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Thinking Outside the Box!?!

  • #581
  • Jun 29, 2011 10:25am Jun 29, 2011 10:25am
Quoting newyear498
no idea you?

personally I like trading with an emergency stop and when things go bad I wait for a retrace and then I close my position.. so I reduce the risk more than simply letting price hit my stoploss at its lowest rally... which is usually what happens
Yes I do, but it does require hefty manual intervention.

Just wanted to see if others had thought about it.

Considering its "out of box" thinking, im surprised no one has said anything...
  • #582
  • Jun 29, 2011 1:21pm Jun 29, 2011 1:21pm
Quoting Pipalicious
Yes I do, but it does require hefty manual intervention.

Just wanted to see if others had thought about it.

Considering its "out of box" thinking, im surprised no one has said anything...
not sure what you wanna say. All I can think of is a trailing stop that locks in profit. Other than that I don't know how a stop loss can turn a profit. But trailing stops are not really out of the box, so maybe you can enlighten us.
  • #583
  • Jun 29, 2011 9:52pm Jun 29, 2011 9:52pm
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/mem...erail-1953.jpg

This image seems appropriate
Cautiously optimistic. . .
  • #584
  • Jun 30, 2011 3:58am Jun 30, 2011 3:58am
And the thinking out the box message in all this? Once you start to form a view, it's really hard to shake it off because you invest your ego into it, and changing your mind becomes exponentially harder.

It's a human trait, so I won't pretend I'm above it, but you might recognise this:

I spent hundreds of hours on something I thought was relevant in the markets. I was convinced it was. The more time I spent looking at it, the more relevant I thought it was, and so it went on. When other stuff came up that was clearly more relevant and profitable, could I shake off the original idea I'd invested my heart and soul into? Nope. Ego fucking with you.

Some wag once commented that it takes 2 years to become profitable if you've got no qualifications, 5 years if you have. Because the former will readily admit they're wrong all the time, whereas the latter will try and outsmart their mentor.

Here, most people don't have mentors, they have FF, and mentors are similar unprofitable traders to steer them in every which way apart from profit, all with the best of intentions. Sure there's something about a road to hell in there...

PS inventors- I always thought it was a Brit who invented the interwebs. Turns out I know shit.
  • #585
  • Jun 30, 2011 4:15am Jun 30, 2011 4:15am
Quoting triphop
I spent hundreds of hours on something I thought was relevant in the markets. I was convinced it was. The more time I spent looking at it, the more relevant I thought it was, and so it went on. When other stuff came up that was clearly more relevant and profitable, could I shake off the original idea I'd invested my heart and soul into? Nope. Ego fucking with you.
Finally something relevant and of real substance.

I fell in that same trap too; most do, but not all like to admit it. It's indeed a major obstacle to creative thinking especially in trading.
  • #586
  • Jun 30, 2011 5:22am Jun 30, 2011 5:22am
Quoting Marv
Finally something relevant and of real substance.

I fell in that same trap too; most do, but not all like to admit it. It's indeed a major obstacle to creative thinking especially in trading.
Yeah its real hard to admit it, especially when you've vested so much pain and hardwork into it, and when you realize how crap it is...lol...you feel like crap.

But still look at it thinking...."fuck man!....its GOT to work!!!!

bit of the olde ego tripping drugs i guess
  • #587
  • Jun 30, 2011 7:24am Jun 30, 2011 7:24am
I've seen more radical lettuces than this drivel. Get rid of the politicians and corporations that provide the very freedoms that allow you to rail against them.... right. As for the elite vs the masses. Sweet conceit but it's just that.

Everyone gets what they want out the markets, and this thread's no exception. I'm done.
  • #588
  • Jun 30, 2011 7:33am Jun 30, 2011 7:33am
Quoting triphop
I've seen more radical lettuces than this drivel. Get rid of the politicians and corporations that provide the very freedoms that allow you to rail against them.... right. As for the elite vs the masses. Sweet conceit but it's just that.

Everyone gets what they want out the markets, and this thread's no exception. I'm done.
getting rid of politicians and such is not the answer.. that is just the illusion

Democracy, Socialism, communism is all illusion

the world is a free market.. thats how you get places.. all these government structures provide subordinates with a feeling of control..

after working a 9-5 job for shit pay in the form of a currency!?! you can vote.. then when a dude robs your ass and takes your currency you can call the cops who will show up and not catch the guy and never reimburse you.. but atleast you have a feeling of being safe...

if you want to get anywhere in life join the free market.. be the employer and not he employee.. be a trader and not the company.. work your way up somewhere higher than a worker ant

  • #589
  • Jun 30, 2011 8:05am Jun 30, 2011 8:05am
Quoting newyear498
getting rid of politicians and such is not the answer.. that is just the illusion

the world is a free market.. thats how you get places.. all these government structures provide subordinates with a feeling of control..

if you want to get anywhere in life join the free market.. be the employer and not he employee.. be a trader and not the company.. work your way up somewhere higher than a worker ant
I agree its just a mere illusion, but what im trying to get at is that a lot of the situations we are in, globally, is due to this and the puppet masters.

I also agree that in a capitalistic environment each one must take full responsability for their actions, and as such, can climb the proverbial ladder.

What i DONT agree with, is the worldwide poverty that is an effect of the elite, so to speak.

Thats it. peace out.
  • #590
  • Edited 5:52pm Jun 30, 2011 5:34pm | Edited 5:52pm
Quoting triphop
And the thinking out the box message in all this? Once you start to form a view, it's really hard to shake it off because you invest your ego into it, and changing your mind becomes exponentially harder.

It's a human trait, so I won't pretend I'm above it, but you might recognise this:

I spent hundreds of hours on something I thought was relevant in the markets. I was convinced it was. The more time I spent looking at it, the more relevant I thought it was, and so it went on. When other stuff came up that was clearly more relevant and profitable,...
Hey triphop I really like what you posted here. I think you're touching on an important psychological issue. If anyone wants to see this exact mentality triphop speaks of in action. I think the movie "floored" provides an excellent example of this. Traders who have been floor traders their whole lives find themselves unable to transfer to the screen. I remember at one point in the movie one trader is unable to transition and blames everything on "robots" in the market.

http://flooredthemovie.com/community/?page_id=11

Check out the video on the bottom called "The Transition" for a little taste of what I'm talking about. Great documentary, I'd recommend it to any trader.

Quote
I've seen more radical lettuces than this drivel. Get rid of the politicians and corporations that provide the very freedoms that allow you to rail against them.... right. As for the elite vs the masses. Sweet conceit but it's just that.
Funny isn't it?

Edit: Just noticed the thread got cleaned up, yay!
Cautiously optimistic. . .
  • #591
  • Jun 30, 2011 6:58pm Jun 30, 2011 6:58pm
I need some advice on the following..

in the middle of the most recent swing high and a recent swing low (a 50% retrace) is this where the buyers and sellers agree on price?

does the truth lay somewhere in the middle?

or what is your take on this interp. regarding orderflow / supply and demand



thanks
  • #592
  • Jun 30, 2011 9:49pm Jun 30, 2011 9:49pm
Quoting Pipalicious
I agree its just a mere illusion, but what im trying to get at is that a lot of the situations we are in, globally, is due to this and the puppet masters.

I also agree that in a capitalistic environment each one must take full responsability for their actions, and as such, can climb the proverbial ladder.

What i DONT agree with, is the worldwide poverty that is an effect of the elite, so to speak.

Thats it. peace out.
Yes, and I believe this will continue... because you can't have an upside down economy where there are no "worker ants" there always has to be smaller more insignificant people to "service" the rich.

Everyone should have the ability to climb out of the proverbial sewer at some point, but we can clearly see with all the financial turmoil that financial turmoil is likely the end result. "If TBTF is always bailed out, what is there to stop them?" Governments and central banks just print more money or they get a loan to repay an old loan. Where does it end?

There will always be worldwide poverty when a select few make rules to keep the "worker ants" in line. What is going on in Greece is a primary example.

It's interesting to note or at least this is my perspective is that when the rich get squeezed the government bails them out. When you or me gets squeezed we get evicted. The last resort is rioting and worse.
  • #593
  • Jul 1, 2011 7:30am Jul 1, 2011 7:30am
Quoting newyear498
I need some advice on the following..

in the middle of the most recent swing high and a recent swing low (a 50% retrace) is this where the buyers and sellers agree on price?

does the truth lay somewhere in the middle?

or what is your take on this interp. regarding orderflow / supply and demand



thanks
No One?
  • #594
  • Jul 1, 2011 8:41am Jul 1, 2011 8:41am
Quoting newyear498
No One?
when price doesn't move then sellers and buyers agree on current price.
  • #595
  • Jul 1, 2011 8:44am Jul 1, 2011 8:44am
Quoting Custos
when price doesn't move then sellers and buyers agree on current price.
see thats how I always felt.. however gann stated that the 50% retrace is where they agree on price and where it goes from there determines who is in control

thought it was interesting
  • #596
  • Jul 1, 2011 8:52am Jul 1, 2011 8:52am
Quoting newyear498
see thats how I always felt.. however gann stated that the 50% retrace is where they agree on price and where it goes from there determines who is in control

thought it was interesting
hm, I don't quite agree.

Let's take the current situation in greece. Price was at 1.41 before the announcements that greece is willing to do anything to get new money. Now price is at 1.445, cause of the recent announcements concerning greece.

Now do market participants agree on 1.445 as current price or you think they agree on (1.445 + 1.41) /2 = 1,4275? I say they agree on the price which is currently displayed on the chart, which is 1.445
  • #597
  • Jul 1, 2011 9:03am Jul 1, 2011 9:03am
Quoting Custos
hm, I don't quite agree.

Let's take the current situation in greece. Price was at 1.41 before the announcements that greece is willing to do anything to get new money. Now price is at 1.445, cause of the recent announcements concerning greece.

Now do market participants agree on 1.445 as current price or you think they agree on (1.445 + 1.41) /2 = 1,4275? I say they agree on the price which is currently displayed on the chart, which is 1.445
that is true.. they definitively agree on current price how else would it get there?

I respect Gann.. but who knows.. a lot of his stuff played the telephone game anyways
  • #598
  • Jul 1, 2011 9:24am Jul 1, 2011 9:24am
Quoting newyear498
that is true.. they definitively agree on current price how else would it get there?

I respect Gann.. but who knows.. a lot of his stuff played the telephone game anyways
yeah, I heard that a lot of the stuff he sold was only for making money. He actually traded differently from what he told the public.
  • #599
  • Jul 1, 2011 9:54am Jul 1, 2011 9:54am
Quoting Custos
yeah, I heard that a lot of the stuff he sold was only for making money.
+1
  • #600
  • Jul 13, 2011 6:32pm Jul 13, 2011 6:32pm
Quoting nubcake
for anyone studying tick / 1min / 5min charts the spread is everything. if you can't overcome the spread you can't do anything. as the spread tends to stay relatively similar (apart from news events) then this becomes an easy measure of everything else around it. momentum, a trends price distance, volatility over a number of bars, all is very clear and tells a straightforward story when you measure all of them against the spread.
...
in summary, you are either going to eyeball everything off of the prices displayed on the price scale which...
I don't know if you've tried this indicator, which I found here:
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 IND_Monitoring-Spread.ex4   4 KB | 515 downloads

. I did, on mb trading (nonfixed spread), and it works great for different patterns in the spread. Only catch is, as far as I know, you have to keep the platform open to gather the bars.
For the very little time I've used it, I haven't done the exact measuring, which'd be more like VSA stuff -- I'd only measure price or time exactly, and even then prefer to have a lot of bars / time to look at. I'd study an unusual bar, yes, only more likely I'd look for a more defineable pattern such as a series of line segments or a box in the spread indicator.

Anyhow, and good trading to you.
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