom through trading, do not agree to share that piece of information.
Could that be because Most traders haven't obtained that Freedom?


Even Silence is a Good Response.
PS: Although I've been smiling all the time, I've never been joking during this thread.

To Your Success,
Doctortyby
  • #75
  • Sep 15, 2011 1:39pm Sep 15, 2011 1:39pm
I forgot to thank You guys for all your interest and comments to this thread.
Even criticize is welcomed because I don't take it personally, and I try not to get "emotionally envolved".

Thank You,
Doctortyby
  • #76
  • Sep 15, 2011 1:52pm Sep 15, 2011 1:52pm
Quoting doctortyby
I have already obtained some very important answers from this thread.
And I think that "commercial" comes from "commerce" which involves selling, trading or an exchange of an merchandise. Am I selling a product without knowing it?...

Seems that Traders are indeed "Mentally Programmed to fail", and to be SELFISH with sharing knowledge and experience with another... Selfishness denotes an excessive or exclusive concern with oneself, and as such it exceeds mere self interest or self concern.



Although there have...

FREEDOM: Liberty, to many people means different things, to me it means independence of financial factors, to be able to make a comfortable living, and have the ability to retain purchasing power. to be able to have an income despite the number of patients i see a day, or the number of hours i work at the hospital. even if my career is not generating revenue through unemployment or what not. i want to have the ability to sustain my expenses, and not only that but to work for the pleasure of helping human beings get better not to pay off my bills.


have i been able to gain freedom through trading: not yet, but i will, its a matter of time now. however i have lost freedom as i have to be more aware of economic factors, and analyse opportunities in the market as they arise. i have lost leisure time, and relaxation at my CHOOSING to gain FINANCIAL FREEDOM.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #77
  • Sep 15, 2011 1:59pm Sep 15, 2011 1:59pm
Quoting doctortyby
Although there have been 4700 views of this thread untill now, No one ansewered my two questions:
- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?


Why is that?
Could that be because most traders don't even know what freedom is?
Could that be that Successfull traders that have already obtained Financial Freedom through trading, do not agree to share that piece of information.
Could that be because Most traders haven't obtained that Freedom?


Even Silence is a Good Response....
doctortyby, I already explained it to you:

Quoting Favorite
smart people who really care about their Financial Independence don't discuss it at the forums, they work toward their Financial Independence...
But there are some other reasons:

- people usually don't discuss their private matters and their finances with complete strangers

- people usually don't discuss their private matters and their finances publicly

- trading is a very lonely business

- money likes silence

- you want people to answer these questions, but nobody cares about what you want (as a matter of fact nobody gives a rat's ass, Pardon my French)
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #78
  • Sep 15, 2011 2:04pm Sep 15, 2011 2:04pm
Quoting the redlion
FREEDOM: Liberty, to many people means different things, to me it means independence of financial factors, to be able to make a comfortable living, and have the ability to retain purchasing power. to be able to have an income despite the number of patients i see a day, or the number of hours i work at the hospital. even if my career is not generating revenue through unemployment or what not. i want to have the ability to sustain my expenses, and not only that but to work for the pleasure of helping human beings get better not to pay off my bills....
Thank You REDLION for your response,
This kind of sincere answers I'm looking for. You may already be approching Freedom (at least from a Spiritual and Mental point of view).
I agree with You on the Financiall Freedom gaining through forex... How can something that could offer you freedom, take you freedom away??

Guys think of it this way: How much money do You need to sustain your living comfort and needs for the rest of your life, if you stop working from tommorow??
Do You really need money to be free? Or are you free when You don't really need money, when the other humans are all that you need and all that it matters? Could you be more successfull at trading than(it will be just passion)?

Thank You again,
Doctortyby
  • #79
  • Sep 15, 2011 2:13pm Sep 15, 2011 2:13pm
Removed link to my article, because it was considered ""commercial", added 2 important questions
  • #80
  • Sep 15, 2011 2:19pm Sep 15, 2011 2:19pm
Quoting Favorite
doctortyby, I already explained it to you:



But there are some other reasons:

- people usually don't discuss their private matters and their finances with complete strangers

- people usually don't discuss their private matters and their finances publicly

- trading is a very lonely business

- money likes silence

- you want people to answer these questions, but nobody cares about what you want (as a matter of fact nobody gives a rat's ass, Pardon my French)
It's just Your opinion Favorite. And I clearly understood Your opinion from Your previous posts.
I asked about FREEDOM, and not about bank accounts, or about investment money and personal finances details.

If MONEY LIKES SILENCE, it means MONEY USES YOU, not that YOU use the money... and then You cand have as much money as you can get and You will never be happy or free.

That doesn't mean I do not respect Your opinion.
It's JUST YOUR OPINION. NOT EVERYBODIES.

Have a great Trading Day,
Doctortyby
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