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MT5 discussion

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 11, 2011 12:42am Jul 11, 2011 12:42am
I see the discussions on this forum are only about MT4.
What about MT5?
Many brokers use it even it is traded live.
Much more convenient and customization even traders who do not
know how to code can use MQL5 Wizard to create own Expert Advisors.
Plus is it very convenient with iPhone having it 24/7 beside.
Executions time about 20 times faster.
  • #2
  • Jul 11, 2011 4:05am Jul 11, 2011 4:05am
Quoting Expert44
...
Executions time about 20 times faster.
Compared to what? Or you are thinking the other way around?
  • #3
  • Jul 11, 2011 3:41pm Jul 11, 2011 3:41pm
Quoting seekers
Compared to what? Or you are thinking the other way around?
Compared to MT4
  • #4
  • Jul 11, 2011 4:05pm Jul 11, 2011 4:05pm
The talk is about MT4 and MT5.
  • #5
  • Jul 12, 2011 4:08pm Jul 12, 2011 4:08pm
Quoting Expert44
I see the discussions on this forum are only about MT4.
What about MT5?
Many brokers use it even it is traded live.
Much more convenient and customization even traders who do not
know how to code can use MQL5 Wizard to create own Expert Advisors.
Plus is it very convenient with iPhone having it 24/7 beside.
Executions time about 20 times faster.
My background is in electronics engineering. And something I've learned over the years is that as soon you want to build something for some critical operation (life-support, controlling nuclear reactors, NASA's satellites etc.) old and tried ALWAYS win over "new, hip and fast with fancy features".

And trading IS critical operation (especially EA's) as I see it.

Let someone else lose money on bugs and unexpected behaviour I say. I wont switch to MT5 until I'm absolutely forced to.

/LV
  • #6
  • Jul 12, 2011 5:26pm Jul 12, 2011 5:26pm
I'm guessing, but I can't see MT5 being a serious contender for several months yet. For one simple reason: there are literally thousands of third party MT4 indys and EAs that won't run on MT5, without a significant manual translation process. And as long as they continually work happily on MT4, there's no real incentive to migrate; people are resistant to change, especially where software is concerned. Traders care more about their P/L rather than whether it's being delivered by MT4 or MT5. Of course somebody (possibly even MetaQuotes) will eventually write a translator that actually works, but its public acceptance will likely take time, also.
  • #7
  • Edited 5:56am Jul 13, 2011 5:39am | Edited 5:56am
MT5 is more than several months away; I would put my money on a year plus.

Look on the bright side of the upgrade, about 90% of the MT4 code won't make it. I think this will be a well needed die off of the lame and badly conceived code. People who wrote their own are also in for a nasty surprise - MQL5 coding is another level of programming skill above MQL4 and the learning curve is twice to three times the effort. Some simply won't be able to acquire the necessary coding skill.

As far as an automated tool to do the upgrade; I have my doubts. I looked into doing one myself a year ago and it is a tough challenge. I focused on a couple of simple aspects that is common to most code. One was determining whether an indicator works on every tick or on bar opening. The number of possibilities is almost as many as there are coders. Another example is ensuring that code is compatible with both 4 and 5 digit brokers. I am fairly consistent in how I handle both these situations and I could probably find a way to upgrade my code. But I didn't even want to start to think about the other ways I have seen these seeming simple situations handled and then finding a one size fits all solution.

As someone has suggested, for non-programmers the way to go will be to build from scratch using the EA wizard. But my guess is that these are good for the most basic of tasks and will fail to do the last 5% of the functionality that people deem critical. The automated code generators for MQL4 aren't proving their worth other than giving someone a head start and neither will the Metaquotes' one. If I'm not mistaken, they didn't provide a wizard for indicators, just EAs.

Besides, automating the coding only gets you half way there. The other half is the verification and testing required even after the tool has produced runnable code. Inevitably this stage requires some coding tweaks, which rules out non programmers.
  • #8
  • Jul 13, 2011 6:31am Jul 13, 2011 6:31am
Quoting CodeMeister
MT5 is more than several months away; I would put my money on a year plus. ......
Excellent summary, IMO.
  • #9
  • Edited 8:48am Jul 13, 2011 7:53am | Edited 8:48am
I do know that it is about mt4 and mt5
_________________

But whoever used both knows that mt5 is slower than mt4. Even a simplest indicator drawing is visibly (and visually verifiable) slower in mt5 when compared to mt4. Trying the "specifics" (making classes in order to reuse them - for example) makes mt5 crawl. So the "20 times faster" that was a promise when the development of mt5 started is just that : one more promise that has nothing in common with reality
_________________

Upgrades that are rendering everything previously made in mt5 worthless are so frequent that, if not for anything else, that prevents anybody serious to even think about developing anything for mt5. One does it today only to discover that with some upgrade all of a sudden what worked before does not work any more.

Of automatic EA generating I do not even want to talk. Those are stories started some 25 years and I still haven't seen any automatic code generator worth at least half a penny. Those are bedtime stories for kids that go something like this : "Don't you worry, you don't have to know anything and you will still make wonderful and so clever EAs ...". Yes, my baby, you will ...
_________________

As long as the "development" does not show any sign of making a stable and serious version, mt5 will only remain a toy for idle people

Quoting Expert44
The talk is about MT4 and MT5.
  • #10
  • Jul 13, 2011 7:56am Jul 13, 2011 7:56am
Quoting CodeMeister
- MQL5 coding is another level of programming skill above MQL4 and the learning curve is twice to three times the effort. Some simply won't be able to acquire the necessary coding skill.
As long as I don't have to go back to managing the stack...
Old Benjamin was right
  • #11
  • Jul 13, 2011 8:08am Jul 13, 2011 8:08am
I will wait for MT6 to come out -- completely compatible with and upgradable from MT4!!! (I hope Metaquote is working on it...)
  • #12
  • Jul 13, 2011 11:52am Jul 13, 2011 11:52am
Hmm...does anybody see something good in MT5 or only bad?
MT6 might never pop up.
Its enough keep updating MT5 and that is all.
The main difference with MT4 is that it has OOP based on C++
which is highest level language.
  • #13
  • Edited 1:52pm Jul 13, 2011 1:36pm | Edited 1:52pm
Expert44, you are asking for us to say good things. We are telling it like it is.

MQL5 definitely has some features that are superior to MQL4, but 99% of the traders could care less. Probably 95% don't even know what OO is. Even some coders won't like it. All they want is something stable and fairly easy to learn and use. There is no compelling reason to move to MT5, perhaps mobile trading will force the issue, but who knows.
  • #14
  • Jul 13, 2011 2:09pm Jul 13, 2011 2:09pm
Personally I am in favor of MT5. Not a that I agree with everything in it but
there is no other way. It is the future.
First of all, MT4 is stalled and is no more updated and slowly passing away.
All attention to updating and improving is to MT5 whether we like it or not.

In MT5 is crazy complicated coding with rare and not good examples in help menu. But experts in C++ will like it. On the other side through coding we can modify the face of the charts, EAs are able put automatically indicators on chart and remove them, remove themselves from charts and close terminal etc.

The platform is more customizable.
1. 21 kinds of time frames
2. 39 technical indicators
3. 17 specialized display indicators styles
4. 39 image objects
5. 5 order types and 4 executions modes
6. DOM
7. etc.

‘From the start of Metatrader 5 development we presumed that we will be able to save the compatibility. And we claimed about it many times. But the numerous traders/developers requests made us change our mind. We’ve understood that just can’t make a new language compatible. At the same time we have made MQL5 more powerful and in this fashion we gave you, traders and developers, more capabilities – that was our main goal in developing of MQL5 IDE. From one side, new language with the new abilities, and from the other side – MQL4 and MQL5 compatibility. Sadly, these 2 aims can’t be contacted at the same time.’ Interview with Metrader5 lead developer'.
  • #15
  • Jul 13, 2011 3:44pm Jul 13, 2011 3:44pm
Quoting Expert44
In MT5 is crazy complicated coding with rare and not good examples in help menu. But experts in C++ will like it. On the other side through coding we can modify the face of the charts, EAs are able put automatically indicators on chart and remove them, remove themselves from charts and close terminal etc.

The platform is more customizable.
1. 21 kinds of time frames
2. 39 technical indicators
3. 17 specialized display indicators styles
4. 39 image objects
5. 5 order types and 4 executions modes
6. DOM
7. etc.
You are talking like a programmer (or, more correctly, a salesman who's trying to sell MT5 to programmers). MetaTrader is a first and foremost a trading platform, not a programming language.

Probably more than 95% of the estimated 2 million MT4 users are traders, not programmers. They couldn't care less about the underlying programming language. Their most important priority is how profitable (or otherwise) they are. Their second priority is that they want something that works hassle-free, and with which they're familiar. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. MT4 ticks all of these boxes.

If, by using MT5, they were automatically guaranteed an extra 5% return on their trades every month, then sure, they'd be VERY keen to make the move. But otherwise, your list of features is largely irrelevant to them. They don't need 39 new indicators, or 21 timeframes, if what they've already got delivers profit.

If what I've read here is correct, it seems like traders will need to re-think much of their trading modus operandi, which will - at least initially - be a total nuisance.

I'm a programmer, and I'm loathing the prospect of MT5, because it means having to re-code all of the indys and EAs that I use in my own trading. What I have works for me, and having to down tools to modify it (not to mention re-training myself in a new, and conceptually different, language) is, for me, a complete waste of time and effort. Personally, I wish MT5 would go away forever.
  • #16
  • Jul 13, 2011 4:34pm Jul 13, 2011 4:34pm
Quoting Expert44
1. 21 kinds of time frames
2. 39 technical indicators
3. 17 specialized display indicators styles
4. 39 image objects
5. 5 order types and 4 executions modes
6. DOM
7. etc.
But this is not what I need.

The big problem with MQL4 is/was that I had to spend so mush time writing system related code when I really should spend my time with math and data processing.

Just handling all the possible errors from simple market orders is about ~150 lines of code in MT4, and MT5 is not better buy the look of things. It really should be closer to 3 lines of code IMHO.

If they had used a language designed for math and data processing (maybe something matlab like), and made the x axis time rather then bars, and with really simple order management etc. etc. When, maybe MT5 would have been interesting and worth the hassle of rewriting all my indicators & EA's.

I don't want to write more code, I want to write less.
  • #17
  • Jul 13, 2011 4:47pm Jul 13, 2011 4:47pm
I not try to sell MT5 platform. The have monopoly and they will do whatever they want to. I just wanted to bring up features of MT5 platform to get better acquainted to it.
But since there is so much animosity of the most popular members of the forum towards this platform then I stop discussing about MT5 platform on this forum also. Besides MT5 there are a lot of important topics to talk about
  • #18
  • Jul 13, 2011 6:15pm Jul 13, 2011 6:15pm
Quoting Expert44
I not try to sell MT5 platform. The have monopoly and they will do whatever they want to. I just wanted to bring up features of MT5 platform to get better acquainted to it.
But since there is so much animosity of the most popular members of the forum towards this platform then I stop discussing about MT5 platform on this forum also. Besides MT5 there are a lot of important topics to talk about
I'm sorry that my comments came across in this way. This will be my last post in your thread.

You are right - MT5 will become a reality, whether people like it or not. Hence it is a very appropriate discussion topic. Please don't let my comments dissuade you from continuing. Or alternatively, there are other MT5 threads that you might like to participate in (see the 'Similar Threads' section below).

Again, I apologize.
  • #19
  • Jul 13, 2011 6:17pm Jul 13, 2011 6:17pm
No problem. Its democracy.
  • #20
  • Jul 15, 2011 9:46am Jul 15, 2011 9:46am
Quoting hanover
You are talking like a programmer (or, more correctly, a salesman who's trying to sell MT5 to programmers). MetaTrader is a first and foremost a trading platform, not a programming language.

Probably more than 95% of the estimated 2 million MT4 users are traders, not programmers. They couldn't care less about the underlying programming language. Their most important priority is how profitable (or otherwise) they are. Their second priority is that they want something that works hassle-free, and with which they're familiar. In other words, if it...
You have made valid points haover.
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