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Are Traders Programmed to Fail?

  • #41
  • Sep 14, 2011 8:28am Sep 14, 2011 8:28am
In order to GET FINANCIAL FREEDOM, you need to have savings of at least 1.000.000 $... to sustain your living comfort for the next 50 years (in normal conditions and with inflation protection for your savings).

So, if you want to THINK BIG... you need to think how you can get to 1.000.000$ (at least) FOR STARTER... But wait, let's say you have 500$ to START with... That means that if your goal is to win a 5% monthly from your account, in 5 years time you will have 5.000$... That's acceptable I quess for a Part-Time Trader...(5% profit per month is a very good return in most traders opinion)

Make Real Money for Your FINANCIAL FREEDOM.
Educate Yourself, and Prepare yourself for SUCCESS.

To Your Success,
Doctortyby
  • #42
  • Sep 14, 2011 11:26am Sep 14, 2011 11:26am
Hello Traders,

I've Tried it All: employee, self-employed, entrepreneurship, investing for profit (real-estate, financial), non-profit team work... And from every little aspect of my professional past I've learned something about people and money, and I've Become an Open-Minded FREE Human Beeing, who tries to obtain Mental and Spiritual fulfilment, Through Other People FREEDOM Leadership.
I've been trading for about 1 Year in Forex Market, Commodities and Stock Indices, although I have followed the Stock Market and Foreign Exchange for the last 4 Years. I would have started to Trade earlier but I was too busy with my Real Estate Investment business.

Since I've started Trading I've seen most of Full Time PRO Traders, trying to take advantage of Newbies, and getting enough money to "pay their expenses and a little extra profit", instead of concentrating of that what really matters: Financial Markets with a Good Risk and Money Management, is one of the most profitable Ways to Gain FINANCIAL FREEDOM. Most People don't even now what FREEDOM is...

So I ask You two questions:

- WHAT DOES FREEDOM MEAN FOR YOU?
and
- HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO GAIN FINANCIAL FREEDOM THROUGH TRADING?

To Your Success,
Doctortyby
  • #43
  • Sep 14, 2011 3:32pm Sep 14, 2011 3:32pm
I don't want to offend anybody, but all this NLP/Psychology mumbo jumbo just distracts the new traders from the stuff that is REALLY important. If you have a good trading system, a good money management and FOLLOW YOUR RULES - then you will make money. Otherwise you will lose money, just that simple, and there's no NLP or psychological trick that would help you.

And if somebody thinks that he fails as a trader because his mommy left him alone for a couple of hours when he was four years old or something like this - then he's just not going to make it as a trader, the trading is NOT for everybody and it is certainly NOT for people with this kind of psychological profile.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #44
  • Sep 14, 2011 3:50pm Sep 14, 2011 3:50pm
Quoting Rob Mondave
Most traders fail, not because they're pre-programmed, not because their thinking is altered or distorted, but simply because they haven't learned the skill set required to trade before they give up, either voluntarily out of frustration or involuntarily from being out of money.

Trying to find underlying psychological issues is missing the forest through the trees.
Well said!
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #45
  • Sep 14, 2011 4:23pm Sep 14, 2011 4:23pm
Quoting Favorite
I don't want to offend anybody, but all this NLP/Psychology mumbo jumbo just distracts the new traders from the stuff that is REALLY important. If you have a good trading system, a good money management and FOLLOW YOUR RULES - then you will make money. Otherwise you will lose money, just that simple, and there's no NLP or psychological trick that would help you.

And if somebody thinks that he fails as a trader because his mommy left him alone for a couple of hours when he was four years old or something like this - then he's just not going...
Hello Favorite,

You are right when You say that New Traders need good trading systems, good money managament and to stick to their trading plan. THAT IS A MUST

But trading psychology helps traders after they pass that technical point in trading education. You cannot forget about "Risk On/Risk OFF", "Risk Adversion/Risk Appetite" Rules when trading, FEAR abd GREED, and almost every aspect of Fundamentals links to Market Psychology and Sentiment.(but Mass Psychology affects your trading much more deeper than this)

If someone trades only with Technical Analysis based just on a system, he trades just like a trading robot, and he will be successfull untill market conditions change. Also if someone trades Intraday based only on Technicals he will more often lose due to vollatility and spikes, then longer time frames.(where Technical analysis is more appropriate).

In my article I said trade 100% LOGICALLY, and not 100% technically... Logic helps you see clearly the Emotional Trading of the Masses... I expected more contended replies from Professional Traders to this subject, who could have helped new traders to really succeed in trading. (not to "hang on" from one month to another)
TRADE WITHOUT EMOTIONS AND KEEP EMOTIONS FOR THE ART OF TRADING

Live and Trade with Passion
To Your Success,
Doctortyby
  • #46
  • Sep 14, 2011 4:41pm Sep 14, 2011 4:41pm
Quoting doctortyby
You cannot forget about "Risk On/Risk OFF", "Risk Adversion/Risk Appetite" Rules when trading, FEAR abd GREED
All this must be the part of a GOOD system and FOLLOWING THE RULES I was talking about.


Quoting doctortyby
If someone trades only with Technical Analysis based just on a system, he trades just like a trading robot, and he will be successfull untill market conditions change.
It is just not true. I'm talking about a good system, and a good system works under any conditions, at least a good system is supposed to show you that the conditions are no good at this moment.


Quoting doctortyby
Also if someone trades Intraday based only on Technicals he will more often lose due to vollatility and spikes, then longer time frames.(where Technical analysis is more appropriate).
There are very successful M-5 (and even M-1) traders and there are D-1 traders who lose trade after trade.


Quoting doctortyby
I expected more contended replies from Professional Traders to this subject, who could have helped new traders to really succeed in trading. (not to "hang on" from one month to another)
In other words you want to hear only the traders that agree with you? Well, it doesn't work this way, and as you can see I'm not the only one who says that the trading skills are important and NLP - is not.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #47
  • Sep 14, 2011 6:36pm Sep 14, 2011 6:36pm
Quoting coda
Where's the meat?

So far, all you've done is tried to drum up traffic for your article on another site.
With nothing to show here, you'll forgive me for wondering what snake oil you're peddling.

Quoting egadsforex
Here's a challenge: If we're "programmed" to trade exceptionally or to trade like a two year old then it should be a simple matter to code a program that will trade exceptionally. Right? Please direct me to a minimum of five "programs" that have traded exceptionally for at least 3 years and maybe I won't believe that you're just a quack.

Quoting Favorite
as you can see I'm not the only one who says that the trading skills are important and NLP - is not.

doctortyby, there's even more: I'm even not the only one who thinks that NLP is a 21-st century's snake oil!
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #48
  • Sep 14, 2011 6:56pm Sep 14, 2011 6:56pm
calling nlp quackery is a bit like calling "tying a string around your finger" quackery. it's been years since i read about the topic, but all-in-all i would personally summarize it as being a dedicated method to recall something... that something often being an emotional state if that is what one wishes to address.

people wearing sandals, shorts, and holding a beer in their hand are likely to act differently if you put them in a tuxedo and hand them a glass of champagne.

anyways. just sayin....
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #49
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:11pm Sep 14, 2011 7:11pm
Quoting nubcake
calling nlp quackery is a bit like calling "tying a string around your finger" quackery. it's been years since i read about the topic, but all-in-all i would personally summarize it as being a dedicated method to recall something... that something often being an emotional state if that is what one wishes to address.

people wearing sandals, shorts, and holding a beer in their hand are likely to act differently if you put them in a tuxedo and hand them a glass of champagne.

anyways. just sayin....
nubcake, there is a difference: "tying a string around your finger" is free of charge, but the NLP-quacks make small fortunes selling to some poor souls all those sessions, books, seminars, webinars etc. And, of course, "tying a string around your finger" doesn't take a lot of time, but NLP does.

And you personally never used NLP and probably will never use it, right? You're too smart for it, aren't you?

Just like you: just sayin....
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #50
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:25pm Sep 14, 2011 7:25pm
Quoting Favorite
I don't want to offend anybody, but all this NLP/Psychology mumbo jumbo just distracts the new traders from the stuff that is REALLY important. If you have a good trading system, a good money management and FOLLOW YOUR RULES - then you will make money. Otherwise you will lose money, just that simple, and there's no NLP or psychological trick that would help you.

And if somebody thinks that he fails as a trader because his mommy left him alone for a couple of hours when he was four years old or something like this - then he's just not going...

Absolutely 100% false.

Just sayin'


Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #51
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:28pm Sep 14, 2011 7:28pm
Quoting bluesteele
Absolutely 100% false.

Just sayin'





Difference is good!

Just sayin'
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #52
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:28pm Sep 14, 2011 7:28pm
Quoting Favorite
nubcake, there is a difference: "tying a string around your finger" is free of charge, but the NLP-quacks make small fortunes selling to some poor souls all those sessions, books, seminars, webinars etc. And, of course, "tying a string around your finger" doesn't take a lot of time, but NLP does.

And you personally never used NLP and probably will never use it, right? You're too smart for it, aren't you?

Just like you: just sayin....
you could say the same thing for a lot of psyche treatment. it's one of those things where there are a lot of sheeple around, and they need to be herded else they will lemming off a cliff through pure stupidity. then there are those who have some sense of self.

those with a sense of self can get away with doing a google and learning about different things. sheeple need someone to hold their hand for extended periods of time because they are just fucking stupid and don't understand shit.

sometimes people get distracted from everything and lose all focus in life. to me, and memory serving, NLP was a way to get yourself fairly instantly from one state of being to another. if you still retain the focus to realize you are losing some degree of self-control, then you still have enough focus to flip the switch in your head to take-back the reins. again, a lot of people just flounder around through life and never know it.

i would even liken it to those who have techniques to enable them to remember looooong lists of things via creating elaborate rooms or journeys where they deposit different items in different rooms or locations. it all comes down to focus and creating a mental structure that enables you to then associate a wide range of things that all spawn from a simple starting point.

if you create an imaginary castle and you deposit in this castle 100 things in 100 different and unique rooms full of definition, then this is similar to having some physical or mental trigger that puts you into a particular mindset or mood (NLP).

same same, just different. i don't see NLP as snake-oil type of thing, but perhaps there are people out there selling it with that intent and bastardizing what boils down to a degree of common sense. remember, common sense isn't that common, and people often need a reminder about such things.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #53
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:35pm Sep 14, 2011 7:35pm
Quoting nubcake
you could say the same thing for a lot of psyche treatment. it's one of those things where there are a lot of sheeple around, and they need to be herded else they will lemming off a cliff through pure stupidity. then there are those who have some sense of self.

those with a sense of self can get away with doing a google and learning about different things. sheeple need someone to hold their hand for extended periods of time because they are just fucking stupid and don't understand shit.
It is a good point, but don't you think that the "sheeple" are not likely to make it in Forex under any circumstances, with NLP or without it?
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #54
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:38pm Sep 14, 2011 7:38pm
Quoting nubcake
but perhaps there are people out there selling it with that intent and bastardizing what boils down to a degree of common sense.
That's right.

Quoting nubcake
remember, common sense isn't that common, and people often need a reminder about such things.
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #55
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:42pm Sep 14, 2011 7:42pm
Quoting Favorite
It is a good point, but don't you think that the "sheeple" are not likely to make it in Forex under any circumstances, with NLP or without it?
*shakes 8 ball* outlook is grim.

nlp isn't a cure for stupidity. it might help give a general life edge to someone who otherwise wouldn't have it and help them in various situations, but no amount of psycho gymnastics is going to make a crap system/method/strategy profitable and i'm sure that was never the point.

i haven't read this thread, i just happened to catch your reply that i replied to... but i assume (right or wrongly) that the gist of this thread was that a workable trading strategy can be kept on track with the help of NLP, instead of the other possibility which is that a workable strategy get butchered due to someone flipping out and losing the plot.

anyways.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #56
  • Sep 14, 2011 7:52pm Sep 14, 2011 7:52pm
Quoting nubcake
i haven't read this thread, i just happened to catch your reply that i replied to... but i assume (right or wrongly) that the gist of this thread was that a workable trading strategy can be kept on track with the help of NLP, instead of the other possibility which is that a workable strategy get butchered due to someone flipping out and losing the plot.
Not exactly. The main thought of the topic-starter is: ALL traders have been programmed to be the losers and the only way to stop being a loser is to use NLP...


Quoting nubcake
*shakes 8 ball* outlook is grim.

nlp isn't a cure for stupidity. it might help give a general life edge to someone who otherwise wouldn't have it and help them in various situations, but no amount of psycho gymnastics is going to make a crap system/method/strategy profitable and i'm sure that was never the point.
I'm glad that you said this, really well said. anyways
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #57
  • Sep 14, 2011 8:04pm Sep 14, 2011 8:04pm
Quoting Favorite
Not exactly. The main thought of the topic-starter is: ALL traders have been programmed to be the losers and the only way to stop being a loser is to use NLP...
hmm, well, there might be something to that. it's the same old story... you don't know what you don't know. acquiring some focus might help to see through the fog of lies and untrue truths. maybe i'm stretching it, but as an example it's perhaps like sitting in a kindergarten trying to study calculus versus sitting in a library studying calculus. if you can eliminate the external crud it might just be the defining element that helps propel one forward.

for me, i lose a lot of focus when my sleep goes to shit, which is often. add to that the fact that my tv is my pc.... so my 'tv' is generally always on for ambient noise and distraction when i'm bored (which is a lot of the time). i'd do myself a favor by cutting these problems out of my life, but on the flip side i don't have the drive to stare at charts for half the day anymore... so instead i 'manage' my time spent working on ideas. if i could be bothered setting myself up into an environment that was conducive to better concentration i'd possibly fair better in general.


Quote
I'm glad that you said this, really well said. anyways

ta.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #58
  • Sep 14, 2011 8:14pm Sep 14, 2011 8:14pm
Quoting nubcake
hmm, well, there might be something to that. it's the same old story... you don't know what you don't know. acquiring some focus might help to see through the fog of lies and untrue truths. maybe i'm stretching it, but as an example it's perhaps like sitting in a kindergarten trying to study calculus versus sitting in a library studying calculus. if you can eliminate the external crud it might just be the defining element that helps propel one forward.

for me, i lose a lot of focus when my sleep goes to shit, which is often. add to that the fact...
Yes, but you're NOT saying that TV, newspapers, society, your parents or somebody/something else programmed you to be a Forex-loser even before you started trading?

If you lose focus, you know that it is not because "programming", it is not because your dad didn't buy you a bike when you were 10 years old?
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #59
  • Sep 14, 2011 8:23pm Sep 14, 2011 8:23pm
Quoting Favorite
Yes, but you're NOT saying that TV, newspapers, society, your parents or somebody/something else programmed you to be a Forex-loser even before you started trading?

If you lose focus, you know that it is not because "programming", it is not because your dad didn't buy you a bike when you were 10 years old?
my opinion is probably not in the realm of what the OP meant. but for me, there is something to be said for modern society. there's just lots of garbage filler, and very rarely if ever anything of substance. it's easy to just get lost in life and never accomplish anything. those who speak-up with something of substance are inevitably shot down by the hordes of ignorance. hey, the president or prime minister or king or queen isn't the most intelligent person of that country or wherever... they are their purely because of their parents or because the majority of sheeple voted in a popularity contest and put them there. perhaps it's my own ignorance, but i'm not aware of any scientists who have ever been 'in charge' of a country.

a lot of people don't know how to focus. simply don't know how. they are too busy being shallow flakes or chasing their tail because their boss needs a coffee and a bj asap.

there is only one winner in a competition. everyone else is simply a participant... but the winners never make the decisions, it's always the participants.

i've been awake for too long. i'm losing the plot.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #60
  • Sep 14, 2011 8:33pm Sep 14, 2011 8:33pm
Quoting nubcake
perhaps it's my own ignorance, but i'm not aware of any scientists who have ever been 'in charge' of a country.
Ex-president of the Czech Republic Vaclav Havel is an intellectual...


Quoting nubcake
i've been awake for too long. i'm losing the plot.
That's why I sleep during day and trade at night.

Bye-bye!
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
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