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Pippo: A Murrey Maths Retrace EA

  • #101
  • Aug 13, 2011 12:29pm Aug 13, 2011 12:29pm
Sandovich:

Great contribution. The hedge worries the hell out of me, and this could make the robot safe enough for live trading.
  • #102
  • Aug 14, 2011 9:20am Aug 14, 2011 9:20am
Hi,

New to posting in this thread although I have been following both this and Steves original Pippo thread since the start.

I am still using one of Steves versions of Pippo, the one where he added magic numbers, and have found it to be profitable for a month on demo and have now gone live with it.

The demo grew from 3k to 10k in that month.

3k has increased to 3500 in under a week with only 1 hedge trade.

My contributions if I may, I hope they will be of use to both Dietcokes and Steves users.

Hedging: I use 1 as the multiplier to lock the loss at a limit and deal with it later when the market shows direction.

I reset Pippo after a hedge trade happens by increasing the magic number by 1. This allows Pippo to create new MM lines,continue working and ignore the hedged trades. I do this twice a day as needed, when I get up in the morning which is around NY open and again at night after the NY close. I find that this gives the market time to settle down to a new set of levels.

To reduce the deficit in the old trade I use NanningBobs methods, CTR or Trend when I can see a clear direction. I add to or reduce the profitable side of the hedge by 20-25% at a time until the deficit is cleared and then clear both sides of the hedge out. Winner and loser.

The benefit to doing things this way, for me at least, is that the loss is limited and there is no rush to clear the trade as Pippo is still able to do it's work on that pair.

I currently close all trades at the end of the week, but am considering whether to just let Pippo run over the weekends.

Lot sizes: I use 01,03,08 and .12.
These lot sizes make the 2nd level trades more profitable, which I have found to be the most common. 1st level trades have a lower success rate. 3rd level trades also. The 4th Level multiplier is lower (2X the other 3) as this level, if it succeeds, only closes out at breakeven and it reduces the size of hedging needed if it fails.

I use a base of 70% for my take profit level, but vary this by a few % points in either direction to stop the broker seeing a pattern. P is set at 72 which is 3 days of bars on a 1hr chart.

I also have the NB dashboard as Posted above by Sandovich and find it helpful in determining trade style required for clearing out failed hedges, although I don't use it to select which pairs to trade. I trade all the pairs available.
I will look further into his method of only trading ranging pairs.

My apologies to Dietcoke for not updating my version of Pippo to his system, but I like the simplicity and success rate of the older version.

A template that combines both the MM lines and NB's TMA, RWB indicator and MA's is attached. Having both systems on chart lets Pippo do it's job and allows me to trade out of the hedge when conditions are right.

Rik
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl #pippo-nb1.tpl   12 KB | 592 downloads
  • #103
  • Aug 14, 2011 10:05am Aug 14, 2011 10:05am
Wow, Panamax! Brilliant.

D.C. has a slot for Magic number. May I presume this will work with the
Panamax system?
  • #104
  • Aug 14, 2011 10:37am Aug 14, 2011 10:37am
Quoting winsteadglenn
Wow, Panamax! Brilliant.

D.C. has a slot for Magic number. May I presume this will work with the
Panamax system?
I would think so, but not having used DC's system I can only suggest you test it for yourself and report back for the benefit of others.

I have set a base # of 11 in Pippo and also a comment of P1. I just change these to 12 and P2 so I can see at a glance which trades are which in my acct.

Rik
  • #105
  • Aug 14, 2011 3:57pm Aug 14, 2011 3:57pm
Quoting PanaMax
Hi,

New to posting in this thread .....


....and allows me to trade out of the hedge when conditions are right.

Rik

This is super stuff PanaMax and I'll respond in detail later. Just out of interest, what timeframe are you trading?
  • #106
  • Aug 14, 2011 4:11pm Aug 14, 2011 4:11pm
Quoting dietcoke
This is super stuff PanaMax and I'll respond in detail later. Just out of interest, what timeframe are you trading?
I trade Pippo on the 1hr, but also look at the higher timeframes when having to recover from a hedge.

Rik
  • #107
  • Aug 14, 2011 6:07pm Aug 14, 2011 6:07pm
Quoting PanaMax
3k has increased to 3500 in under a week with only 1 hedge trade.
Just wondering about where the hedge trade came up. When I run my MML indicator with the period you use. I 2 potential hedge trades last week. see attached charts

Quoting PanaMax
I reset Pippo after a hedge trade happens by increasing the magic number by 1. This allows Pippo to create new MM lines,continue working and ignore the hedged trades. I do this twice a day as needed, when I get up in the morning which is around NY open and again at night after the NY close. I find that this gives the market time to settle down to a new set of levels.
You've just made a lot of people very happy with this idea. Using a new magic number when the lines redraw will be dead easy to code. Fantastic idea. Thank you.



Quoting PanaMax
To reduce the deficit in the old trade I use NanningBobs methods, CTR or Trend when I can see a clear direction. I add to or reduce the profitable side of the hedge by 20-25% at a time until the deficit is cleared and then clear both sides of the hedge out. Winner and loser.

The benefit to doing things this way, for me at least, is that the loss is limited and there is no rush to clear the trade as Pippo is still able to do it's work on that pair.
Again. Spot on. I've considering adding some form of NB recovery to pippo but have not because sometimes increasing the hedge is best and there is no room in Pippo for a big big loser as the individual trade profits are too small to cover a real bad one.



Quoting PanaMax
Lot sizes: I use 01,03,08 and .12.
These lot sizes make the 2nd level trades more profitable, which I have found to be the most common. 1st level trades have a lower success rate. 3rd level trades also. The 4th Level multiplier is lower (2X the other 3) as this level, if it succeeds, only closes out at breakeven and it reduces the size of hedging needed if it fails.
The template has 0.16 which one is the typo?
I have done some work this weekend on which level gets the most winners. I've only done two pairs and have been working on M15 but I tend to agree that the second level does get the most completions.

I found that the 1st level was second and not far behind and the 3rd and 4th were not very profitable.

I don't think personally, the Lot4 is profitable and it's quite possible that lot3 is the same.

I think this whole are of lot sizing and which levels to trade is an area for research.


Quoting PanaMax
I also have the NB dashboard as Posted above by Sandovich and find it helpful in determining trade style required for clearing out failed hedges, although I don't use it to select which pairs to trade. I trade all the pairs available.
I will look further into his method of only trading ranging pairs.
There are definitely some pairs which trade pippo better than others. However, this is only because they break the lines more often.
You seem to have a very passable route out of troublesome trades which could make this much safer to trade.

Quoting PanaMax
My apologies to Dietcoke for not updating my version of Pippo to his system, but I like the simplicity and success rate of the older version.
No problem. Although mine can set up to work in pretty much the same way.


Quoting PanaMax
A template that combines both the MM lines and NB's TMA, RWB indicator and MA's is attached. Having both systems on chart lets Pippo do it's job and allows me to trade out of the hedge when conditions are right.
Could you post the indicators on the template please. I'm sure I could dig them up from one the NB threads but there are so many versions of these kicking around, there would be no guarantee I'd have the same one.





One question. How do you deal with orpahaned trades, which have not reached the hedgelevel but the lines redraw and the new lines are not in the trading bands?
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurchf_h1.gif Size: 15 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: usdchf_h1.GIF Size: 17 KB
  • #108
  • Edited 9:38pm Aug 14, 2011 9:23pm | Edited 9:38pm
Sorry for the late response, been away from the puter for a few hours having a bevvy.

The trade that ended up in a hedge was on the EUR/GBP pair, the buy just got hit by the spike on aug 11th. I recovered about 1/3 of the defecit before closing both sides of the trade for the weekend.

I'm not sure if coding in the reset of the magic# is a good idea or not, makes life simple, but allowing a few hours to elapse gives time for the market to settle down after a spike. Once the trade is locked into a hedge there is no rush to sort out the deficit apart from swap costs.

The 12 at level 4 is a typo based on last weeks trading, although I am going to change to it this week once I get settled back in to trading.

I've not had any orphaned trades yet so that is something I will have to work out when it happens.

Looking at my acct tonight, a hedge trade has happened on GBP/JPY so that has got to be worked on during the week, Not sure why as pippo is showing it in band 12 without doing a reset. However, my total drawdown over 12 pairs is currently under 200 and my balance is up almost 90 since trading started 5hrs ago.

The TMA indi is attached. The RWB is a stock metatrader Macd indi with the bars blanked out and 2 stoch oscilators overlaid on it, settings can be seen on the template. The MAs are a 240 to show an approximation of the daily trend and a 5 for the current direction.

Rik
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 TMA.ex4   10 KB | 409 downloads
File Type: mq4 TMA.mq4   8 KB | 487 downloads
  • #109
  • Aug 14, 2011 9:54pm Aug 14, 2011 9:54pm
Here's the GBP/JPY chart with the hedge trade.

Like I said above I don't know why pippo made the buy but now I have to get out of the loss created. The hedge is at 0.24 lots.

What I will wait for is the price going below the 5ma, and also the white stoch coming out of the oversold area. When that happens I will add a .06 sell with a target of the center TMA line as that is currently rising. If the center TMA was falling I would target the dotted green offset. This wont completely remove the deficit but will take a bite out of it. Then look for another setup to take another bite. The reason for looking to short is the 240 ma is still showing a downtrend on the daily, although it is not visible in the screenshot.

Rik
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpjpy1h.gif Size: 23 KB
  • #110
  • Aug 15, 2011 1:28am Aug 15, 2011 1:28am
Panamax

Are you suggesting that we use NB Trend trading system as a filter on Pippo?
It's an interesting idea... maybe a higher timeframe NB TMA trend v1.0 signal stops a Pippo reversal trade?
  • #111
  • Aug 15, 2011 2:21pm Aug 15, 2011 2:21pm
A friend suggested I visit this thread.
It has been stated that the EA cannot be backtested.
The reason given is not the only one and that one might be workable as well.
It was stated that the EA can be tested in Visual mode. If that is the case then it should be able to test outside of visual mode with some changes.
This is especailly true if the MM lines are be calculated in the EA which appears to be the case the v17.
I will add code that will display the lines only in Visual mode when backtesting as a further test. This will speed up the tester as well.

Any EA that looks at trades that have been closed by using MODE_HISTORY from OrderSwelect will not work because there is no history in the backtester. I coded an EA for a client that needed to know information from the most recent closed trade and using history did not work. I was able to fix the problem by saving the values from the recent open trade in Global Variables. When no trades were open I could then access the values.

I also have a question about trading times. At present it looks like only morning and afternoon are available. I have code that allows trading three sessions and can even include times like 2300 to 200 for the Asian session.

Would this be useful??

Robert Hill aka MrPip
Professional MT4 Programmer
  • #112
  • Aug 15, 2011 3:10pm Aug 15, 2011 3:10pm
Robert: It is a pleasure to see you here. We can all benefit from your experience and superb coding skills. Glenn
  • #113
  • Aug 15, 2011 3:41pm Aug 15, 2011 3:41pm
Quoting MrPip
A friend suggested I visit this thread.
It has been stated that the EA cannot be backtested.
The reason given is not the only one and that one might be workable as well.
It was stated that the EA can be tested in Visual mode. If that is the case then it should be able to test outside of visual mode with some changes.
This is especailly true if the MM lines are be calculated in the EA which appears to be the case the v17.
I will add code that will display the lines only in Visual mode when backtesting as a further test. This will speed up the...

The lines are not calulated the EA. I just save them to a GlobalVariable when a trade is opened.

I tried to bring the indicator into the EA at one point but the way the indicator works, it only caluclates the lines under certain circumstances(ie. not on every tick). This means it needs some history(enough to ensure 1 redraw) to be accurate at the current point.

Having said that, if you can come up with a way to allow backtesting, that would be really good news.

Quoting MrPip
Any EA that looks at trades that have been closed by using MODE_HISTORY from OrderSwelect will not work because there is no history in the backtester. I coded an EA for a client that needed to know information from the most recent closed trade and using history did not work. I was able to fix the problem by saving the values from the recent open trade in Global Variables. When no trades were open I could then access the values.

I also have a question about trading times. At present it looks like only morning and afternoon are available. I have...
If you have a better module for trading times, I'd be happy to use it. I just copy/pasted this from one of steve's other EA's.

The mode_history stuff isn't really used by the code. It's there because Steve put it in the original code to deal with a situation
which can occur when opening a trade. It shouldn't be too hard to wrap it in some "IsTesting" code to avoid problems in backtest
  • #114
  • Aug 15, 2011 5:51pm Aug 15, 2011 5:51pm
Quoting MrPip
A friend suggested I visit this thread.
It has been stated that the EA cannot be backtested.
The reason given is not the only one and that one might be workable as well.
It was stated that the EA can be tested in Visual mode. If that is the case then it should be able to test outside of visual mode with some changes.
This is especailly true if the MM lines are be calculated in the EA which appears to be the case the v17.
I will add code that will display the lines only in Visual mode when backtesting as a further test. This will speed up the tester...
For those who don't know it, Robert Hill is one of the most skilled and accomplished MT4 programmers I am aware of. It is extremely fortunate to have him offering to help. Believe me, this is a rare opportunity.

I also belong to the Yahoo MT_E and I forum and there he has helped literally hundreds of people struggling to understand MT4 coding.

Thanks Robert for your interest here.

Dave R.
  • #115
  • Aug 15, 2011 6:33pm Aug 15, 2011 6:33pm
Quoting droland
For those who don't know it, Robert Hill is one of the most skilled and accomplished MT4 programmers I am aware of. It is extremely fortunate to have him offering to help. Believe me, this is a rare opportunity.

I also belong to the Yahoo MT_E and I forum and there he has helped literally hundreds of people struggling to understand MT4 coding.

Thanks Robert for your interest here.

Dave R.
Wow!

What can I say except thanks for the offer of help?
  • #116
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:17am Aug 16, 2011 9:17am
DietCoke

I can't find any trend filter options in the V17.1 EA that were mentioned in V16 are they hidden ?
  • #117
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:38am Aug 16, 2011 9:38am
Quoting Sandovich
DietCoke

I can't find any trend filter options in the V17.1 EA that were mentioned in V16 are they hidden ?
I took them out as I thought they were hitting the performance of 16.

They were never active anyway, just calculated for display with a view to possibly incorporating them as a filter

I am currently considering exactly how Pippo should filter trades and i'm thinking of something completely different.

If you really feel you need them back thiough, I'll put them in the next release provided they do not slow the EA down
  • #118
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:12am Aug 16, 2011 10:12am
I think automating the Panamax grid reset when hedging occurs, sounds great, D.C. What do you think of that?
  • #119
  • Aug 16, 2011 12:29pm Aug 16, 2011 12:29pm
Quoting dietcoke
I am currently considering exactly how Pippo should filter trades and i'm thinking of something completely different.

If you really feel you need them back though, I'll put them in the next release provided they do not slow the EA down
No need to put them back , I was just going to test them for you, I am playing with incorporating some of NanningBobsV10 system into the way I trade Pippo. If this reaps any good rewards I will share how I do it.
  • #120
  • Aug 18, 2011 4:03pm Aug 18, 2011 4:03pm
Hello dietcoke,

Thanks for opening this thread. At first glance It seems very similar to one of my templates. I will give it a full read at my first chance.

Thanks,

Johnny
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