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Real Fx traders do not use stoploss

  • #101
  • Edited 3:04am Jun 4, 2011 2:35am | Edited 3:04am
Quoting the redlion
yeah me too. i believe he is, before i read his thread i was doing calculated gambles, with risk rewards and stop losses, set and forget type of trades.

i won some, i lost some (mostly lost some) my stop was always getting hit before price took off, and sometimes i was glad i had a stop loss as my position would have been screwed.

when i had the chance to REALLY learn fti's methodology, i began to UNDERSTAND price, and began to observe and go along for the ride.

i owe him all my success and any other future success to fti
A great discussion and some well argued points by all.

Red, Fti caught your eye and has shown you a way to trade that you like and works for you, np with that.

My eye was caught early on by another genius trader and I was shown a way to trade that I liked and have found extremely reliable and profitable.

My way involves precision trading, with stops that totally erradicates the need to build a position or watch my charts wondering how the heck I can get out of an awful trade.

Euro long was a peach yesterday and imo the move had nothing to do with Greece or NFP, they used that stuff to manipulate the price but the level it went to was pure SR.

Think on this also, if you have a level of sr that you know needs testing, lets say 1.0712 on AU on a h1 chart (as was the case yesterday after NFP), you get a signal to go long at 1.0650 that was a 62 pip gap. If you understand how to trade the levels you can hit that long at every opportunity providing it hasn't already hit 1.0712 , try making 100 pips from a 62 pip gap.

As Custos mentioned , If you understand what the big money is doing by accumulating discounted orders and searching out liquidity then you would know why your stops always get hit and then the price reverses in your direction.
  • #102
  • Jun 4, 2011 3:02am Jun 4, 2011 3:02am
Quoting Custos
that's such a newbie mindset: Reversing what doesn't work, then it has to work.
If a strategy is a losing strategy, it is very likely that by reversing it, that it still will be a losing strategy. Random calls reversed stay random calls.
sheesh...people these days are so serious... can't even put a little sarcasasm here and there without being called a noob -_-! Everybody's an expert now

Regardless, there is truth to what I said Now somebody throw me a wrench
  • #103
  • Jun 4, 2011 3:07am Jun 4, 2011 3:07am
Quoting eraptheman
Regardless, there is truth to what I said Now somebody throw me a wrench
exactly man, whatever makes you happy! Cheers
  • #104
  • Jun 4, 2011 6:05am Jun 4, 2011 6:05am
I trade FX
I use stop losses
I am pretty sure that I am real
Therefore premise is false!

QED
  • #105
  • Jun 4, 2011 9:37am Jun 4, 2011 9:37am
Quoting the redlion
yeah me too. i believe he is, before i read his thread i was doing calculated gambles, with risk rewards and stop losses, set and forget type of trades.

i won some, i lost some (mostly lost some) my stop was always getting hit before price took off, and sometimes i was glad i had a stop loss as my position would have been screwed.

when i had the chance to REALLY learn fti's methodology, i began to UNDERSTAND price, and began to observe and go along for the ride.

i owe him all my success and any other future success to fti
I would like to ask you an off-topic question. You use fundamentals in your approach, but you trade the very short-term time-frames. What I don't understand is how you can combine long-term with short-term. The 15 min to 4 hour charts are just fluctuating all the time, while the fundamentals are normally medium to long-term (weeks to years). Or you just trade always with the bias of fundamentals in the backside of your brain?

cheers.
  • #106
  • Jun 4, 2011 11:46am Jun 4, 2011 11:46am
that is simple custos, actually i dont believe there are such things as time frames.

price is continuous, forex is actually a binary system buy/sell orders, we only use the concept of time frames to measure how price has traveled in a set amount of time and attempt to gauge direction speed and momentum.

with every tick the market changes, the daily candle is comprised of 1440 minutes, the hourly 60 minutes, and i like to trade of the 5 minute (i find my brain works this way better)

with a split screen 1 hr for measurement and 5 minute for trading (in reality if price on the euro hits 1.45000 it will say that no matter what time frame youre using, so in effect candles are to measure OHLC of period of time, but by using the hourly (because my brain thinks in terms of hourly) i can zoom out to see the bigger picture. i believe in wave within waves and delay from buy order environment and sell order environment, the key is to watch the momentum (i have done countless hours of observations)

what the fundamentals help me with is to keep my brain from being subjective, combining it with the actual chart im seeing in front of me.
price can either go up or down, correct? no matter where i buy it can either go up or down.

for example knowing when the NFP comes out and having an idea of what it would say judging by other economic factors, like slowdown in the overall economy, jobless claims, (the fed being the only dovish players at this time) can give me the idea that the dollar might still be weakening, so observing the direction of price according to the daily time frame, and coupling this with current events and news, i attempt to keep in the right direction.
also the correlation of the 6 majors gives many clues, some times some lagg behind and some go infront.
the dollar being the reserve currency and the most important in the world as everything ,crosses, majors, minors and exotics, as well as oil , gold silver and other commodities are priced in the USD. knowing what currencies are favored in times of uncertainty CHF, risk aversion, risk apetite, commodity currencies. it is all important to know

the SINGLE MOST important thing is to know in what direction is the dollar moving, and being aware of economic developments as well as reading the chart and following price movement, i attempt to steer my ship in the right direction.

right direction but wrong timing i could sit on my hands till the trade turns around, or average a new price, rescue trades.

wrong direction, means im fighting an uphill battle that i know i will lose.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #107
  • Jun 5, 2011 8:03am Jun 5, 2011 8:03am
Quoting the redlion
right direction but wrong timing i could sit on my hands till the trade turns around, or average a new price, rescue trades.

wrong direction, means im fighting an uphill battle that i know i will lose.

wrong direction --- so are you saying you don't rescue in this case?

Take your medication on the chops?

I can tell you will grow some balls if you try it and you might dooky yourself in the process.

I personally let the market decide, unless I see the wave structures clearly then I whip out some invisible nukes and go stealth mode.

My trading anthem is "Home on the Range"... you know where the deer and the antelope play. LOL
  • #108
  • Jun 26, 2011 1:00am Jun 26, 2011 1:00am
Quoting Blackship
hi guys,

I've heard that pro fx traders who do not use stop losses and this had contributed much controvesy. Anyone who approve or disapprove please comment
I know one profitable guy who said he does not use SL. But he exits as he sees that market seriously moving against him. What goes up will come down and what goes down will come up.
  • #109
  • Jun 26, 2011 1:47am Jun 26, 2011 1:47am
Quoting Expert44
What goes up will come down and what goes down will come up.
This sentence is just so much denying reality. Not everything will come back. Just look at all the trending pairs like usd/chf. If you are unlucky you bought against the trend and price never retraced back to your entry point. Then you can be a couple of thousand pips in the red for the next few years or decades.

Don't just shout out random sentences, check first if reality is really as your statement implies.
  • #110
  • Jun 26, 2011 2:31am Jun 26, 2011 2:31am
Quoting Expert44
I know one profitable guy who said he does not use SL. But he exits as he sees that market seriously moving against him. What goes up will come down and what goes down will come up.
first
What do you mean by "seriously"?
seriously is a relative term. is this 15, 20 or 200 pips? what ever, it is an ambigious word. try and slim it down

secondly
what goes up must come down is the easiest theory to make you loose your deposit. if you buy at a market top, that will be the end of the theory and your account
  • #111
  • Jun 26, 2011 9:56am Jun 26, 2011 9:56am
What goes up will come down is or was just a popular saying. And when everybody uses this, this will come to nothing. About trading without stop losses. Well, market goes in swings and these swings are actually eaters of stop losses as far as these stop losses go. If you know what you do then after a wave you see the new picture and decide where to put your stop loss. On the other side some news can make big moves, so a distant stop loss is a must. Usually stop losses make us lose.
  • #112
  • Jun 28, 2011 6:38pm Jun 28, 2011 6:38pm
There needs to be at least a mental stop loss. You can't be a good trader without some sort of stop.
  • #113
  • Jul 1, 2011 4:28pm Jul 1, 2011 4:28pm
Quoting Blackship
hi guys,

I've heard that pro fx traders who do not use stop losses and this had contributed much controvesy. Anyone who approve or disapprove please comment
Pro FX traders do use stop losses. However, they do not show them on the book.

Once their price alert is reached, they send market orders to liquidate their position as they see liquidity fits.
  • #114
  • Jul 2, 2011 11:07am Jul 2, 2011 11:07am
c'mon, even Warren Buffet has stop loss ( albeit mental SL). If the company which he is invested in has drastically changed for the worse, no doubt he will sell his shares and not stubbornly hold on to the company till the end of time.
  • #115
  • Jul 2, 2011 12:03pm Jul 2, 2011 12:03pm
it is good to have sl like 50 pips and the market will not mess with your activities if you know what you are doing.
  • #116
  • Jul 3, 2011 12:06am Jul 3, 2011 12:06am
there is always a stoploss
  • #117
  • Edited 7:16am Jul 3, 2011 7:12am | Edited 7:16am
Hi,

Be smarter, why do you risk yourself for an undefinable situation?

No SL Yet until the technology facilitates traders to access online trading. But from beginning to now, professional traders always exit and stay away from undefinable situation.

See the chart, find the area where you can't be able to define the risk that you will get. Put your SL at the border of that area.
  • #118
  • Jul 3, 2011 10:21am Jul 3, 2011 10:21am
Stop losses are a good movers of market and make it logical.
  • #119
  • Jul 3, 2011 11:21am Jul 3, 2011 11:21am
Just to clarify things a little bit. There is no such thing as real traders we are all real traders (i.e if you are trading live accounts). However, not all real traders are successful traders.

IMO if someone chooses not to use Stoploss he should have an exit signal. it is as simple as that. Of late, i been spending more time studing my charts and i have observed that Oscillators can be used for exit signals. Infact, any leading indicator should be able to serve that purposes provided it is used Correctly.
  • #120
  • Jul 3, 2011 11:56am Jul 3, 2011 11:56am
Even though you have a discipline to follow your exit signal. You still need to using SL. Except you are ready to have a big losses when the market suddenly moves very fast and makes a wide gap in the opposite direction to your current position.

You can't be right all of the time.

Quoting Adewumi
Just to clarify things a little bit. There is no such thing as real traders we are all real traders (i.e if you are trading live accounts). However, not all real traders are successful traders.

IMO if someone chooses not to use Stoploss he should have an exit signal. it is as simple as that. Of late, i been spending more time studing my charts and i have observed that Oscillators can be used for exit signals. Infact, any leading indicator should be able to serve that purposes provided it is used Correctly.
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