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VSA with Clifton

  • #141
  • Edited 3:02pm Jun 24, 2011 2:50pm | Edited 3:02pm
Quoting torkay77
i am trying to add vsa to my trading weapons as i come from S/R trading

i have question about this setup

http://www.ps.wol-clan.de/img/picshare_1308941585.png

the upbar following the stop volume has higher volume as the stopping volume bar, so does this make the stopping volume bar not valid anymore?

cause as it turned out price is moving not up but sideways even there was a nice no demand bar

or are there other volume based warning...
Thanks for posting this, it helps he point out some things.

The main problem is the time of day that the No Supply showed up (second line from left). It's at 20:00 GMT. I NEVER take a trade that time of day.

If you look at the volume following that NS it's all low, inherent to that time of day.


The second thing to remember is that high volume up bars that make little to no progress on the next few bars are a sign of weakness.

With that in mind, notice that very wide spread up bar that was on the highest volume of the day at that point (day starts Asia open). The next bar couldn't close above range and became a spring/upthrust/fake breakout like the one just shown by Duyk20.
  • #142
  • Jun 24, 2011 3:41pm Jun 24, 2011 3:41pm
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8646/eusetup5.gif
  • #143
  • Jun 24, 2011 3:43pm Jun 24, 2011 3:43pm
okay thanks for clarification

another question: my broker shows me market depth data, so that i see incoming volume numbers for a specific price... but these numbers change so fast that it is hard to follow for my eyes

do you think this informaton could have any use for VSA trading?
  • #144
  • Edited 5:44pm Jun 24, 2011 4:14pm | Edited 5:44pm
Quoting torkay77
okay thanks for clarification

another question: my broker shows me market depth data, so that i see incoming volume numbers for a specific price... but these numbers change so fast that it is hard to follow for my eyes

do you think this informaton could have any use for VSA trading?
Nope, it's not useful to me.

Notice I don't use market depth, market profile, POC, VWAP, triggers, cot reports, fundies, VSA indies, 200 VSA definitions, MA diamonds, hull, odd TFs, pivots etc. in my trading. (I do use fib).

It's not that haven't used/looked at those things in the past, but it's all about the highest probability setups. When it came time to enter a trade, none of that stuff mattered to me.

Just price, volume and s/r.
  • #145
  • Jun 25, 2011 1:09am Jun 25, 2011 1:09am
Powerful fib at work, like Clifton said, apart from S/R level, always put 50/61.8 fib in mind for potential reversal, watch how price develops within 50/61.8 could bring us some nice entries.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...inluv/eu11.gif
  • #146
  • Jun 25, 2011 1:26am Jun 25, 2011 1:26am
So, here's why we don't go long after the stopping volume
The people using complicated vsa indies and diamond stuff get caught here
Just a chart, volume, fibo, channel, S/R, trendline and we are done

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...luv/eu12-2.gif
  • #147
  • Jun 25, 2011 8:34am Jun 25, 2011 8:34am
Quoting torkay77
okay thanks for clarification

another question: my broker shows me market depth data, so that i see incoming volume numbers for a specific price... but these numbers change so fast that it is hard to follow for my eyes

do you think this informaton could have any use for VSA trading?
Depending on the quality of the information given by your broker, this information is EXTREMELY useful. However, in the forex market, it is unlikely to be of much use unless you multiplex it with many other feeds. Even when you've done that, you would still need a top quality execution platform and a computer to do the trading for you in order to take advantage of it.

If you could do all of the above, you wouldn't need VSA. If you are able to program computers to do all of this, please PM me and I'll show you how WE can win .
  • #148
  • Jun 25, 2011 1:02pm Jun 25, 2011 1:02pm
Quoting torkay77
another question: my broker shows me market depth data, so that i see incoming volume numbers for a specific price... but these numbers change so fast that it is hard to follow for my eyes

do you think this informaton could have any use for VSA trading?
Quoting Intel
Depending on the quality of the information given by your broker, this information is EXTREMELY useful. However, in the forex market, it is unlikely to be of much use unless you multiplex it with many other feeds. Even when you've done that, you would still need a top quality execution platform and a computer to do the trading for you in order to take advantage of it.
Hi Intel, Hope you're doing well. Greetings torkay77.

If torkay77 is referring to the "market depth" that is offered through Dukascopy, I would submit it is of little value IMHO. Partially, because Dukascopy is purposefully vague on who it's actual liquidity providers are (they have a web page with the big names shown, but elsewhere it's confirmed they do not use many of them any longer), and partially because Dukas has not provided details on how the numbers are derived and who's transactions they include. Also, because of the decentralized nature of the spot market, we will never/unlikely see the actions of a Kampo like entity (Japanese gov't entity) who is used as an extended arm to purchase/intervene in the yen - and the volume they drive: they are known to use foreign banks and providers to do their "work."

Also, the dukascopy "market depth" data lacks a detailed and proper explanation, to me at least. (If anyone can link to a dukas explanation, that would be great). It is akin to the DOM that all futures traders can view, but it is well know to have manipulative, misinterpretive and inconclusive data within it: this will partially be because of the significant portion of algo and black box systems in the market today, which will grap a pip (or more) over a fraction of a second, often in an exchange with a competitor's system, causing the big ladder to move erratically. Throw in that many of these are off system in black pool private network setups, and I believe it is difficult to make any sense of it.

Related to here, was a surprising live interview I saw with Joe Saluzzi of Themis Trading on the floor of the NYSE on Friday, who has shown and alerted traders to the manipulation of index data, where not all prices (and therefore volume) is not included as part of the quoted index price and volume data - he constitutes only 30% are included. This is significant manipulation IMO, and worth of a read here: "Phanton Indexes." Given we are discussing the decentralized spot fx market, the likelihood of this data flaw/occurrence is far greater IMO.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but if we're talking about multiplexing data, that would more specifically relate to the volume data, and, something like the eSignal GTIS datafeed (200+ banks, scroll down) already does a good part of that. Alternately, if you're thinking of including datafeeds (with volume) from as many major liquidity providers as possible (Currenex, Hotspot, UBS, CitiBank, Barclay, DB, JP - see the wiki page for the majors) things get far more complicated: the computing speed needed to do this type of real-time analysis is not easily nor economically available to the home user, and really gets into the world of algos and black boxes IMHO, for which $1M doesn't buy you very much, especially when you start factoring in collocation and speed requirements.

I think this discussion partially bridges into some of the perceived handicaps that retail traders have (some perception, some not) versus institutional/hedge/bank traders. I'd just finished reading this rather informative article, with fantastic insight that many beginners probably do not have, and I believe it might help with added insight towards what is being discussed here: Professional Versus Self-Taught FX Traders

Sorry if I've gone a little off topic, but I think at least bits and pieces from the above and the links, might help towards understanding the complexities of today's spot markets.
  • #149
  • Jun 25, 2011 8:48pm Jun 25, 2011 8:48pm
Cool thread, I have been interested in applying VSA to Gold and Silver trading,
as well as FX.

I have read the first few pages and plan to continue reading. Tried posting in the other VSA thread but just got looked over.

Thanks for starting, I will be stopping in.

-------------------------------------------

If I may ask Clifton what broker you use?
VSA seems like a style of trading similar to mine, I always look at volume and price action, but support and resistance as you had said are my number 1 technical tool.

What is somewhat unrealistic about many FX brokers, especially MT4 is the volume indicators. The main reason being that the broker of use only can provide volume of it's customers.

I have done many comparisons, of volume on demos and live accounts and I do see that they are "mostly" the same.

A while back I did a demo on "Pathfinder Trader" the platform offers futures and FX from one account on one platform, like Inter@ctiv Brokerz.

Point being the volume tools were far more advanced than many fx brokers, allowing you to adjust the candles to a setting called something like "Candlestick Volume" where the thickness and length of said candle would adjust according to volume, also the ability to see volume corresponding to price in a horizontal relationship as well as underneath.

So one could see the areas of price supply and demand via the horizontal vol chart. ( In other words the volume bars come out of the side of the screen ie:the right - and correspond with price and bar width and length.

This was integrated from the futures side of the platform.
Another thing pissy about retail FX is the complete lack of a price ladder or DOM "depth of market" allowing you to see what the bids and offers are on what price and the ability to trade inside the spread. This was allowed as far as I can remember, although being I am in the US all rules apply and have for a while to a CURRENEX feed which they were using. (ie: FIFO. hedging)

Thanks for starting, will stop in again,
XTrade-

edit: does anyone trade currency futures through CME?

disclaimer ( I HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH ANY BROK3R MENTIONED) strictly informational
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #150
  • Edited 8:53am Jun 26, 2011 8:33am | Edited 8:53am
Quoting Beljevina
Hi Intel, Hope you're doing well. Greetings torkay77.

If torkay77 is referring to the "market depth" that is offered through Dukascopy, I would submit it is of little value IMHO. Partially, because Dukascopy is purposefully vague on who it's actual liquidity providers are (they have a web page with the big names shown, but elsewhere it's confirmed they do not use many of them any longer), and partially because Dukas has not provided details on how the numbers are derived and who's transactions they include. Also, because of the decentralized...
thanks for clarification, also to Intel

indeed i am using Dukascopy....but i am not much into EA or high frequency trading for now so i mostly ignore the data anyway..it just happens rarely that the balance of shorts and longs is showing a huge difference like on may 5th before the huge drop in EURUSD when price did drop 100 pips in 90 sec...the Bid/Ask volume reached about 1000:100 seconds before that happend giving you some hints what about to happen
  • #151
  • Edited 5:44pm Jun 26, 2011 11:51am | Edited 5:44pm
usdjpy is difficult to trade these days cause it is endless ranging

so i am trying to look into VSA for some more hints

what do you think? does this look bearish or is the PT bar invalidated cause it did not look healthy?


http://www.ps.wol-clan.de/img/picshare_1309106640.gif


ahhh i made a mistake: ND bar is no real ND cause no lower close following
  • #152
  • Jun 27, 2011 10:03am Jun 27, 2011 10:03am
First trade of the week was a tokyo long spt, at work now will post charts later.

Right now euro is seeing climactic one hour vol at daily supply, watch for that spt
  • #153
  • Jun 27, 2011 10:14am Jun 27, 2011 10:14am
Hey t

The hull you have there has a role of filtering your entry, however spt is much much more powerful as a filter, so you wouldbe making it easier and safer on yourself by dropping it
  • #154
  • Jun 27, 2011 11:09am Jun 27, 2011 11:09am
Quoting frankkn
Hey t

The hull you have there has a role of filtering your entry, however spt is much much more powerful as a filter, so you wouldbe making it easier and safer on yourself by dropping it
i am used to the nonlag ma as my ETL ( = entry trigger line), means i set limit orders only at flat MA levels, it's from my own S/R strategy

but i realized the VSA entry signals are usually a bit later so in the moment I am comparing VSA signals with my own to find out if VSA signals (at least when i learned to read them correctly ) have a higher winning percentage
  • #155
  • Edited 6:04pm Jun 27, 2011 12:20pm | Edited 6:04pm
First trade of the week grabbed 3x risk

I'm familiar with Oanda's wacky volume feed, but would recommend IBFX or FXCM for your feed.

Also I only look for trades at major supply/demand areas.

Edit:

I'd like to mention that my interpretation of SPT is:

S: at a level of interest, either supply or demand is being swamped by SM showing up as hultra high volume on a wide spread bar into a level (has to be into a level for me)

P: push

T: test, for me it doesn't have to be the traditional VSA test (vol<prev 2, low < prev 2), it can also be a no selling pressure/squat/NS the reverse for shorts

The vertical line on this chart shows the entry bar

Followup, level went pop http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...19#post4730719
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: j27a.jpg Size: 77 KB
  • #156
  • Edited 9:05pm Jun 27, 2011 8:41pm | Edited 9:05pm
Quoting XTrade
Cool thread, I have been interested in applying VSA to Gold and Silver trading,
as well as FX.

I have read the first few pages and plan to continue reading. Tried posting in the other VSA thread but just got looked over.

Thanks for starting, I will be stopping in.

-------------------------------------------

If I may ask Clifton what broker you use?
VSA seems like a style of trading similar to mine, I always look at volume and price action, but support and resistance as you had said are my number 1 technical tool.

What is somewhat...
For volume I usually have 3 brokers to compare. IBFX, Go Trader and FXCM. As you said, for the most part they are very similar. It helps me spot quickly if one is acting up, like IBFX did recently.

I've often heard it said that the volume we are seeing is that of the brokers, as in volume of trading taking place for that particular broker. This never made sense to me. It's price change activity that creates volume, not transaction amount on that broker.

If traders at a particular broker affected price that much, there would have to be big differences in price from broker to broker. I'm no expert on this, maybe someone out there knows better about how brokers come up with price ticks. It's not of particular interest to me though.

As far as all the bells and whiles that come with futures volume, it didn't do anything for me personally. That's not to say one couldn't use it to gain an edge, but finding setups this way just suits me..so no advice to give on that.
  • #157
  • Jun 27, 2011 8:46pm Jun 27, 2011 8:46pm
Quoting torkay77
usdjpy is difficult to trade these days cause it is endless ranging

so i am trying to look into VSA for some more hints

what do you think? does this look bearish or is the PT bar invalidated cause it did not look healthy?


http://www.ps.wol-clan.de/img/picshare_1309106640.gif


ahhh i made a mistake: ND bar is no real ND cause no lower close following
Yep, at least 2 things that would keep you out of a trade.

The potential ND was not validated with a close below and the "push thru" candle had very high volume.
  • #158
  • Jun 27, 2011 9:00pm Jun 27, 2011 9:00pm
Quoting frankkn
First trade of the week grabbed 3x risk

I'm familiar with Oanda's wacky volume feed, but would recommend IBFX or FXCM for your feed.

Also I only look for trades at major supply/demand areas.

Edit:

I'd like to mention that my interpretation of SPT is:

S: at a level of interest, either supply or demand is being swamped by SM showing up as hultra high volume on a wide spread bar into a level (has to be into a level for me)

P: push

T: test, for me it doesn't have to be the traditional VSA test (vol<prev 2, low < prev 2), it can...
..some good charts from Duyk20 too, showing how it's done.
  • #159
  • Jun 27, 2011 9:06pm Jun 27, 2011 9:06pm
Quoting Clifton
..some good charts from Duyk20 too, showing how it's done.
Great charts. Did you take any trades today Clifton? Really enjoying your take on VSA.
  • #160
  • Jun 27, 2011 9:14pm Jun 27, 2011 9:14pm
Quoting aw714
Great charts. Did you take any trades today Clifton? Really enjoying your take on VSA.
Nope, haven't even seen charts since Friday. Looking to trade tues thru rest of the week, so I'll post.
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