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Virtual Dealer Plugin - Brokers Please read

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Dec 18, 2011 10:04am Jul 25, 2011 9:35am | Edited Dec 18, 2011 10:04am
Good Morning

Is there a Broker/Dealer that trades MT4 that can honestly guarantee that they do not use the Virtual Dealer Plugin?

1) No VDP.
2) Allow Scalping.
3) Does not care how much money I make.
4) Pays out withdrawals timeously.

Lets start with that.

Many Thanks
WhoDunIt

ps: Please folks, I am looking for Brokers that want to prove their honesty, I am NOT looking to start another thread on the evils of VDP.
  • #2
  • Jul 27, 2011 11:52pm Jul 27, 2011 11:52pm
Quoting WhoDunIt
Good Morning

Is there a Broker/Dealer that trades MT4 that can honestly guarantee that they do not use the Virtual Dealer Plugin?

1) No VDP.
2) Allow Scalping.
3) Does not care how much money I make.
4) Pays out withdrawals timeously.

Lets start with that.

Many Thanks
WhoDunIt

ps: Please folks, I am looking for Brokers that want to prove their honesty, I am NOT looking to start another thread on the evils of VDP.
  • #3
  • Aug 6, 2011 8:57am Aug 6, 2011 8:57am
Quoting WhoDunIt
Good Morning

Is there a Broker/Dealer that trades MT4 that can honestly guarantee that they do not use the Virtual Dealer Plugin?

1) No VDP.
2) Allow Scalping.
3) Does not care how much money I make.
4) Pays out withdrawals timeously.

Lets start with that.

Many Thanks
WhoDunIt

ps: Please folks, I am looking for Brokers that want to prove their honesty, I am NOT looking to start another thread on the evils of VDP.

OANDA: www.oanda.co.uk

They tick all your boxes and they do not use Boston Tech's VDP.
  • #4
  • Aug 10, 2011 2:12am Aug 10, 2011 2:12am
Hi Kate

Many thanks for the reply, do you know if there are any Oanda representatives on this Forum that wish to verify your statement and answer a few questions?

I am amazingly surprised at the lack of answers and the non participation of any brokers in this thread?

Thanks again
  • #5
  • Edited 2:58am Aug 10, 2011 2:20am | Edited 2:58am
I imagine the reason for the lack of responses is the true fact, most traders don't know even what the VDP is or have never asked their broker, even the seasoned pros. I am also checking into this so I will update you on what I find. I am currently looking at an IB called ATC Brokers and awaiting their response to two questions.

- Do you use the VPD, have they totally stripped it from your MT4
- Do they use Rous Technology

When I find those out I will be updating, I have done a reasonable amount of investigation and very few brokers elude either way. I do know one broker that fits all your req even have 100:1 and allows US Citizens. They are new to me and unregulated, but highly refereed. I will keep you in the loop as I find out more, unless someone already knows these answers, but still I will double check.
  • #6
  • Edited 2:39am Aug 10, 2011 2:36am | Edited 2:39am
Hi Eric

Much appreciated, I can tell you that at this stage I have tried both ActivTrades and Windsor Brokers and both brokers started great, and I made in excess of 2% a day for the first three days, and then something was changed?
I am of the opinion that they delayed my signals so that my scalping became unprofitable.
Windsor do not allow Sniping, I do not Snipe, I scalp. They insist that I can prove that I do not Snipe by giving them a copy of my EA, there is no way that I will ever do this, so they have delayed my pricing.

Pity really as they really looked like a decent broker, but they are using a technicality to not allow me to trade my EA.

The point is if they really were a STP broker, they would not care how much money I made, so I guess that they do trade against their clients?

If I do find a Broker that will allow me to trade my scalper without interference I shall also post an update here.

Again, thank you.
  • #7
  • Aug 10, 2011 2:55am Aug 10, 2011 2:55am
Quoting WhoDunIt
Hi Kate

Many thanks for the reply, do you know if there are any Oanda representatives on this Forum that wish to verify your statement and answer a few questions?

I am amazingly surprised at the lack of answers and the non participation of any brokers in this thread?

Thanks again
Try communicating with Alfonso Esparza, he is one and usually very friendly and helpful:

http://www.forexfactory.com/aesparza
  • #8
  • Aug 10, 2011 3:29am Aug 10, 2011 3:29am
Quoting WhoDunIt
Good Morning

Is there a Broker/Dealer that trades MT4 that can honestly guarantee that they do not use the Virtual Dealer Plugin?

1) No VDP.
2) Allow Scalping.
3) Does not care how much money I make.
4) Pays out withdrawals timeously.

Lets start with that.

Many Thanks
WhoDunIt

ps: Please folks, I am looking for Brokers that want to prove their honesty, I am NOT looking to start another thread on the evils of VDP.
Can you give the list of brokers who use VDP?
  • #9
  • Aug 10, 2011 4:07am Aug 10, 2011 4:07am
At this stage one needs to assume that they all use the Virtual Dealer Plugin without exception.

We need to wait for a dealer to come to this thread and admit that they do not, then we will be able to test that dealer with a scalping technique to ensure that they do not delay our signals.

So, in summary, assume that all dealers use the plugin.
  • #10
  • Aug 10, 2011 4:08am Aug 10, 2011 4:08am
Quoting doblece
Try communicating with Alfonso Esparza, he is one and usually very friendly and helpful:

http://www.forexfactory.com/aesparza

Thank you Doblece
  • #11
  • Aug 10, 2011 6:33am Aug 10, 2011 6:33am
Quoting WhoDunIt
At this stage one needs to assume that they all use the Virtual Dealer Plugin without exception.

We need to wait for a dealer to come to this thread and admit that they do not, then we will be able to test that dealer with a scalping technique to ensure that they do not delay our signals.

So, in summary, assume that all dealers use the plugin.

That's my basic idea. Thanks.
  • #12
  • Edited 10:07am Aug 10, 2011 9:56am | Edited 10:07am
ATC Brokers got back with me this morning, a very quick reply, their answers to my questions.


Quote
ATC Brokers does not use the Virtual Dealer Plugin as ATC is a non-dealing desk environment. We do not use Rous technology and we provide an ECN type model, our pricing are derived from the banks and the order execution is routed by STP (straight through processing).

If you have any other questions just let us know.
Not sure yet what they mean by "ECN type model", also after I thought about it, I have asked them the following question. Awaiting a response.

Just to clarify, ATC Brokers has removed the Virtual Dealer Plugin from their MT4 completely. I know you said it is not used but is it removed all together from MT4?
  • #13
  • Aug 10, 2011 10:29am Aug 10, 2011 10:29am
ATC Brokers Response:

"Yes there is no virtual dealer plugin in our MT4 platform we are a non-dealing desk environment."
  • #14
  • Aug 10, 2011 10:33am Aug 10, 2011 10:33am
Many thanks Eric

It would be nice to have the answer to the following question also please if you are also interested in scalping that is?

Is there any reason that ATC would delay signals for a client that uses scalping techniques?
  • #15
  • Aug 10, 2011 10:40am Aug 10, 2011 10:40am
Your very welcome! I have asked your question and also asked that ATC Brokers stop in here to answer. ATC is the broker that I am looking at switching to. There is are many choices, but they seem to be on their game. Like I said there is another unregulated broker that I will be checking out today.

Not sure if MB Trading uses the plugin, but I have had odd time out issues with IBFX and others, so more then likely...
  • #16
  • Aug 12, 2011 12:55pm Aug 12, 2011 12:55pm
Going to be putting a list of those brokers who have publicly stated they do not have the Virtual Dealer Plugin Installed on their MT4.

I did read this on OANDA's site, so good for them.

"Transparency and fairness. Our reputation means you can bank on our benchmark standards. OANDA provides full access to MetaTrader 4 tools, while maintaining our quality fxTrade execution. (OANDA's MetaTrader 4 does not include the MT4 Virtual Dealer plug-in.)"
  • #17
  • Aug 15, 2011 3:03am Aug 15, 2011 3:03am
Quoting EricF
Going to be putting a list of those brokers who have publicly stated they do not have the Virtual Dealer Plugin Installed on their MT4.

I did read this on OANDA's site, so good for them.

"Transparency and fairness. Our reputation means you can bank on our benchmark standards. OANDA provides full access to MetaTrader 4 tools, while maintaining our quality fxTrade execution. (OANDA's MetaTrader 4 does not include the MT4 Virtual Dealer plug-in.)"

Great! +1 for OANDA.
  • #18
  • Aug 23, 2011 10:36am Aug 23, 2011 10:36am
Brokers invited here have not commented? Seems everyone uses the "Plugin" whether the support staff know it or not.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...ever-fine.html

The Plaintiff, William H. Sanders, claims to have lost over $150,000 to FXCM over the years due. Two main topics the lawsuit deals with is the Demo accounts which serve to attract clients while not simulating real market conditions and when clients do switch to live they receive completely different execution and the execution itself where it is claimed that FXCM is in fact a market maker which actively goes after profitable clients. The main excerpts are below:
Plaintiff, William H. Sanders, just like thousands of other customers, was lured into transacting business with Defendant, FXCM, buying and selling foreign currencies in what is known as the foreign exchange (“Forex”) market, but little did Sanders, or any of the others, know that FXCM intended to, and did, systematically bilk them out of their account money through an elaborate scheme of fraudulent tricks, devices, and artifices. What was represented to Sanders and others as a foreign currency trading platform developed upon professed principles of “fairness, honesty, and integrity,” which was supposedly rooted in providing customers with a true market trading experience, totally devoid of dealer intervention and market manipulation, was in truth a platform predicated upon deceit and trickery that systematically looted the accounts of customers who, like Sanders, placed their trust in FXCM.
The scheme deployed by FXCM was complex and varied, utilizing aggressive and pervasive marketing and advertising campaigns, including television, internet, seminars, webinars, and other media, portraying FXCM as a foreign currency trading platform where investors could trade foreign currencies in a true market environment. The advertisements were specifically targeted to convey a sense of trust and transparency to potential FXCM customers and to gain the customers’ confidence in FXCM’s trading platform. To further bolster customers’ confidence in its platform, FXCM enticed customers to use FXCM’s practice or demo account (hereinafter, the “Demo Account”) to simulate an FXCM trading experience. But the Demo Account, just like the myriad advertisements, misled customers about the true nature, functionality, and performance of the platform. Once lured into opening an account, customers were subjected to a staggering array of stratagems and ploys, some using extremely sophisticated computer software based upon complex algorithms and high-speed computers, to deceive the customers into believing that their trading was being affected by normal market forces, while in reality FXCM traded against its own customers.
And the so-called “Demo Account” – which was held out by FXCM as the sine qua non to persuade prospective customers to trade with FXCM – was the most cunning and crippling canard of all. By trading through the “Demo Account” without being at financial risk, the customer was allowed to experience direct market pricing, free from FXCM dealer interference or manipulation. The switch pulled by FXCM on how trading occurs once the customer opens a “live” account and starts trading with real money, is nothing short of a modern-day equivalent of the classic street con game known as “Three-card Monte.” Once “live” trading began, direct market pricing was replaced by profound dealer interference and trade manipulation.
To further its fraudulent practices, FXCM associated with software developers and programmers to create and deploy one of the most sinister software applications ever imagined, the central component of which included a back-end administrative console that provided FXCM an arsenal of system commands to facilitate FXCM’s fraud on customers. For example, through this console, FXCM can prevent the customer from closing out a profitable trade; hold up a trade so that FXCM can pirate the profit by trading against the customer; or manipulate the price of the market by utilizing “flash” trades to artificially move a market to close out a customer’s “stop order.” FXCM deployed these technological tricks to separate customers, like Sanders, from their money.
Defendant further deceives customers by failing to disclose its dishonest practices in its disclaimers contained in Defendant’s customer agreements. Buried in the fine print of Defendant’s lengthy, misleading, contradictory, and largely incoherent computer-generated customer agreement, Defendant purports to innocuously “disclose” and “disclaim” to the customer that, at times, the Defendant may act as a “principal” in transactions, which may result in the customer’s not getting the “best price” on certain trades. In fact, Defendant does not act as a “principal” in a “market” at all; rather, the Defendant acts as a well-armed and unscrupulous adversary to its customer, with superior knowledge, a technological advantage, one which ignores its own Code of Conduct, and which intentionally defrauds unwitting customers.
Defendant has worked with software companies and individual software programmers to modify its back-end systems and middleware to enable it to engage in the dishonest trading practices described below. Defendant has modified its trading platform so that many of these dishonest trading practices are applied to a customer’s account by automated computerized algorithms. Through this association, Defendant has also modified its trading platform to include a sophisticated back-end administrative console which provides Defendant and its employees a series of system commands designed, each accessible through a drop down menu, to execute many of the dishonest trading practices described below. All of these software modifications have been implemented by Defendant to prevent customers from making money and to cause customers to lose money to Defendant.
Defendant’s dishonest trading practices include, but are not limited to, the following:
a. Slow Server Command: When a customer is engaged in profitable trading activity, Defendant routes the customer’s account to a “slow server,” causing trade execution to be slowed down, and allowing Defendant the time to hijack any potential profit in the trade by buying and selling in-between the customer’s order and the real market, with Defendant’s taking any profit and leaving the customer victimized with no money for his or her effort;
b. False “Error” Messages: Defendant uses its administrative back-end software to prevent the customer from closing out a profitable trade and instead causes the trading system to generate any one of a series of “error” messages to the customer, blocking the customer’s efforts to finalize what would have been a profitable order;
c. Flash Trades: Defendant, in a practice known as “stop hunting,” manipulates the market price of the traded currency, including printing bogus “flash trades” which move the “market” to trigger the customer’s stop order for a given trade, essentially closing the customer out of that trade;
d. Arbitrary Margin Rules: Defendant arbitrarily changes the margin rules on Fridays for an ensuing week without any notice to the customer, which results in the customer’s being deprived of any trading advantages or leverage opportunities they may have, and again causing the customer’s account to be closed out in favor of Defendant;
e. Abuse of “Slippage”: Defendant, in a practice known as “slipping a trade,” takes advantage of “slippage” in a given trade. “Slippage” is the change in price between the time when a price is quoted and a market order is placed. It is customarily caused by market movement while the trade is being executed. The incidence of “slippage” should roughly be equal in favor of the customer and the broker. Defying all laws of probability, in almost every case, Defendant’s customers suffer losses as a result of “slippage” at grossly greater percentages than Defendant does, which can only be explained by Defendant’s manipulation of pricing; and
“Slow Fill” and “No Fill” Commands: Defendant often fails to execute valid and profitable trade orders entered by the customer and instead causes the trading system to generate a “slow fill” or “no fill” message to the customer as the customer attempts to close out a profitable trade, preventing the customer from making a profit while generating illicit profits for Defendant.
  • #19
  • Sep 11, 2011 1:28am Sep 11, 2011 1:28am
VDP, as the above posting eludes to, is not the only 'bolt on' that acts against the average trader.

Asking a broker if they have the plugin is false security. VPD is old, and new programs and programming would have taken its place now. I have no doubt MT5 has an extended version of VPD, and more options for brokers.

Why don't you ask Oanda or any MM, broker if they have ANY server side programming that trades against the retail trader, that dissallows direct market access with no manipulation of pricing, opening and closing positions?

Gaurantee you don't get a reply to that!
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #20
  • Sep 11, 2011 3:14am Sep 11, 2011 3:14am
Quoting WhoDunIt
Hi Eric

Much appreciated, I can tell you that at this stage I have tried both ActivTrades and Windsor Brokers and both brokers started great, and I made in excess of 2% a day for the first three days, and then something was changed?
I am of the opinion that they delayed my signals so that my scalping became unprofitable.
Windsor do not allow Sniping, I do not Snipe, I scalp. They insist that I can prove that I do not Snipe by giving them a copy of my EA, there is no way that I will ever do this, so they have delayed my pricing.

Pity really as...
What is "sniping" and what is the difference between it and scalping?
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