Trades cancelled with broker | Page 3 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Has IC markets cancelled your VPS? 13 replies

Cancelled/gap on trade 14 replies

Why orders get cancelled? 1 reply

Cancelled order was filled 1 reply

OANDA limit order cancelled [high market volatility] 5 replies

Attachments: Trades cancelled with broker
Exit Attachments

Trades cancelled with broker

  • #41
  • Jun 22, 2011 5:46am Jun 22, 2011 5:46am
Quoting tar
yeah , regardless of lorbax case i am talking in general , but if you made money from errornous prices then it is not your money it is theirs .
If you ever want a car or anything call me ill set you up real cheap with it. I will raise price marginally every day, but i guess you will be ok with that.

A person have to misunderstood a lot of things in order to be able to make it seem logical or even possible to change an agreed price afterwards. If lorbax buy/sell at a certain price, and someone agrees to that price, its an AGREED price.

"Erroneous prices" pffh, scammers!

They should go get shovels and start digging a ditch or something maybe contribute SOMETHING to society instead of trying to tare it apart.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #42
  • Jun 22, 2011 6:00am Jun 22, 2011 6:00am
Quoting yaed
Thats theoretically AND practically impossible. If the broker gives you a price and you buy/sell at that price, how in the name of fuck can that be erenous? If it IS erenous you are NOT doing anything wrong, if you are able to buy/sell at that price they give you and you do it, you are not doing anything wrong you are just buying/selling at the price they give yah!

If i tell you i will sell my car to you for 7.000 dollars and you buy it for 7.000, i cant call you after two weeks and say "Hey i gave you the wrong price i ment to sell it for 9.000...
let me give you an example : if they now quote the euro 1.4000/1.4001 then this an erroronus price . It works both ways another example if you have a position on the euro and your stop is at 1.39 and your broker quoted 1.39 for one second taking your stop and the price went back to where it is now , is that ok ? it is an agreed price right ? there is no such thing as erroronus price ? you will complain or not ?
You will find this in the T&Cs you agreed on when u opened your account .
  • #43
  • Jun 22, 2011 6:03am Jun 22, 2011 6:03am
Quoting yaed
If you ever want a car or anything call me ill set you up real cheap with it. I will raise price marginally every day, but i guess you will be ok with that.

A person have to misunderstood a lot of things in order to be able to make it seem logical or even possible to change an agreed price afterwards. If lorbax buy/sell at a certain price, and someone agrees to that price, its an AGREED price.

"Erroneous prices" pffh, scammers!

They should go get shovels and start digging a ditch or something maybe contribute SOMETHING to society instead...
I dont know what the hell that means !
  • #44
  • Jun 22, 2011 6:11am Jun 22, 2011 6:11am
Quoting yaed
Thats theoretically AND practically impossible. If the broker gives you a price and you buy/sell at that price, how in the name of fuck can that be erenous? If it IS erenous you are NOT doing anything wrong, if you are able to buy/sell at that price they give you and you do it, you are not doing anything wrong you are just buying/selling at the price they give yah!

If i tell you i will sell my car to you for 7.000 dollars and you buy it for 7.000, i cant call you after two weeks and say "Hey i gave you the wrong price i ment to sell it for 9.000...
I agree..we act on what we see in trading, if anything its there problem..and for that guys saying we should go easy in trading and not be greedy..i never heard so much BS come from one mouth
  • #45
  • Jun 22, 2011 7:17am Jun 22, 2011 7:17am
Quoting tar
let me give you an example : if they now quote the euro 1.4000/1.4001 then this an erroronus price . It works both ways another example if you have a position on the euro and your stop is at 1.39 and your broker quoted 1.39 for one second taking your stop and the price went back to where it is now , is that ok ? it is an agreed price right ? there is no such thing as erroronus price ? you will complain or not ?
You will find this in the T&Cs you agreed on when u opened your account .
If the broker says the E/U price is 1.43991 and i buy at that price, and they let me do it, the deal is sealed like any business transaction. If that doesnt work, then price doesnt work. If that is not so, then price isnt price any longer price is something different.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #46
  • Jun 22, 2011 7:21am Jun 22, 2011 7:21am
Quoting tar
I dont know what the hell that means !
I mean that if i have the legal power to change price AFTER a deal has been struck, i can cheat you out of what ever cash amount. So if you buy my car and then i say the price was errenous i ment to charge 9.000 not 7.000, there is something wrong with that, agreed? And then next month i call you again and tell you, "No i ment to charge you 11.000 for the car, so you owe me another 2.000, just pay up dude!" then maybe you would think there is something wrong with that too?

Alpari is acting the same way, they want to charge lobax 9.000 for a car they sold for 7.000 couple of days ago. And then why not jack up the price to 11.000 or 69.000.000 for that matter?

Its OK if you dont agree with me but maybe you understand what i mean, and thats all i want.

I think if we dont understand what "price" means, that we shouldnt be trading, because its pretty much all about price.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #47
  • Jun 22, 2011 8:24am Jun 22, 2011 8:24am
Any broker I'm sure is obliged to give accurate prices and be responsible for them, BUT if a momentary glitch does occur and an erroneous price given, surely it is for the broker to show that the Trader must have been, on balance of probability, reasonably aware that the price being quoted was unrealistic or ridiculous? If so, the Trader would therefore be trading in full knowledge that it was not in accordance with the Terms of Trade of the broker. The trade should have been refused, but even if filled, then I fear there would still be a case for the broker to null and void it.

However, if it is not blatantly obvious the prices quoted are erroneous, I would suggest that the Trader is trading to the best of his knowledge in accordance with the broker's T.O.T and the responsibility for honouring that trade lay entirely with the broker. No T.O.T require traders to be psychic!

I think it is utterly ridiculous for a broker to 'review' many trades and state some had wrong prices!! That would be winning ones then??? Yaed's simple examples say it all.
  • #48
  • Jun 22, 2011 8:30am Jun 22, 2011 8:30am
Whats signed in the T&C's is what signed.

I'd expect 1 or 2 trades now and then to be erroneous, stuff happens.

But 300? come on lol...

Tell them to at least give back your deposit, then go after the profits.

Close your account with them and force any action you can through the regulators. Make em pay
  • #49
  • Jun 22, 2011 9:02am Jun 22, 2011 9:02am
Quoting yaed
If the broker says the E/U price is 1.43991 and i buy at that price, and they let me do it, the deal is sealed like any business transaction. If that doesnt work, then price doesnt work. If that is not so, then price isnt price any longer price is something different.
You didnt answer my question , if they quote 1.39 on the euro now for a moment and it reached your stop would u complain or u will say a price is a price ? u cant have it both ways . Anyway i agree 300 trades is different , however i signed to alpari uk demo and just tried the DE30 with myfxbook , 1 point on the DE30 at 1 contract = 100 pip , the guy have made 1 million pips so that is 10000 points on the Dax at 1 contract which is impossible , or 2000 points at 5 contracts he could have done it with 300 trades he has to be very good especially his account was suffering for long time then suddenly he made the money , maybe he used some super EA i dont know , it can be done ? ofcourse but it is strange , anyway goodluck to him i am not against him i even helped him on the first page . But to say that a price is always a price i disagree here because this will hurt us clients more than the broker , we need a benchmark ( the underlying market ) to compare prices with , otherwise our brokers will quote whatever prices they want and then we all f**** .
  • #50
  • Jun 22, 2011 11:25am Jun 22, 2011 11:25am
Quoting tar
You didnt answer my question , if they quote 1.39 on the euro now for a moment and it reached your stop would u complain or u will say a price is a price ? u cant have it both ways . Anyway i agree 300 trades is different , however i signed to alpari uk demo and just tried the DE30 with myfxbook , 1 point on the DE30 at 1 contract = 100 pip , the guy have made 1 million pips so that is 10000 points on the Dax at 1 contract which is impossible , or 2000 points at 5 contracts he could have done it with 300 trades he has to be very good especially...
Let me clarify a couple of things ....
Business is business and as YAED said trading it's pretty much all about price, if you are a market maker and you make a mistake pricing something wrongly ... it's your frikin' fault and you'll pay for it, that's why markets are said to be "perfect" , in the sense that every mistake is counter-balanced by someone's else profit. If the value of a car it's 9000 and I sell it for 7000, it's my fault that I priced it wrongly, not yours that bought it !!!

Having said that, I do understand your point about the stop loss if now for a software mistake they quote the EUR/USD 1,39 ... but that's a HUUUGE difference from the "real" value ... but if it's something like 2-3 points on the DAX how can I even realize it ? I mean, what if you have your beautiful 22" LCD screen with only Alpari opened ? .... dax is 7310/12 now... how can you say the real value is for instance 7320 ??? ...

And, also, Alpari's Terms of Business says:
Quote
9.36. The Company has the right to delete a position if:
(a) the Instruction to open the position precedes the first Quote in the Trading Platform on the
Market Opening and a Dealer erroneously executes it at the close price of the previous
trading session; or
(b) a Dealer erroneously executes the Instruction to open the position at an Error Quote
(Spike); or
(c) the Company makes a Manifest Error while processing the Customer’s Instruction to open
the position.
So it refers to "a position" not a closed trade, which is totally reasonable... referring to your exemple if I now open a trade on the e/u at 1,39 ... it's a mistake and they cancel my position , fine ... but what if I open it at 1,3900 and close it to 1,3902 just because those are the prices shown on the MT4 ? How can they cancel my 2pips profit ?

If my dad who doesn't know anything about trading, sits at the computer and sees 1,39 ... for him that is the correct price, how can he suspect it's wrong ? and moreover, how can they prove that he knew it was wrong!

Come on!!! This is like Bush accusing you of terrorism just because you have a beard ...
Lorenzo
  • #51
  • Jun 22, 2011 12:00pm Jun 22, 2011 12:00pm
Quoting onu
What else did you expect from broker with Russian roots...?
Russian roulette
Brokers are angels
  • #52
  • Jun 22, 2011 3:04pm Jun 22, 2011 3:04pm
Quoting tar
You didnt answer my question , if they quote 1.39 on the euro now for a moment and it reached your stop would u complain or u will say a price is a price ? u cant have it both ways . Anyway i agree 300 trades is different , however i signed to alpari uk demo and just tried the DE30 with myfxbook , 1 point on the DE30 at 1 contract = 100 pip , the guy have made 1 million pips so that is 10000 points on the Dax at 1 contract which is impossible , or 2000 points at 5 contracts he could have done it with 300 trades he has to be very good especially...
If it reaches my stop it reaches my stop, i have nothing to complain about. I dont see how your question is answerable. If it reaches my stop and they dont close the deal and later it reach my take profit i would not complain, if they make such a misstate its their burden to bear. Just like i dont go back to the supermarket if i pay less for my milk then it says on the label.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #53
  • Jun 23, 2011 4:38pm Jun 23, 2011 4:38pm
Quoting Sunbrella
Lorenzo, go to Forex Peace Army and file a case. You will see that this kind of advertising will help to quickly resolve your case.

Don't hesitate and go here:
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/traders_court/
Thank you for the hint.
I just filed the case and my colleagues are doing it too.

This is the thread on FPA : http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-...html#post66357

Thank you for now, I will keep you updated.
Lorenzo
  • #54
  • Jun 28, 2011 3:05pm Jun 28, 2011 3:05pm
I received an email from Alpari, in which they say that they WILL delete the 96% of my trades, because they are based on prices that significally differ the "real market price"

Here is the text:

Quote
We have discovered a bug in our pricing software which was disrupting our price feed with prices that were manifestly incorrect in the DE30 index instrument.
It is apparent from our investigation of this bug that your account was one that was taking advantage of this bug.

.....

For the avoidance of doubt “Manifest Error” is defined within the Terms of Business as follows:
“Manifest Error” shall mean an error of a Dealer who opens/closes a position or executes an Order at the price which significantly differs from the price for this Instrument in the Quotes Flow at the moment of taking this action, or any or any other Dealer’s action in respect of the prices which are significantly different from the market prices.

We have analysed a total of 288 trades which yielded a net profit to you of €22,230.00 in this instrument over the 8 day period 01/06/2011 to 08/06/2011.
Of these trades 277 were made at prices that differed from comparative market quotes, and in your favour, either upon entry, exit, or both.
This equates to a success rate of 95.85%, a figure that points unequivocally your receiving Manifest Errors in the quotation process.
These differences ranged from 1.0 pips to 65.5 pips (see attached spreadsheet)

Since we believe these trades to have been initiated in breach of our Terms as described above we will, under Section 8.8(a) of our Terms
debit your holdings with us to the extent of the sum owed.

This will occur no sooner than 7 days after the date of this email.

This is totally absurd, but the "funnyiest" part is this one:
This equates to a success rate of 95.85%, a figure that points unequivocally your receiving Manifest Errors in the quotation process.

As they basically admit that my profits corrispond to their losses, Otherwise,it's obvious, in the case I had manifestly incorrect prices, but LOST money they would have never initiated the dispute ...

I could, maybe, understand really significantly differences, but what about those with 1-2 points of difference, how could I be aware of it ???

If anyone had a similar problem, or can advise a good legal firm in the UK, please contact me also in private if you prefer.

I will never give up this till I have used all my rights!
Lorenzo
  • #55
  • Jun 28, 2011 3:46pm Jun 28, 2011 3:46pm
You could publish the trades here so people could check out themselfs if they were indeed off-market or not.

In any case, taking a month to come up with this is inacceptable. Such things need to be resolved within a few hours tops. For example on ARCA exchange a trade will stand 100% if the fill is not contested within 15 minutes. This needs to be done in a timley fashion since a trade-bust can affect subsequent trades, in the worst case even trigger a margincall.

If it takes alpari a few weeks to realize they quoted bad prices in their dax cfd, they really deserve to eat the loss - due to utter incompetence on their part. Unfortunately, the fineprint you signed probebly grants them to do just this, and more.
  • #56
  • Jun 28, 2011 3:58pm Jun 28, 2011 3:58pm
Quoting shrike
You could publish the trades here so people could check out themselfs if they were indeed off-market or not.

In any case, taking a month to come up with this is inacceptable. Such things need to be resolved within a few hours tops. For example on ARCA exchange a trade will stand 100% if the fill is not contested within 15 minutes. This needs to be done in a timley fashion since a trade-bust can affect subsequent trades, in the worst case even trigger a margincall.

If it takes alpari a few weeks to realize they quoted bad prices in their...
They are more than 300 trades, they compared with Bloomberg and they are from 1 to 65 points different from that ....
I wouldn't upload them yet because they are still under the dispute, so you can understand I'd prefer keeping my details.

Thank you very much for your support.
Lorenzo
  • #57
  • Jun 28, 2011 4:08pm Jun 28, 2011 4:08pm
i just opened an account at alpari-forex.com

not gonna deposit money in for now

everytime I find a broker that have an easy way to deposit/withdraw fund from where i live, turn out to be a scam !!! maybe my country is easy to scam !
  • #58
  • Jun 30, 2011 2:45am Jun 30, 2011 2:45am
Quoting kerozz
i just opened an account at alpari-forex.com

not gonna deposit money in for now

everytime I find a broker that have an easy way to deposit/withdraw fund from where i live, turn out to be a scam !!! maybe my country is easy to scam !
I am now using another broker, I don't wanna make advertising so I'll send you a PM. It's not regulated but it's pretty good.

Even if they are regulated but they can do whatever they want with your account, i'd prefer a non-regulated honest broker than!
Lorenzo
  • #59
  • Jun 30, 2011 3:08am Jun 30, 2011 3:08am
I remember some time back...some one gave me this system in which one slow downs speed of data feed,and keep another fast feed on another platform....idea was to make data feed of main platform lagging and take trades.which makes it winning.

i am not sure what was u trying to do,but 300 trades cant be all from freezed platform.
Trade responsiblypatience is the key/Swing trader
  • #60
  • Edited 3:31am Jun 30, 2011 3:18am | Edited 3:31am
Quoting Incrediblle
I remember some time back...some one gave me this system in which one slow downs speed of data feed,and keep another fast feed on another platform....idea was to make data feed of main platform lagging and take trades.which makes it winning.

i am not sure what was u trying to do,but 300 trades cant be all from freezed platform.
It has nothing to do with "frozen/freezed platform" ....
I was doing scalping trading on the DAX CFD, and apparently I made too much of profits for them and they claim that THEIR own prices were lagged compared to the "real" market quotes (Bloomberg) and so they are deleting me almost all trades made between the 06/01 and 09/06 .... does anyone think it's reasonable ?

I mean, I could understand if there were big differences, but how can you consider "manifest errors" more than 300 trades which had prices 1-2 or 4 points from the real price ?

The remaining 5% of the trades, that they are not going to cancel are ONLY LOSING TRADES, and they were made all together with the others, same days, same hours, same minutes, almost same seconds...

If they are losing trades THEY ARE NOT MANIFESTLY INCORRECT, REALLY ???

This is a pure scam .... it is at their sole decision to consider "manifest error" any price they don't like!
Lorenzo
0 traders viewing now