Is there such a thing as trying too hard? | Forex Factory

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Is there such a thing as trying too hard?

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 7, 2011 8:40pm Sep 7, 2011 8:40pm
Hi All,

I really like the FOREX market and Love to trade.

So far I am not consistently profitable(Lucky?) but I think I can change that as I continue working/Backtesting/emotion control.

My question is

"Is there such a thing as trying too hard in Forex?"

My reason for asking is that I have tried very hard for a fair amount of time, and sometimes I don't know what to think. I think I know more theory than most traders... (maybe arrogant, I have been studying this market for quite some time) but we all know that doesn't help catching the pips...

I have been interested since 15, reading and studying the market on and off(Forex is not the only thing I try hard at), 20yr old now.

Opinions and ideas welcome, especially from the Older/More experienced crowd.

Thanks alot.
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
  • #2
  • Sep 7, 2011 9:16pm Sep 7, 2011 9:16pm
Trying too hard can be a bad thing when it comes to fx....

Doing is the way we often get anything done.... but in fx its often the wrong way to approach it as you have to learn to be patient and "not do", sometimes for a long time, while waiting to trade a good setup.

Trading profitably is a little like fishing.... you gotta wait and let the fish bite... when they do you hook em!

My experience has shown me that trading less is more profitable for me...

You learn when your mind isnt right, and then you dont trade... go do something else for awhile
  • #3
  • Sep 7, 2011 9:41pm Sep 7, 2011 9:41pm
i disagree.

if you are good at it, you should be able to make money every day.

the euro moves 150 pips a day on average. 50pips a day should not be that hard.

what is a good set up?

whats more sexy boobs or ass?

the question is relative.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #4
  • Sep 7, 2011 9:42pm Sep 7, 2011 9:42pm
Thanks DB

Forex is unlike anything I have ever tried, Hard work in forex is somewhat different to hard work in other jobs.
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
  • #5
  • Sep 7, 2011 9:44pm Sep 7, 2011 9:44pm
Quoting the redlion
i disagree.

if you are good at it, you should be able to make money every day.

the euro moves 150 pips a day on average. 50pips a day should not be that hard.

what is a good set up?

whats more sexy boobs or ass?

the question is relative.
Thanks mate,

If I could catch 50 pips a day consistently I would be very happy.

I would very willingly work extremely hard for this as well.

But I guess the problem is if you go and lose 50 a day.

EDIT: yeah, 50 pips a day SHOULD not be that hard.

Any gain is a good gain I think, as long as you can do it more than once... Or more than 50%/R:R combination
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
  • #6
  • Sep 7, 2011 11:44pm Sep 7, 2011 11:44pm
Well, I'm not a complete newbie, but I think I know enough to give my opinion.

Being that FOREX is, essentially, a business based on analysis and the ability to read and understand the market situation and know how to utilize the tools and whatever indicator/trading method you've chosen, then I wouldn't imagine there is such as thing as "trying to hard".

I suppose the "trying to hard" could come in the way of trying to hard doing all the wrong things. Stretching yourself over too many trading options, too many pairs, or trying to use too many trading techniques, etc.

But, as far as "trying to hard" when it comes to simply just wanting to be the best you can be with the trading system(s) and techniques you've decided on yourself, then I don't think so!
  • #7
  • Sep 8, 2011 1:17am Sep 8, 2011 1:17am
Quoting Loooit
Thanks mate,

If I could catch 50 pips a day consistently I would be very happy.

I would very willingly work extremely hard for this as well.

But I guess the problem is if you go and lose 50 a day.

EDIT: yeah, 50 pips a day SHOULD not be that hard.

Any gain is a good gain I think, as long as you can do it more than once... Or more than 50%/R:R combination
Anybody should be happy if they can consistently capture 1 pip a day. IMO it's a dangerous attitude to have. I certainly won't say it's impossible, but the market does not lend itself to rigid targets. You take a trade when there's an opportunity; whether the opportunity arises every day or once a month depends on the market. Having a set target forces you to trade regardless of whether there's a good enough opportinity; furthermore it encourages overtrading to make up for your losses and gain your target.
  • #8
  • Sep 8, 2011 2:38am Sep 8, 2011 2:38am
Quoting Tim Reed
Well, I'm not a complete newbie, but I think I know enough to give my opinion.

Being that FOREX is, essentially, a business based on analysis and the ability to read and understand the market situation and know how to utilize the tools and whatever indicator/trading method you've chosen, then I wouldn't imagine there is such as thing as "trying to hard".

I suppose the "trying to hard" could come in the way of trying to hard doing all the wrong things. Stretching yourself over too many trading options, too many pairs, or trying to use...
I agree.

I have thought about a bit more now. And think that you need to work in the right direction.

I think new traders suffer with finding this direction too long. I think I am starting to gead in the right direction now.
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
  • #9
  • Sep 9, 2011 1:25am Sep 9, 2011 1:25am
You must achieve professional approach. You should'nt trade neither relaxed, nor stressed. Remember that you can't force the market to do anything. All you can do is react to what's going on. And you can do that only after fundamental and technical analysis.
  • #10
  • Sep 13, 2011 8:54am Sep 13, 2011 8:54am
if you look at a chart for the Euro, you can tell that there are some days of higher some days of lower range. but the fact of the matter remain, its moving in one direction, about 150 pips on average, that is your market capacity.

time frames are relative, if one looks a the move from one price level to another and calculates the momentum that and prevalence in orders, grabbing 33% of that move, every day, granted you are day trading, or every other day should not be that hard.

a set up is relative, one is betting that past action observed will continue, it is just as accurate as using the open price and betting on direction in my opinion.

yes this is a business and as a business man one needs to challenge oneself to hone ones skills to extract as much as the market CAN give.
over trading is relative
time frames is relative
set ups are relative

find what you CAN control (not price nor price movement) and improve on it.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #11
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:01am Sep 13, 2011 9:01am
Seems to me this post is relative, and shouldn't be taken seriously......

Quoting the redlion
if you look at a chart for the Euro, you can tell that there are some days of higher some days of lower range. but the fact of the matter remain, its moving in one direction, about 150 pips on average, that is your market capacity.

time frames are relative, if one looks a the move from one price level to another and calculates the momentum that and prevalence in orders, grabbing 33% of that move, every day, granted you are day trading, or every other day should not be that hard.

a set up is relative, one is betting that past action observed will...
  • #12
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:06am Sep 13, 2011 9:06am
Quoting dbeach777
Seems to me this post is relative, and shouldn't be taken seriously......
ok prove me wrong, since you roll your eyes

you are telling me that if i am making a living day trading, average range of daily pip movement telling me 150 pips is PROBABLE

i should not find a way to extract as much as possible? clearly is probable.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #13
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:12am Sep 13, 2011 9:12am
.... or should I say "Expect to much". Try this on for size:

Spend the weekend looking @ daily and weekly charts. Put this together with the fundamentals of what the country is doing. Identify your potentail trade, with appropriate entries, profit limits, and stop loss. Enter those decisions into your trading platform. Turn off your computer, and do not check your trade until and hour or two before market close on Friday.

If your analysis is good, you will make very good money this way. If your analysis is bad, you will lose a lot less.

Regards,
  • #14
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:15am Sep 13, 2011 9:15am
Surely you should extract as much as possible.... (how much?) but you've been saying so many relative things its impossible to take anything absolute out of it.......

Quoting the redlion
ok prove me wrong, since you roll your eyes

you are telling me that if i am making a living day trading, average range of daily pip movement telling me 150 pips is PROBABLE

i should not find a way to extract as much as possible? clearly is probable.
  • #15
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:21am Sep 13, 2011 9:21am
i agree with your quote. most expect too much.
measure your performance by ROI, and always be aware of your VAR,
be flexible in your approach, do not limit yourself.

Most look at the wrong things, or the wrong things trigger most trades.

the market is about probability and and Risks those are measurable

reward is relative, time frames are relative, set ups are relative.

at the end of the day, for all our analysis, i know about the next tick as much as anyone in this world UNLESS YOU ARE MOVING IT.

the Number one thing to identify when trading if you, dont do anything else is prevalence in orders (and this too is relative, as one can only expect continuation) how can you cope with an PREDICTABLY UNPREDICTABLE environment?



this is why most lose money.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #16
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:30am Sep 13, 2011 9:30am
I had a job and i had no time or little time to trade, but my trades were not so bad.
Now i have more time for trading and i do so much, i'm working hard, too hard to improve myself, but since i work so hard my trading is getting worst and worst each day . Maybe sometimes beeing faraway from the pc improves our trading.
  • #17
  • Sep 13, 2011 9:45am Sep 13, 2011 9:45am
Quoting liberty
I had a job and i had no time or little time to trade, but my trades were not so bad.
Now i have more time for trading and i do so much, i'm working hard, too hard to improve myself, but since i work so hard my trading is getting worst and worst each day . Maybe sometimes beeing faraway from the pc improves our trading.
lets talk about market form, maybe you were just lucky.

if you generally bought on a bull market that could explain your observations,

you see the market never changes, but the market changes constantly

its a conundrum isnt it?

i believe understanding the market one trades, understanding what moves price, having a good sense of FA, and good grounding on correct TA.
calculating probabilities BUT COPING WITH THIS UNPREDICTABLE environment. is a must.

to answer the question

TRYING TOO HARD is not bad at all, trying hard with WRONG philosophies and approaches IS DETRIMENTAL.

if you are trying hard to PREDICT you will FAIL
if you are trying hard to cope YOU WILL SUCCEED
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #18
  • Sep 13, 2011 11:04am Sep 13, 2011 11:04am
hi loooit, sounds like your having the same trouble that i used to have with the markets, this may or may not help but once i read the first two hundred or so pages of this thread, it all became very clear, i am now not struggling with it all and have become consitantly profitable thanks to fti.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=57639

i see that redlion has read this thread and i completely understand what he is saying.

i hope it helps you understand the markets as it did me.
-be careful about what you allow to be put in your mind-
  • #19
  • Sep 13, 2011 1:11pm Sep 13, 2011 1:11pm
Quoting Loooit
Hi All,

I really like the FOREX market and Love to trade.

So far I am not consistently profitable(Lucky?) but I think I can change that as I continue working/Backtesting/emotion control.

My question is

"Is there such a thing as trying too hard in Forex?"

My reason for asking is that I have tried very hard for a fair amount of time, and sometimes I don't know what to think. I think I know more theory than most traders... (maybe arrogant, I have been studying this market for quite some time) but we all know that doesn't help catching the pips...

I...
If your challenges are psychological, making an effort may not help.

Making an effort only applies to that of which we are aware, and if increased self-awareness and psychological insight are required other approaches may be needed.

Approaches for this used by traders include meditation, NLP, hypnotherapy, etc, and many prop firms hire psychologists to provide them.

The interviews with Charles Faulkner and Robert Krausz in Jack Schwager's The New Market Wizards are well worth reading in connection with this.

See also http://www.metaphorsofmovement.co.uk...sfaulkner.html
  • #20
  • Sep 13, 2011 4:02pm Sep 13, 2011 4:02pm
Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies, I have read all the posts and plan on reading them again and then giving my opinion.

Thanks,

Loooit
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
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