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Higher low, lower high system

  • #4,261
  • Jun 12, 2011 4:00am Jun 12, 2011 4:00am
Quoting pgd
Hi Vantage,

Pl see the attached annotated chart.

The H1 -ve close, the M15 -ve close and the M5 LH are all contained in the same H1 candle.

1. Is the marked short entry a valid system entry?

2. Does the position of the ma's as you see it on the chart change that in any way?

Thanks.
Hi pgd, what's the time/date of that candle? I'd like to look at it on my chart.
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,262
  • Edited 4:46am Jun 12, 2011 4:16am | Edited 4:46am
Vantage,

This entry is not on the candle that confirms the HL. it involves a delay as stated below:

1. Here, at the time the HL occurs, the previous H1 candle has a -ve close.
2. previous M15 candle is a weak +ve close with a long upper wick.

Entry is delayed until price takes out the two M15 dojis that follow, by which time the new previous H1 candle, though a doji, has a more favourable +ve close.

Is this a valid system entry?
Any other comments?

Thanks.

PS
Entry candle date/time:
24-May-2011
11:00 GMT+3 (or thereabouts)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 20110612-02-lh_hl.jpg Size: 68 KB
  • #4,263
  • Jun 12, 2011 4:41am Jun 12, 2011 4:41am
Quoting Ian
Hi pgd, what's the time/date of that candle? I'd like to look at it on my chart.
Ian,

Datetime info on the long candle marked as the entry candle:

27-May-2011
17:00 GMT+3 (or thereabouts)

Sorry, I'll more careful next time not to delete that info from the chart when removing the indicator windows.

cheers.
  • #4,264
  • Jun 12, 2011 5:00am Jun 12, 2011 5:00am
Quoting pgd
Hi Vantage,

Pl see the attached annotated chart.

The H1 -ve close, the M15 -ve close and the M5 LH are all contained in the same H1 candle.

1. Is the marked short entry a valid system entry?

2. Does the position of the ma's as you see it on the chart change that in any way?

Thanks.
Yes valid sell for me, the 5 min lh is the last candle of the 1hr and therefore obviously also the last candle of the 15 min neg close. Thats fine ie being last candle lh of 1hr.

I cannot seem to find that move on my charts. The slower ma, is that a 20 ema? It seems to be taking a long time to turn around. Perhaps it is, never mind.

This trade shows very nicely the flaws with ma's. Solid price action moves can get missed waiting for them to turn and trend down.

One thing vsa taught me is effort v result ie what did the candle do and what was the result. In this trade we have price at an extreme, a 1hr positive close with upper wick followed by a neg close hanging man. The pos close failed to follow through with the hanging man.

So yes valid trade and no the ma's wouldn't have worried me trade was at the extreme and ma's will take time to turn. 5 and 15 min ma'ss can help with continuation trades in the move ie the section where you are solidly above/below the 1hr 8 lwma and looking to take advantage of that section of move.
  • #4,265
  • Edited 5:25am Jun 12, 2011 5:22am | Edited 5:25am
Quoting pgd
27-May-2011
17:00 GMT+3 (or thereabouts)
Thanks.

Quoting Vantage
Yes valid sell for me, the 5 min lh is the last candle of the 1hr and therefore obviously also the last candle of the 15 min neg close. Thats fine ie being last candle lh of 1hr.

I cannot seem to find that move on my charts. The slower ma, is that a 20 ema? It seems to be taking a long time to turn around. Perhaps it is, never mind.

This trade shows very nicely the flaws with ma's. Solid price action moves can get missed waiting for them to turn and trend down.

One thing vsa taught me is effort v result ie what did the candle...
Here is the 1 hr chart in context. Red line is NY open. Nice 5 min lh rejection of psych level.

Edit: the 5 min ma's are 8lwma and 21ema

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ej_20110527-h1.gif Size: 20 KB


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ej_20110527-m5.gif Size: 21 KB
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,266
  • Jun 12, 2011 5:35am Jun 12, 2011 5:35am
Quoting pgd
Vantage,

This entry is not on the candle that confirms the HL. it involves a delay as stated below:

1. Here, at the time the HL occurs, the previous H1 candle has a -ve close.
2. previous M15 candle is a weak +ve close with a long upper wick.

Entry is delayed until price takes out the two M15 dojis that follow, by which time the new previous H1 candle, though a doji, has a more favourable +ve close.

Is this a valid system entry?
Any other comments?

Thanks.

PS
Entry candle date/time:
24-May-2011
11:00 GMT+3 (or thereabouts)
In some ways a toughie. The candle that jumped seems to be the time of eur news so if the move was aggressive even a pending order might not have filled at the price shown. So I'll comment on how I see it ignoring news possibilities.

Its in and around LO so we don't necessarily need 1hr candle to flip over. There was a clear supp area that day on the 75 level price kept bouncing up from there. 15 min chart had 4 lower wick hammers/dojis. It was not seen in 1hr per se as the 15 min candles overlapped the 1hr close. In total 60 mins hesitation at a supp area in the time of day that we are not TOTALLY looking at 1hr candles is fine to look to buy.

I suspect I would have struggled to have taken this as a trade. Price was zig zagging above/below round number. The entry for me might have been on the 5 min close 1 candle earlier 20 mins to the hour when the neg close hammer had formed. The entry you show has then had a 15 min small neg close and 2 5 min neg closes on the RN. I doubt I'd have seen that as a buy and if I was brave enough to pull the trigger. I usually enter on next candle following confirmed set up, max the 2nd candle following.

I have to say I wouldn't have got that trade and viewed it as a price move (albeit in direction expected) that was not tradeable in terms of rules.
  • #4,267
  • Jun 12, 2011 5:36am Jun 12, 2011 5:36am
Quoting Vantage
OK. The 5 min lh can coincide with the close of a 15 min candle OR it can follow a 15 min close. This 5 min lh follows the 1hr neg close shown by the red line.

Didn't get it we have had a bunch of visitors for mum in law. 100% system trade though.
Vantage,

Re. Your post #4252

why not the LH on the very next bar following the H1 close you've marked with a red vertical line?

thanks.
  • #4,268
  • Jun 12, 2011 5:43am Jun 12, 2011 5:43am
Quoting pgd
Vantage,

Re. Your post #4252

why not the LH on the very next bar following the H1 close you've marked with a red vertical line?

thanks.
I think just because in earlier posts we had discussed that general time frame and I was looking for trades away from that time frame but in the London session. A very quick look seems OK for a trade.
  • #4,269
  • Jun 12, 2011 5:52am Jun 12, 2011 5:52am
Other indi's sdx for 25/75 psych levels and ADR calculator. Thats very handy for London close set ups looking at 5 day atr. Current templates.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 SDX-SweetSpots_v5.2.mq4   12 KB | 609 downloads
File Type: mq4 xADR_vbobv1.mq4   4 KB | 608 downloads
File Type: tpl 1 hr.tpl   19 KB | 451 downloads
File Type: tpl 15 min.tpl   27 KB | 476 downloads
File Type: tpl 5 min.tpl   25 KB | 464 downloads
  • #4,270
  • Jun 12, 2011 6:17am Jun 12, 2011 6:17am
Just noticed also nice CII 1 hr divergence on that ej setup 27th May.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ej_20110527-h1.gif Size: 18 KB
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,271
  • Edited 12:36pm Jun 12, 2011 7:13am | Edited 12:36pm
Quoting Vantage
Yes valid sell for me, the 5 min lh is the last candle of the 1hr and therefore obviously also the last candle of the 15 min neg close. Thats fine ie being last candle lh of 1hr.

I cannot seem to find that move on my charts. The slower ma, is that a 20 ema? It seems to be taking a long time to turn around. Perhaps it is, never mind.

This trade shows very nicely the flaws with ma's. Solid price action moves can get missed waiting for them to turn and trend down.

One thing vsa taught me is effort v result ie what did the candle do and...
Thanks, Vantage.

All very clear now except when you say, "trade was at the extreme... ... ...", I don't quite get it. that would become apparent on hindsight only or am I missing something here?

Those are ema13, ema34 -- the ones that ev uses.

Thanks again.
pg
  • #4,272
  • Jun 12, 2011 8:28am Jun 12, 2011 8:28am
Pgd, From post 1,

Quoting Vantage
The original idea behind this thread, a good trader said to me that the first retracement is the best trade. The first higher low/lower high. These retracements provide good opportunites to enter into a move with a relatively small stop loss. A hl/lh confirms a test and failure to follow through at a certain level.

Trades 1 and 3 are the turn trades, at key levels and price extremes (of the session).
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,273
  • Edited 11:26pm Jun 12, 2011 11:10pm | Edited 11:26pm
Quoting Vantage
Other indi's sdx for 25/75 psych levels and ADR calculator. Thats very handy for London close set ups looking at 5 day atr.
Pl elaborate.
Also, this would relate to 6-7 pm on your charts, right?

Quoting Vantage
Current templates.
From the 3 templates you posted, I see that you use the following ma's:

lwma8 on M5, M15, H1
ema20 on M5, M15

how exactly do these contribute to your trade decision making process with respect to each TF ?

thanks.
  • #4,274
  • Jun 13, 2011 12:55am Jun 13, 2011 12:55am
Quoting pgd
Pl elaborate.
Also, this would relate to 6-7 pm on your charts, right?



From the 3 templates you posted, I see that you use the following ma's:

lwma8 on M5, M15, H1
ema20 on M5, M15

how exactly do these contribute to your trade decision making process with respect to each TF ?

thanks.
Hi pgd, could you share your indicator which has 1H and 15min candle in same chart?

Thanks,
  • #4,275
  • Jun 13, 2011 1:15am Jun 13, 2011 1:15am
Quoting orionfx
Hi pgd, could you share your indicator which has 1H and 15min candle in same chart?

Thanks,
Sure! it's a free indicator i downloaded a while back.
Here you go.
i've set the default to 60 min candles.
you'll need to apply it twice to each chart setting TimeFrame at 60 then at 15.

cheers.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 CustomCandle.mq4   9 KB | 495 downloads
  • #4,276
  • Jun 13, 2011 1:27am Jun 13, 2011 1:27am
Good morning, Vantage.

pl see attached chart and comment.

entry: 1.4335
exit : 1.4350

thanks.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 20110613-01-lh_hl.jpg Size: 196 KB
  • #4,277
  • Edited 10:25am Jun 13, 2011 1:33am | Edited 10:25am
Quoting pgd
Pl elaborate.
Also, this would relate to 6-7 pm on your charts, right?



From the 3 templates you posted, I see that you use the following ma's:

lwma8 on M5, M15, H1
ema20 on M5, M15

how exactly do these contribute to your trade decision making process with respect to each TF ?

thanks.
1hr 8 lwma are we above/below it, my basic short term definition of trend. Chuck on 1hr just have a quick look at the runs that occur and ask if there would be enough opportunities to get a trade in successfully.

8 lwma and 20 ema the classic uses of ma's as trend indi's ie good andle and separation. On 5 and 15 min's.

5 min 8lwma, if there is a cross in price ie move through up + close, then move through down + close there's often a hl/lh trade, in this case a sell.

If I am trading against these then I want very good reasons to and this is the stuff we talk about every day right time, key area (SR, pivot etc) and good candles. If I'm going against ma's and I'm worried about anything I'll be quite happy to leave.
  • #4,278
  • Jun 13, 2011 1:43am Jun 13, 2011 1:43am
Quoting pgd
Good morning, Vantage.

pl see attached chart and comment.

entry: 1.4335
exit : 1.4350

thanks.
Whats there to say but nice trade. 1hr doji at the Fri low. 15 min pos close, 5 min hl little/no upper wick and exit at the 50 psych level. 100% system trade.
  • #4,279
  • Jun 13, 2011 1:45am Jun 13, 2011 1:45am
Quoting Vantage

If I am trading against these then I want very good reasons to and this is the stuff we talk about every day right time, key area (SR, pivot etc) and good candles. If I'm going against ma's and I'm worried about anything I'll be quite happy to leave.
Hi pg
A good example I just posted if below the 1hr 8 lwma then we want good reasons to buy. Your post above ticks all the good reasons boxes.
  • #4,280
  • Jun 13, 2011 3:05am Jun 13, 2011 3:05am
Quoting Vantage
1hr 8 lwma are we above/below it, my basic short term definition of trend. Chuck on 1hr just have a quick look at the runs that occur and ask if there would be enough opportunities to get a trade in successfully.

8 lwma and 20 ema the classic uses of ma's as trend indi's ie good andle and separation. On 5 and 15 min's.

5 min 8lwma, if there is a cross in price ie move through up + close, then move through down + close there's often a hl/lh trade.

If I am trading against these then I want very good reasons to and this is the stuff we talk about...
Understood.

Reasons for selection of those particular ma types / periods ?
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