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  • #481
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:03am Aug 18, 2011 10:03am
Quoting pip_seeker
In some cases you might find the numbers to be right which is why I suggested to take pictures multiple times go as far as you want to go with it if you want to close some trades out as well doesn't matter that much, once the errors are there closing trades will not magically erase the errors.

The main reason I know of the discrepancy is that I've tracked DD within my EA's for YEARS. This shouldn't be any big secret, it's common sense IMHO.
I don't understand that, why would there still be errors when you are completely flat?

Yeah, I am not that smart, thus my common sense is down the toilet. Would love to hear an explanation on the "errors" you talk about.
  • #482
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:36am Aug 18, 2011 10:36am
Quoting Custos
I don't understand that, why would there still be errors when you are completely flat?

Yeah, I am not that smart, thus my common sense is down the toilet. Would love to hear an explanation on the "errors" you talk about.

I already gave you an easy method for you to think for yourself but you are too lazy for that.

Good luck to you.
  • #483
  • Aug 18, 2011 11:30am Aug 18, 2011 11:30am
Hi all, im a complete noob in everything regarding trading and investing. I have started to study hard forex-trading.
My question is, if my pipedream is to become a daytrader; should i focus on stock trading or forex trading? Does anyone do both as a day trader?

And is day trading, assuming you trade, stocks for example, called scalping?

sorry, had to gather all the stupid questions into one post !
  • #484
  • Aug 18, 2011 1:18pm Aug 18, 2011 1:18pm
Quoting neppari
Hi all, im a complete noob in everything regarding trading and investing. I have started to study hard forex-trading.
My question is, if my pipedream is to become a daytrader; should i focus on stock trading or forex trading? Does anyone do both as a day trader?

And is day trading, assuming you trade, stocks for example, called scalping?

sorry, had to gather all the stupid questions into one post !
I think the trading costs for stock trading are higher than for forex trading. So forex trading might be preferred. However, from what I heard, the real way to go for a daytrader is to trade futures.

No, traditionally scalping means to trade very low time-frames, like 1 min and 5 min. However, I believe scalping can even be extended to the monthly charts. You can as well scalp higher time-frames. Scalping generally refers to just taking a small junk out of a move. Always shooting for small profits. Obviously small profits on 5 min (maybe 5 to 10 pips a trade) are different from small profits from monthly charts (100 to 1000 pips a trade).
  • #485
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:07pm Aug 18, 2011 2:07pm
oh come ON man. seriously... come on!!!

i was going to reply when i saw the question earlier, but thought someone else surely would answer correctly. everything, and i mean everything, you just said is wrong!

Quoting Custos
I think the trading costs for stock trading are higher than for forex trading.
in the same way that forex ECN brokers charge a set commission to trade with them trading stocks through a broker incurs set commissions which are usually a flat fee, therefore, the larger dollar expectancy per round trip trade the lower the commission is in terms of percentage it chews off of the trade! the BIGGER you trade the LOWER the respective trading commissions are in comparison!!! that's why forex is so filled with muppets... all you need is 10 bux and you have an account and are a big bad trader taking on the worlds currencies, whereas in stock trading if you are getting charged 10 bux per trade (20 per buy then sell round trip) such as with interactive brokers who are one of THE cheapest people to trade through then you HAVE to aim for returns on each trade significantly higher than 20 bux! undercapitalization in share trading is a REAL thing, unlike the way it's touted on places like here when referring to forex which has such low entry fees to the whole thing that you can get away with tooling with pennies. if you are only aiming to make 20 bux per trade with shares then you are flat on a winning trade due to trading costs alone!


Quote
So forex trading might be preferred. However, from what I heard, the real way to go for a daytrader is to trade futures.
that's probably more a function of liquidity and volatility. anyone with sufficient capital to make trades that overshadow the transaction costs of buying and selling with their broker can trade whatever they want, but why bother trading a dead stock that doesn't move when you can trade the most popular and most liquid game in town that everyone is having a piece of!

Quote
No, traditionally scalping means to trade very low time-frames, like 1 min and 5 min. However, I believe scalping can even be extended to the monthly charts. You can as well scalp higher time-frames. Scalping generally refers to just taking a small junk out of a move. Always shooting for small profits. Obviously small profits on 5 min (maybe 5 to 10 pips a trade) are different from small profits from monthly charts (100 to 1000 pips a trade).
NO!!!!!!! this is beyond wrong. in the TRADITIONAL sense scalping is buying on the bid and selling on the ask to gain both small movements in the traded instrument as well as the spread. traditional scalping is basically being a micro market maker... they BECOME a part of the order book, and therefore become a part of the liquidity and are a part of what MAKES the market at the levels the scalper is trading at.

you don't 'scalp' a monthly chart! are you high? do you think the guys in the pits were scalping monthly charts? they weren't even using charts due to scalping the market movements of the last few moments!

scalping nowadays is used by heroes trading 1min and tick charts, even if they aren't able to make the spread and are trading retail. they'd be better off referring to themselves simply as intraday traders, instead of trying to imply something they aren't by calling themselves scalpers. i'm sure there are some actual forex scalpers who are trading large volume through ECN's and actually are becoming a part of the order book (and sometimes getting rebates for being limit orders on the book on top of the smaller spread and other ECN advantages).

a disadvantage of trading shares is when you really are buying and selling a share of some company... you generally get a transaction certificate for each buy and sell. i suspect, though am not certain, that CFD's don't incur this paperwork since you aren't actually participating in the actual market and are playing a shadow game instead.

i really don't know how you manage to keep being wrong about so much related to trading! now, please tell me i'm wrong like usual
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #486
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:18pm Aug 18, 2011 2:18pm
Quoting nubcake
oh come ON man. seriously... come on!!!

i was going to reply when i saw the question earlier, but thought someone else surely would answer correctly. everything, and i mean everything, you just said is wrong!

in the same way that forex ECN brokers charge a set commission to trade with them trading stocks through a broker incurs set commissions which are usually a flat fee, therefore, the larger dollar expectancy per round trip trade the lower the commission is in terms of percentage it chews off of the trade! the BIGGER...
don't get so worked up man, you have nothing else to do?

well, all I said was just my opinion. But you are right, I am not quite informed about the commissions in stock trading, so it was just my assumption.

again, with futures trading, as I said, I just heard it is the preferred instrument for scalping.

good that you educated me about the real meaning of the original scalping. I never gave scalping much thought, that is why I am also not that informed like you are.

man, you really need to chill out. Not that you get a heart attack from answering forum posts.
Well, and you are not always wrong, just sometimes, haha
  • #487
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:24pm Aug 18, 2011 2:24pm
Quoting Custos
don't get so worked up man, you have nothing else to do?

well, all I said was just my opinion. But you are right, I am not quite informed about the commissions in stock trading, so it was just my assumption.

again, with futures trading, as I said, I just heard it is the preferred instrument for scalping.

good that you educated me about the real meaning of the original scalping. I never gave scalping much thought, that is why I am also not that informed like you are.

man, you really need to chill out. Not that you get a heart attack from answering...
an assumption is wasted when actual fact is required and available!

i get worked-up because you speak with authority on matters you don't actually have any understanding about!

why shouldn't i get worked-up when so much misinformation gets spewed hourly on this forum! this place... it is like everything is reversed from reality. this forum is bizarro world where fact goes to die and fiction is the norm! i know it's not just this forum, but this is where i am, so rage i will when lies are printed as fact which continually insults my desire for intelligent, creative, and knowledgeable discussions!

Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #488
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:31pm Aug 18, 2011 2:31pm
Quoting pip_seeker
Yeah there I go "pretending like I know something eh?"

When you can't even follow simple directions to show yourself the error. This isn't about me doing all the work. I've pointed you in the direction do the work for yourself.

My posts are crap because you lack the motivation to think and understand for yourself what I am saying... is that really my fault?

(the error is the miscalculation as shown within the account statement.)
but I still don't understand this error thing. If I realized all my losses and these were really miscalculated, then the final account value on the account statement would differ from your actual account value, which you see on the platform. That I don't understand, I never saw a discrepancy between that. Or are you saying that the account value after closing losing trades is not correct?

Anyways, I am gonna look at my statement and look for an error in the calculation.
  • #489
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:36pm Aug 18, 2011 2:36pm
Quoting nubcake
an assumption is wasted when actual fact is required and available!

i get worked-up because you speak with authority on matters you don't actually have any understanding about!

why shouldn't i get worked-up when so much misinformation gets spewed hourly on this forum! this place... it is like everything is reversed from reality. this forum is bizarro world where fact goes to die and fiction is the norm! i know it's not just this forum, but this is where i am, so rage i will when lies are printed as fact which continually insults my...
If I don't have an understanding about stuff I normally start my sentence with "in my opinion" or "I think". So I think in that case I don't speak as an authority, since it is just my personal belief.

Haha, dude, this is just a virtual forum. If you already get worked up because of some posts you don't like, then I don't want to see how you react when a real world problem strikes you. haha

Anyways, chill out a bit more, this is just a forum.
  • #490
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:43pm Aug 18, 2011 2:43pm
Quoting Custos
but I still don't understand this error thing. If I realized all my losses and these were really miscalculated, then the final account value on the account statement would differ from your actual account value, which you see on the platform. That I don't understand, I never saw a discrepancy between that. Or are you saying that the account value after closing losing trades is not correct?

Anyways, I am gonna look at my statement and look for an error in the calculation.

ok in baby ga-ga goo-goo kindergarten terms:

you open a trade that has stop loss 100 pips.

the trade goes negative 95 pips turns then closes for profit of 100 pips.

What is your DD? easy 95 pips. What will the statement show as DD after the trade is closed? You answer that one.

Multiply this times many trades, figure in occasional losses along the way... there is no way any DD figure on a statement will be accurate plain and simple because it is a static number on the statement when in fact it's a random number in the real sense of it all.




  • #491
  • Aug 18, 2011 2:46pm Aug 18, 2011 2:46pm
Quoting pip_seeker
ok in baby ga-ga goo-goo kindergarten terms:

you open a trade that has stop loss 100 pips.

the trade goes negative 95 pips turns then closes for profit of 100 pips.

What is your DD? easy 95 pips. What will the statement show as DD after the trade is closed? You answer that one.

[size=3]Multiply this times many trades, figure in occasional losses along the way... there is no way any DD figure on a statement will be accurate plain and simple because it is a static number on the...
okay, so we go back to my original point that you actually talk about floating losses versus actual losses, or floating DD versus actual closed DD.

not a new or spectacular insight.
  • #492
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:06pm Aug 18, 2011 3:06pm
Quoting Custos
Anyways, chill out a bit more, this is just a forum.
a forum with the lowest of standards and the lowest of offerings. sick of it, and as such i post less and less these days, and regret when i do choose to type. i only hope that along the way i come across a few good folk who have the right knowledge who can inspire me.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #493
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:18pm Aug 18, 2011 3:18pm
Quoting nubcake
a forum with the lowest of standards and the lowest of offerings. sick of it, and as such i post less and less these days, and regret when i do choose to type. i only hope that along the way i come across a few good folk who have the right knowledge who can inspire me.
well, I already recommended the book in other posts, but for you I post it again,
http://www.amazon.com/Diary-Professi.../dp/0470521457

I personally found it very interesting and quite enlightening. Maybe it could point you into a good direction.
However, the author is not earning a thousand percent a year.
  • #494
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:30pm Aug 18, 2011 3:30pm
Quoting Custos
well, I already recommended the book in other posts, but for you I post it again,
http://www.amazon.com/Diary-Professi.../dp/0470521457

I personally found it very interesting and quite enlightening. Maybe it could point you into a good direction.
However, the author is not earning a thousand percent a year.
just reading the reviews and i already don't want to read the book for a few reasons. i'd prefer to read a book written by someone who has been scalping for a few years making money hand over fist which of course will never ever be written, not more musings from someone toying in the market for awhile using the old and busted 'shapes' style of trading... i could just go read the journal section of the factory for that :S
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #495
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:34pm Aug 18, 2011 3:34pm
Quoting nubcake
just reading the reviews and i already don't want to read the book for a few reasons. i'd prefer to read a book written by someone who has been scalping for a few years making money hand over fist which of course will never ever be written, not more musings from someone toying in the market for awhile using the old and busted 'shapes' style of trading... i could just go read the journal section of the factory for that :S
okay man
  • #496
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:34pm Aug 18, 2011 3:34pm
Quoting Custos
okay, so we go back to my original point that you actually talk about floating losses versus actual losses, or floating DD versus actual closed DD.

not a new or spectacular insight.
well it's like I said before it's common sense and yes I did say it was nothing new. So now all you choose to do is repeat what I already said.

Is it not an error? Doesn't matter if it is floating or not, the result is skewed and every example I have seen skewed to favor the broker because you see the DD number and think you can trade more safely.

That is the whole point in what I said.
  • #497
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:44pm Aug 18, 2011 3:44pm
Quoting pip_seeker
well it's like I said before it's common sense and yes I did say it was nothing new. So now all you choose to do is repeat what I already said.

Is it not an error? Doesn't matter if it is floating or not, the result is skewed and every example I have seen skewed to favor the broker because you see the DD number and think you can trade more safely.

That is the whole point in what I said.
If at all, then I repeated my original point, but your reply of my original point about actual losses vs. floating losses was so confusing that I had no idea what you actually mean.
Some people prefer to make things complicated I guess.

I don't know where that should be an error. An account statement always just shows close to close equity curves and doesn't show hypothetical floating profits or losses.
I don't see where this is only skewed to the broker. I could well reverse your example and say that price went 95 pips in my favor only to end in a loss later. Then you can't see the floating profits you had.

I still think, in the end all that matters is the actual closed DD, except if you are always trading really high junks and are close to margin calls, then of course the floating DD is also important. If I have data of +10,000 trades, then why should I care about floating DD, I just wanna know how much my actual DD will be at the end of the day.
But I guess it also depends on the system as I always intend to keep my floating DD really really small and cancel out trades that immediately go against me. So you might be right, for some systems floating DD might also be important.
  • #498
  • Aug 18, 2011 3:57pm Aug 18, 2011 3:57pm
Quoting pip_seeker
well it's like I said before it's common sense and yes I did say it was nothing new. So now all you choose to do is repeat what I already said.

Is it not an error? Doesn't matter if it is floating or not, the result is skewed and every example I have seen skewed to favor the broker because you see the DD number and think you can trade more safely.

That is the whole point in what I said.
i mentioned earlier that i thought you were referring to floating losses. since then you have not acknowledged this and have chosen to be cryptic about it to spark a fight.

it's not an error. you are referring to a metric which is simply not tracked! period. on top of that, it shouldn't even matter! if someone is consistent with their trading approach then over enough samples they will get an idea of peak to trough anyway, so ONE extra push in the drawdown direction due to the lowest floating equity point the lowest trade in the drawdown reached should not matter in the scheme of things.

if the drawdown is so bad, and trades managed so badly, that the floating loss on the worst floating drawdown trade is significantly different to the quoted closed drawdown then the 'trader' is going to get what's coming to them anyway.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #499
  • Aug 20, 2011 3:39pm Aug 20, 2011 3:39pm
Quoting Custos
well, I already recommended the book in other posts, but for you I post it again,
http://www.amazon.com/Diary-Professi.../dp/0470521457

I personally found it very interesting and quite enlightening. Maybe it could point you into a good direction.
However, the author is not earning a thousand percent a year.
ok just read some of what is available, and you couldn't PAY me to read the rest of this garbage. seriously disappointing. i can totally see why you would find some value in it.... but only in that his opinions validate your own limited expectations of trading. just like every broke-ass wannabe who can't get a single trade to get into profit finds solace in other people who claim that trading is rigged, brokers hunt your stops, and no one AT ALL makes money from trading and it's all a scam! like-minded people find comfort in others of their own kind. you don't go looking at turtles to try and deduce how to fly.

i wouldn't wipe my butt with the paper from this book. sorry.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #500
  • Aug 20, 2011 8:56pm Aug 20, 2011 8:56pm
Quoting nubcake
i mentioned earlier that i thought you were referring to floating losses. since then you have not acknowledged this and have chosen to be cryptic about it to spark a fight.

it's not an error. you are referring to a metric which is simply not tracked! period.

Cryptic? giving you instructions to repeat the error? Trying to start a fight by calling you lazy? yeah ok I can give you that one.

It can't be tracked because as I said already it is a "static" number that is printed on the statement, when in fact the number is "random". This is a newbie thread right? How would a newbie know this information... but yet I am trying to start a fight by calling attention to this error.

Brilliant man, brilliant.

PS: In my world the numbers are either right or wrong... maybe this is the difference you seek?
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