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How much are you ready to pay for Forex Stuff?

  • #81
  • Aug 20, 2011 7:37am Aug 20, 2011 7:37am
Proprietary information can be bought either with ones time or for a hefty sum.

Since courses dont contain proprietary info per se, id invest for basics in trading.

Id get an extensive book on conventional trading to understand and get a feel for how the majority trade.

The rest of my education money would go into a good backtesting course/program to test these 'conventional approaches' found in books.

As for the rest, well, frankly not many would be willing to sell a course/system that consistently rinses the markets. At least I wouldnt, unless it was one o one with someone who truly has potential for it and signed NDA + binding contracts.

Would I charge for it? Probably not. Id do a revenue share.
  • #82
  • Aug 20, 2011 8:10am Aug 20, 2011 8:10am
You sorta have two choices: 1. Spend 5 years and $15,000 learning how to trade "your way" or 2. Spend 2 years and $15,000 paying someone to teach you "their way" of trading.

If you are into research, and are looking for the next quantum leap in how to trade, then you have to go with #1. If you are not into geeky stuff like that; then you have to go with option #2 where you pay someone to teach you. There are two problems with #2...the first being; you have no idea if their trading methodology actually works; so you are operating on blind faith. You'd have to see a copy of their brokerage statements to be 100% sure...and most people will not reveal that type of information. The second problem is that once you start paying folks, you give up your ability to think independently and to think outside the box.
  • #83
  • Aug 20, 2011 9:00am Aug 20, 2011 9:00am
Quoting josef
Don't be afraid to buy Forex products. If it's good - you will earn money, if it isn't you will become wiser.
//---

be carefull, if your speakin about indicators or ea's.....

//---

some of us have, in mq4 form, almost every single ea or indicator sold....

every day someone will send me another or i might collect another though common means.....

are they worth anything..... flat out no..... the proof is, my account in far less than crucial point's..... and it would take far less than his 50k price tag to see mine.....

//....

forex seems to be a loners game..... those that are succesfull, hide it.... those that are not, hide it better......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #84
  • Edited 11:50am Aug 20, 2011 11:36am | Edited 11:50am
My 2 cents.

Things I gladly pay for. A great feed, news wire, and hardware.

Things I would never pay for. Classes or indicators.

Malcolm Gladwell put it best in Outliers. It takes 10,000 hours to become a professional. (3 hours a day for 10 years, or if you put in longer hours, shorter years)

There is no work around. In every discipline he researched, the same number came up consistently across the board. 10,000 hours.

Besides time put in, try to surround yourself with people smarter and better than you. But you need talent to do this. Remarkable people have no time for mediocrity. And without a real mentor, or upstream connections, you're outside of the loop. This is a proven fact in every business.

There's an important differentiation between classes and mentoring. A mentor sees you as a potential future asset and is willing to invest in you. A course is something someone's selling to you.

There's a lot of truth in the saying, "Those who can do, and those who can't teach."

You're buying a formula when you sign up for a course. And it's usually distilled down to the lowest common denominator that will appeal to the widest possible audience. You get no real personal training from it, and the knowledge shared is reductionist bullshit.

With indicators, the stuff you can get online are junk. Most free indicators are.

I happened to get lucky. I worked for GS in the early 90's as an outside contractor and had the opportunity to work with some of the best minds in the industry building stuff. I muck around sometimes on TSD and Trader's Lab testing Ocean Theory and other interesting concepts, but everything I personally use is not in the public domain.

Of course there are secrets. This is a highly lucrative and competitive business. Most people have no concept how advanced algorithmic trading has become in the past couple of years and that code is gold. People on public forums are talking about horse and buggy stuff. Even what I use is nothing compared to the spend and cumulative brain trust of the large institutions. I don't have any allusions.

So to think you will have any kind of edge technically buying an indicator is ludicrous.

If I sound discouraging it's for a reason. There are many unavoidable facts in this business. It's the toughest game in the world, bar none.

Every one in a million is an outlier. But you need to be deadly honest with yourself if you really have the potential, mindset, and then access to succeed.
  • #85
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:41am Aug 20, 2011 11:41am
Quoting Fudomyo
My 2 cents.

Things I gladly pay for. A great feed, news wire, and hardware.

Things I would never pay for. Classes or indicators.

Malcolm Gladwell put it best in Outliers. It takes 10,000 hours to become a professional. (3 hours a day for 10 years, or if you put in longer hours, shorter years)

There is no work around. In every discipline he researched, the same number came up consistently across the board. 10,000 hours.

Besides time put in, try to surround yourself with people smarter and better than you. But you need talent to do this....
Some good points but some are subjective.

With due respect to you Fundo, some of us have absolutely no need for newsfeeds at all and there are many good teachers that aren't necessarily good traders. If you cannot even tell one from the other then you shouldn't even be considering trading.
  • #86
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:49am Aug 20, 2011 11:49am
Everyone puts so much weight on how great the "Big" financial institutions are with their lame algos (that always blow up in the end) and it really is a joke. All the major houses went bankrupt and needed Government bailout money to stay afloat. Maybe they can trade, but their money management is shit, but I guess it can be since they can get bailed out when they lose it all.

Lots of these algos are also front-running trades, which is criminal as well. But whose going to stop them? Hahaha. It's a joke. yeah, really high tech. LOL
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #87
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:51am Aug 20, 2011 11:51am
Quoting jag1966
Some good points but some are subjective.

With due respect to you Fundo, some of us have absolutely no need for newsfeeds at all and there are many good teachers that aren't necessarily good traders. If you cannot even tell one from the other then you shouldn't even be considering trading.
not teachers. this is not what I was referring to.
  • #88
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:56am Aug 20, 2011 11:56am
Quoting Fudomyo
not teachers. this is not what I was referring to.
My bad, apologies.
  • #89
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:57am Aug 20, 2011 11:57am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Everyone puts so much weight on how great the "Big" financial institutions are with their lame algos (that always blow up in the end) and it really is a joke. All the major houses went bankrupt and needed Government bailout money to stay afloat. Maybe they can trade, but their money management is shit, but I guess it can be since they can get bailed out when they lose it all.

Lots of these algos are also front-running trades, which is criminal as well. But whose going to stop them? Hahaha. It's a joke.
someone seriously needs to get laid.

come back when you're more relaxed, a lot less political, and capable to see how money moves.

the bailouts were a plan, not to correct a mistake.

sheesh.
  • #90
  • Aug 20, 2011 11:58am Aug 20, 2011 11:58am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Everyone puts so much weight on how great the "Big" financial institutions are with their lame algos (that always blow up in the end) and it really is a joke. All the major houses went bankrupt and needed Government bailout money to stay afloat. Maybe they can trade, but their money management is shit, but I guess it can be since they can get bailed out when they lose it all.

Lots of these algos are also front-running trades, which is criminal as well. But whose going to stop them? Hahaha. It's a joke. yeah, really high tech. LOL
I have to say I agree with you 100%. I hear horror stories all the time from people that have worked for some of the big institutions as "so called" expert traders.
  • #91
  • Aug 20, 2011 12:01pm Aug 20, 2011 12:01pm
Quoting Fudomyo
someone seriously needs to get laid.

come back when you're more relaxed, a lot less political, and capable to see how money moves.
Yeah, the GS guys can actually expense their high end hookers as a business expense. NICE! I however cannot. There was documentary on it floating around somewhere on FF.

It is my hope and dream that one day I can afford $3000/hr hookers though.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #92
  • Aug 20, 2011 12:02pm Aug 20, 2011 12:02pm
Quoting simplealien
A forex trader will lose atleast $20,000 in 4 or 5 years while he learns profitable forex trading on consistent basis.

So you are paying $20,000 to learn forex. The same applies to other investments also.

cite?
  • #93
  • Aug 20, 2011 7:28pm Aug 20, 2011 7:28pm
Quoting coda
cite?
Every forex trader loses money while trading forex when he learns forex for 4 or 5 years. So by the time he masters forex he must have lost atleast $20,000.

So you pay atleast $20,000 to learn forex. The same applies to other investments also.
Not a Single Losing Year for More Than 11 Years. Minimum 25,000 Euros
  • #94
  • Aug 26, 2011 3:43am Aug 26, 2011 3:43am
Interesting, there are only few people in between. 43% won't give money for forex tools and 49% ready to pay a lot of money.
  • #95
  • Aug 26, 2011 6:35am Aug 26, 2011 6:35am
Quoting josef
Interesting, there are only few people in between. 43% won't give money for forex tools and 49% ready to pay a lot of money.
sure, they might say they will pay $500 + but when it is crunch time, will they?

as was said in other forum, the real question should be "How much have you paid for FOREX stuff?"

that would be an interesting poll, and surprisingly many will give honest answers
It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #96
  • Aug 27, 2011 4:45pm Aug 27, 2011 4:45pm
So where do you get the figure $4000/year from?

A "cite" is a reference to at least one (reputable) publication that serves as the source for your numbers.

When you spit out a number be ready to back it up. Otherwise admit that you are guessing, or, extrapolating based on your own experience.

I'm quite happy to be corrected. Simply provide some real world info to back up your numbers. Your say so, on its own, is not enough.

Quoting simplealien
>cite?
Every forex trader loses money while trading forex when he learns forex for 4 or 5 years. So by the time he masters forex he must have lost atleast $20,000.

So you pay atleast $20,000 to learn forex. The same applies to other investments also.
  • #97
  • Aug 27, 2011 4:53pm Aug 27, 2011 4:53pm
Quoting josef
Interesting, there are only few people in between. 43% won't give money for forex tools and 49% ready to pay a lot of money.

Be careful with the 49% assessment. I voted for that, but I think a lot of them, (well, me anyway,) are ready to pay for the real thing, but are not really expecting to find the "real thing" available for sale.


For me, by definition, if it's for sale, it's probably not real, otherwise why is it being sold instead of being used, ... etc


Not talking about tools now, just systems and signals.
  • #98
  • Aug 27, 2011 5:27pm Aug 27, 2011 5:27pm
Quoting josef
Interesting, there are only few people in between. 43% won't give money for forex tools and 49% ready to pay a lot of money.
Outside of the financial 'how much are you willing to pay" there is the emotional 'how much are you willing to pay".

Then there is the "how much are you willing to sacrifice?" Career? Relationships? etc, etc...
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #99
  • Aug 27, 2011 8:09pm Aug 27, 2011 8:09pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
It is my hope and dream that one day I can afford $3000/hr hookers though.
$3k a month will get you a nice arrangement with a poor coed. Ooh daddy I need some new shoes (dental work, tuition, day at the spa, etc.) Better than a nasty hooker though - maybe she'll even fall in luv wit you. Then, good used wood chipper run ya bout $800.

I was just catching up on taxes today - I know exactly what I have spent on forex stuff since I started: 2009: about $600 for books and the S-corp fees. 2010: about $900 for books, S-corp fees, monitors, subscriptions, etc. 2011: about $500 so far, same stuff. Lots of those books are options-related, though... most of the books will be on eby soon and my appetite for trading books is smaller and smaller....

I want tio get the offshore corporation up and running this year, not sure how much that is going to cost - probably $5k or so, still researching.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #100
  • Aug 27, 2011 10:25pm Aug 27, 2011 10:25pm
Yes there is a lot of stuff out there for free, I started trading the S&P eminis I purchased a guy's course for about 40.00 plus he would mentor if needed, great deal, then I went on to break every rule he taught me and blowing up a few accounts....after a few years I paid about 200.00 for a course...that course really brought everything together for me, how and why indicators work or why price moves and what not...I think free is good, but free info without guidance can send you down a treacherous path of half knowledge, which in turn can slow down your growth in the industry....
Never been vouched
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