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Forex trading platform that doesn't take your ideas

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 23, 2011 5:19am Aug 23, 2011 5:19am
Ninja trader, Metatrader, Tradestation all can copy the EA and indicators straight out of your PC.

How do we go about developing a system where this can't happen?
  • #2
  • Aug 23, 2011 6:21am Aug 23, 2011 6:21am
Quoting StephanusR
Ninja trader, Metatrader, Tradestation all can copy the EA and indicators straight out of your PC.

How do we go about developing a system where this can't happen?
manual trading, nah that would require commitment....
  • #3
  • Edited 12:49pm Aug 23, 2011 12:16pm | Edited 12:49pm
I don't think the risk is as great as it might seem.

I can only speak about MT4; I've never used Ninja or TS.

Firstly, is it really possible for a br0ker to actually seize your EX4 files (assuming that, if you were worried, you'd take the precaution of moving your MQ4 files offline)? I would have thought that the only traffic that takes place between br0ker and trader was the order details.

And even if it were possible, he would still need to decompile the EX4 to obtain the source. Then, given that decompilers can't reconstruct the source perfectly (variable names are substituted by meaningless tokens like A004, A008, etc, for example), it would take even more work than usual to reverse engineer the rationale behind the code.

And even if he were able and willing to do this, would it be worth his while? In the case of indicators, one still needs to know how to use them profitably, i.e. to fashion them together into a profitable system of entries and exits. And in the case of EAs, virtually all of them crash and burn, given enough time - several years of changing markets. The br0ker meanwhile makes money without any risk or additional effort, by simply pocketing spreads and swap differentials. He'd arguably be better off spending his time and effort soliciting more client business, than trying to reverse engineer their ideas.

I think it would need to be an amazingly good idea to make it worth stealing, and that's assuming that the br0ker had the expertise and inclination to do so.
  • #4
  • Aug 23, 2011 12:39pm Aug 23, 2011 12:39pm
Quoting StephanusR
Ninja trader, Metatrader, Tradestation all can copy the EA and indicators straight out of your PC.

How do we go about developing a system where this can't happen?
Are you sure they even can do that?
  • #5
  • Aug 23, 2011 12:52pm Aug 23, 2011 12:52pm
Quoting 6pack
Are you sure they even can do that?
Popper falsifiability.
  • #6
  • Aug 23, 2011 2:43pm Aug 23, 2011 2:43pm
Quoting StephanusR
Popper falsifiability.
first off, if its a small edge... consider all the EA's out there and when someones going to sit down to steal yours

second.. if it is a huge edge.. then just test it and such but trade manually because you'd be able to quit your day job anyways

third, the brokers that have manager metatraders can tell the program to hit your stop(can also see your stops) so that would be a bigger concern possibly
  • #7
  • Aug 23, 2011 2:55pm Aug 23, 2011 2:55pm
Quoting StephanusR
Ninja trader, Metatrader, Tradestation all can copy the EA and indicators straight out of your PC.

How do we go about developing a system where this can't happen?
I wouldn't really worry too much about a forex trading platform or broker stealing your ideas.

In order for them to do that, they would need to first identify that your trade signals are worth following. They need to determine whether your system is truly good or whether you are just on a hot streak and about to blow up.

Secondly, they usually do not have the capital available to copy cat your ideas. They are brokers, not hedge funds, and thus are not going to execute hundreds of millions and billions of dollars to copycat your orders.

Thirdly, the tens of millions, hundreds of millions, and billions of dollars in the forex market are generally not made through forex robots. They are made through global macro trading. And global macro trading has existed for decades and will exist indefinitely into the future no matter how much someone attempts to steal your ideas.

People are just not that efficient.

Lastly, if your trading system is that good, then you should be able to get together enough money to get out of the Ninjatraders, Metatraders, and Tradestations of the world and go on the prime broker platforms.

As a general rule I would much more worry about figuring out how to create an insanely profitable system rather than worrying about if someone is going to steal the idea.

That being said, I am not a programmer/quant and not involved in the algorithms, so I am unsure how that would affect your concerns.

Discretionary traders don't need to worry about it as much.
Private message me for a link to my order flow website.
  • #8
  • Aug 23, 2011 3:10pm Aug 23, 2011 3:10pm
Quoting StephanusR
Ninja trader, Metatrader, Tradestation all can copy the EA and indicators straight out of your PC.

How do we go about developing a system where this can't happen?
You get what you think about. Your anticipation invites it. Fear the stealing long enough, do things based on that, and the stealing will manifest in your life experience. If I were you I'd think about it the other way around ;-)
The tone of your words reflects the quality and result of your trading ;-)
  • #9
  • Aug 23, 2011 3:34pm Aug 23, 2011 3:34pm
Quoting hanover
And even if it were possible, he would still need to decompile the EX4 to obtain the source. Then, given that decompilers can't reconstruct the source perfectly (variable names are substituted by meaningless tokens like A004, A008, etc, for example), it would take even more work than usual to reverse engineer the rationale behind the code.
that's hardly a concern for anyone worth their salt in programming. crackers have for decades read assembler and patched out all kinds of program 'features'.

i know i, for one, am with stephanusr and have my collection of tin foil hats ready to wear at a moments notice. i have one for each day of the week, just to make sure it's harder for the space psychics to hack my tin foil brain firewall.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #10
  • Aug 23, 2011 3:49pm Aug 23, 2011 3:49pm
Quoting nubcake
that's hardly a concern for anyone worth their salt in programming. crackers have for decades read assembler and patched out all kinds of program 'features'.

i know i, for one, am with stephanusr and have my collection of tin foil hats ready to wear at a moments notice. i have one for each day of the week, just to make sure it's harder for the space psychics to hack my tin foil brain firewall.
Forgive me in advance; I also have a problem with space psychics but did you mean to say that you were your tinfoil hat so they can't hack your cracker head brain?
Well, at least that's the case with myself.

Thank you
  • #11
  • Aug 23, 2011 4:14pm Aug 23, 2011 4:14pm
Quoting egadsforex
Forgive me in advance; I also have a problem with space psychics but did you mean to say that you were your tinfoil hat so they can't hack your cracker head brain?
Well, at least that's the case with myself.

Thank you
it's also good for hiding bed head hair, and i have my suspicions that it helps you to control the weather if you concentrate hard enough.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #12
  • Last Post: Aug 23, 2011 4:18pm Aug 23, 2011 4:18pm
Quoting nubcake
it's also good for hiding bed head hair, and i have my suspicions that it helps you to control the weather if you concentrate hard enough.
Regardless.... I HATE that bed head hair !! I'll work on that concentration part.

Thank you.
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