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Are Traders Programmed to Fail?

  • #21
  • Sep 11, 2011 3:24pm Sep 11, 2011 3:24pm
Quoting doctortyby
The GREATEST LIE is the one that containes HALF TRUTH...

Have You ever wondered why so many time you follow your Fundamental and Technical Analysis, see an opportunity, but you are not able to make the order to enter the market , loosing the momentum... and after that you enter a trade in a much weaker setup, make the order, and the market turns against you?...

Well... YOU ARE MENTALY and EMOTIONALY PROGRAMMED TO MAKE THOSE WEAKER ORDERS FROM YOUR TRADING EDUCATION... EMOTIONS SHOULD BE COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM YOUR TRADING...
With a clear understanding of candles, no.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #22
  • Sep 11, 2011 3:25pm Sep 11, 2011 3:25pm
Quoting MackS10
Here is the story:
The Seasoned Trader Feeds on the New Trader

As you keep trading, they’ll be on the other side, putting YOUR
cash into their pockets.

If you want to be part of the few... find what works, experience is the only one that counts. No shortcut.
Absolutely!
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #23
  • Edited Sep 12, 2011 8:01am Sep 11, 2011 3:26pm | Edited Sep 12, 2011 8:01am
Modern humans are programmed to fail because they are programmed to blame in lieu of accepting personal responsibility. Remember as a child when you were hurt by hitting or falling into an inanimate object and your parents scolded the object? If one cannot own and accept the outcome of their decisions, there is no accountability and therefore no skill or justification to perserver. Perseverance is the key to any success - especially trading.

Most traders are in a predicament because the market requires personal responsibility above all else. It is the great equalizer.

We are all motivated primarily by pain avoidance. The pain of a loss or responsibility for a losing trade is simply more than most traders can bear. Why not do the least amount of work possible, blame the system, blame the market, etc. - or at the very least, lie about it! This is the armor traders use to protect themselves and absolve themselves from the fact that trading is difficult, it takes lots of work and you must look in the mirror everyday and be totally accountable. They simply refuse to believe trading is like any other profession - it requires a thorough education, extensive training and total commitment.

So yes, they are programmed to fail, long before they ever decide to become traders. It is possible to reverse the programming, but that in itself takes perseverance and commitment - it's just not going to happen. How can one expect to do the really hard work when the first step of the easy work begins with really hard work?

This vicious cycle continues for 95% of traders and the 5% making money are counting on it.
  • #24
  • Sep 11, 2011 3:47pm Sep 11, 2011 3:47pm
Quoting egadsforex
I would give your paper a C- as it contains "half truths". I'll start with the "EMOTIONS SHOULD BE COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM YOUR TRADING STRATEGY".

While emotion should be removed from your strategy you can't be emotionless about trading. That would be the same as saying "I just don't give a damn".

Emotion, fear and greed, are some of the primary drivers of the forex market. Strive to detach yourself from emotional trading (I am emotional about trading yet I don't TRADE EMOTIONALLY) while reading the emotions of the masses and you may be...
Fear and Greed of the Masses do indeed drive the market, but in order to read the psyhology of the masses you need to detach yourself from emotions. I also Emotionally LOVE TRADING, and I don't trade emotionally.
I think we agree on the matter although I incline to believe I wass missunderstood. I love trading but I don't get emotionally involved with my winning trades and my losing trades. Another secret to detach yourself from emotions is to use conditional orders

To your success,
Doctortyby
  • #25
  • Sep 11, 2011 3:49pm Sep 11, 2011 3:49pm
Quoting dcginc
Modern humans are programmed to fail because they are programmed to blame in lieu of accepting personal responsibility. Remember as a child when you were hurt by hitting or falling into an inanimate object and your parents scolded the object? If one cannot own and accept the outcome of their decisions, there is no accountability and therefore no skill or justification to preserver. Perseverance is the key to any success - especially trading.

[color=black][font=Verdana]Most traders are in a predicament...
A good post though I dislike the use of the word "programmed" when it comes to human psyche. We're not computers.

We are taught, we learn, we teach. We react with emotion, we can be emotionless. If we can be taught to fail then we CAN learn to succeed.

No one will "program" me to do that.
  • #26
  • Edited 4:14pm Sep 11, 2011 4:04pm | Edited 4:14pm
Quoting egadsforex
A good post though I dislike the use of the word "programmed" when it comes to human psyche. We're not computers.

We are taught, we learn, we teach. We react with emotion, we can be emotionless. If we can be taught to fail then we CAN learn to succeed.

No one will "program" me to do that.
Think of it this way:
If I wanted You to be angry, I would contradict you, and wake up the EGO in You, because You think You are always in control, and You FEEL the NEED to SHOW me that I''m wrong and that is nothing I can do to take You to the Emotional state that I want. Or you could ignore me, and that would certainly demonstrate my point
My friend, You have to realise that the Programming of computers has been invented after the model of the human brain and the subconscious. You take your decisions after a certain command of the subconscius is triggered from an emotional (or psyhological) anchor, in a form of a thought, image, sound, ideea, feeling, memory etc.
If You don't realise how You are beeing manipulated to make wrong decisions, if You don't admit to yourself you can be decieved, You are already lost.

To your success,
Doctortyby
  • #27
  • Sep 11, 2011 4:09pm Sep 11, 2011 4:09pm
Quoting dcginc
Modern humans are programmed to fail because they are programmed to blame in lieu of accepting personal responsibility. Remember as a child when you were hurt by hitting or falling into an inanimate object and your parents scolded the object? If one cannot own and accept the outcome of their decisions, there is no accountability and therefore no skill or justification to preserver. Perseverance is the key to any success - especially trading.

[color=black][font=Verdana]Most traders are in a predicament...
I agree with You, my Friend, but we have to detach from the emotions of the masses if we want to succeed in trading... so let that Pain GO AWAY, and let's FOCUS ON OUR SUCCESS, AND TAKE DELIGHT IN THE FLAVOUR OF THE ROAD TO GET THERE.

tO yOUR sUCCESS,
Doctortyby
  • #28
  • Sep 11, 2011 4:33pm Sep 11, 2011 4:33pm
Quoting doctortyby
Think of it this way:
If I wanted You to be angry, I would contradict you, and wake up the EGO in You, because You think You are always in control, and You FEEL the NEED to SHOW me that I''m wrong and that is nothing I can do to take You to the Emotional state that I want. Or you could ignore me, and that would certainly demonstrate my point
My friend, You have to realise that the Programming of computers has been invented after the model of the human brain and the subconscious. You take your decisions after a certain command of the subconscius...
Part of the problem here is that you don't really know me. You're trying to compare a mass marketed computer program to an individual human brain.

The brain has emotion, yes, you might piss me off if you contradict something that I'm passionate about. That doesn't mean I'm programmed. It means I'm human. I make no apology for that.

Of course I make bad decisions. Of course I can be deceived. But who is it that YOU'RE saying is deceiving me or manipulating me?

If I "take your decisions after a certain command of the subconscius is triggered from an emotional (or psyhological) anchor, in a form of a thought, image, sound, ideea, feeling, memory etc." (you REALLY need to check your spelling, btw) how is my subconscious like a computer program?

You can know a computer and exactly what it's going to do via its programming. Don't you think it's a bit more difficult to categorize each and every, individual human brain.
  • #29
  • Sep 11, 2011 4:36pm Sep 11, 2011 4:36pm
Quoting doctortyby
I agree with You, my Friend, but we have to detach from the emotions of the masses if we want to succeed in trading... so let that Pain GO AWAY, and let's FOCUS ON OUR SUCCESS, AND TAKE DELIGHT IN THE FLAVOUR OF THE ROAD TO GET THERE.

tO yOUR sUCCESS,
Doctortyby
You're TOTALLY wrong here. It IS the emotion of the masses that drives the FOREX market. Don't you see? You have to detach yourself from emotional trading, not detach yourself from emotion.

Do you understand that difference?
  • #30
  • Sep 11, 2011 4:42pm Sep 11, 2011 4:42pm
Quoting egadsforex
You're TOTALLY wrong here. It IS the emotion of the masses that drives the FOREX market. Don't you see? You have to detach yourself from emotional trading, not detach yourself from emotion.

Do you understand that difference?
Hmmm...looks like you have just proven Drtoyboys theory???


shame on you doc manipulating the folk on here with your NLP...tsk tsk
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #31
  • Sep 11, 2011 4:51pm Sep 11, 2011 4:51pm
Quoting bluesteele
Hmmm...looks like you have just proven Drtoyboys theory???


shame on you doc manipulating the folk on here with your NLP...tsk tsk
Please elaborate. What exactly IS the DOC's "theory" as you see it ???
  • #32
  • Sep 11, 2011 5:15pm Sep 11, 2011 5:15pm
Quoting doctortyby
Fear and Greed of the Masses do indeed drive the market, but in order to read the psyhology of the masses you need to detach yourself from emotions. I also Emotionally LOVE TRADING, and I don't trade emotionally.
I think we agree on the matter although I incline to believe I wass missunderstood. I love trading but I don't get emotionally involved with my winning trades and my losing trades. Another secret to detach yourself from emotions is to use conditional orders

To your success,
Doctortyby
That's pretty much what I said. However, I really fail to see the entire "direction" of your thread. Other than that "we are programmed to fail" and "emotions should be removed" you really haven't made much of a point.

I agreed that I can be deceived, manipulated and .... something else.

I disagreed that I am like a computer program but rather an individual human with a brain that is exactly like no other. I believed that IF we are taught to fail, then we CAN be taught to succeed.

I don't need a mentalist, hypnotist or a "doctortyby" to tell me that my brain has flaws but it is not a computer program.

Here's a challenge: If we're "programmed" to trade exceptionally or to trade like a two year old then it should be a simple matter to code a program that will trade exceptionally. Right? Please direct me to a minimum of five "programs" that have traded exceptionally for at least 3 years and maybe I won't believe that you're just a quack.
  • #33
  • Sep 11, 2011 5:24pm Sep 11, 2011 5:24pm
Quoting doctortyby
Have you ever wondered why 99% (some say 95%) of retail traders fail to profit from the FOREX MARKET, COMMODITIES MARKET, STOCK and BONDS MARKET. Could it be:
[list][*]that traders don't have a minimum of FINANCIAL EDUCATION, and their trading is based on gambling (even if they don't realise it)?[*]that traders interpretate wrong the MASS OF TRADERS PSYHOLOGY, because they were thought this way?[*]FUNDAMENTAL and TECHNICAL ANALYSIS goes against them, because the INSTITUTIONAL TRADERS, and HEDGE FUNDS are always one step ahead (they don't...
Here are some more flaws in your "theory".

"that traders don't have a minimum of FINANCIAL EDUCATION, and their trading is based on gambling (even if they don't realise it)?"

If traders are pre-programmed" what does education have to do with anything?

"

 

  1. that traders interpretate wrong the MASS OF TRADERS PSYHOLOGY, because they were thought this way?

Interpretation is a function of the human brain, NOT of programming.

"the lack of a TRADING PLAN, wrong MONEY MANAGEMENT?"

The lack of a trading plan is an "omission of code" rather than poor planning by a poorly taught individual?

"they THINK TOO MUCH BEFORE MAKING AN ORDER, and CHANGE THEIR MINDS VERY EASY?"

Thinking too much and changing one's MIND is a result of computer programming?

Well.... I could go on Doc but you're just manipulating me to state the facts.

  • #34
  • Sep 11, 2011 7:57pm Sep 11, 2011 7:57pm
Quoting bluesteele
Hmmm...looks like you have just proven Drtoyboys theory???


shame on you doc manipulating the folk on here with your NLP...tsk tsk


DOA ???
  • #35
  • Sep 11, 2011 8:01pm Sep 11, 2011 8:01pm
so it's true forex is just a gambling.and broker is the casino.
  • #36
  • Sep 11, 2011 8:10pm Sep 11, 2011 8:10pm
Quoting wnvoo
so it's true forex is just a gambling.and broker is the casino.
NO. That is not true. How did you get that idea?
  • #37
  • Sep 11, 2011 8:22pm Sep 11, 2011 8:22pm
Quoting dcginc
Modern humans are programmed to fail because they are programmed to blame in lieu of accepting personal responsibility. Remember as a child when you were hurt by hitting or falling into an inanimate object and your parents scolded the object? If one cannot own and accept the outcome of their decisions, there is no accountability and therefore no skill or justification to preserver. Perseverance is the key to any success - especially trading.

[color=black][font=Verdana]Most traders are in a predicament...
You've only to look at some of the trade calls on here to realise just how far off the mark most are. It takes blood, sweat, tears and the late night candle to get to even understand how wrong so much of the teaching is. Which is why they teach, I guess.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #38
  • Sep 11, 2011 8:33pm Sep 11, 2011 8:33pm
Quoting traider
You've only to look at some of the trade calls on here to realise just how far off the mark most are. It takes blood, sweat, tears and the late night candle to get to even understand how wrong so much of the teaching is. Which is why they teach, I guess.
As much as I like to argue with just about anything, the above is REALLY HARD to argue with.

Well said , "traider".

The best we can do is to learn to think for ourselves.
  • #39
  • Sep 12, 2011 7:42am Sep 12, 2011 7:42am
Quoting egadsforex
That's pretty much what I said. However, I really fail to see the entire "direction" of your thread. Other than that "we are programmed to fail" and "emotions should be removed" you really haven't made much of a point.

I agreed that I can be deceived, manipulated and .... something else.

I disagreed that I am like a computer program but rather an individual human with a brain that is exactly like no other. I believed that IF we are taught to fail, then we CAN be taught to succeed.

I don't need a mentalist, hypnotist or a "doctortyby"...
Hello Egadsforex,

First of all I am affraid You took the "programming" issue too personally. Any way I am glad that you have started to ask yourself some questions (actually that was my goal - not for you personally, but for all traders).
Unfortunately You have lost the essence of my article : "Are Traders Programmed to Fail?" Not for a momment I have stated that human brain is anything like a computer. And you should realise that a computer program is the command that triggers an action of the computer (the difference is obvious). I said that computer programming follows the model of the brain activity.
There is another kind of programming, other than that of computers. That is the Neuro Lingvistic Programming (Mental Programming), and the main Instrument for this tipe of programming is EDUCATION, followed by EXPERIENCE, and EMOTIONS. In other words The Main Idea of My Statement is the WRONG MENTALITY OF TRADERS.
I personally DO NOT USE TRADING ROBOTS or to complex Mathematical INDICATORS, because a PROGRAM can be successfull just for a period of time, untill Market Conditions Change.
You know very well that because You are strongly convinced that I'm wrong, there is no argument that I could Give You, that could turn You "on my side"
All You need to DO is this: TRY TO OBSERVE WHAT YOUR BRAIN... IS THINKING RIGHT NOW... TRY TO SEE BEYOND YOUR BRAIN... BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT YOUR BRAIN... YOU BRAIN IS YOU GRATEST FRIEND ... AND COULD BE YOUR GREATEST ENEMY, IF YOU LET HIM RULE YOU.
Please excuse my faults in spelling... I am not a Native English.

To your success,
Doctortyby
  • #40
  • Sep 12, 2011 4:45pm Sep 12, 2011 4:45pm
Quoting wnvoo
so it's true forex is just a gambling.and broker is the casino.
Forex could be gambling just for a new trader without any experience on the analysis of the Price Action, Technical or Fundamental conditions of the Market. ONE has to educate himself to become a serious trader...

On the other hand you could say that Forex and the other Financial Markets are Games of Your Mind, regarding Your Trading Decisions...

Good Luck,
Doctortyby
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