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VSA with Clifton

  • #41
  • Jun 7, 2011 8:08pm Jun 7, 2011 8:08pm
Is this a thread about a trading method or a thread about what's going on over at other threads?

Clifton, your presentation is clear, concise and excellent. Your stout refusal to be sucked in by off-topic trolling is a class act as well.
  • #42
  • Jun 7, 2011 8:28pm Jun 7, 2011 8:28pm
Clifton,

You are clear in your explanation, so keep going & don't be distracted by the negative posters that are showing up.

_____________________________
  • #43
  • Jun 8, 2011 3:31am Jun 8, 2011 3:31am
Quoting duyk20
So, your standard and highest level of vsa is from Mal, HG, right?

I hope you are profitable

Show me a better VSA thread than Mals.

On his first post Clifton claims to have been trading for 9 years yet he can`t even recognise stopping volume,...intersting how he has now removed those chart examples.

If you`re going to start a thread on a certain trading style/system at least learn it first.

Blind leading the blind.
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #44
  • Jun 8, 2011 6:30am Jun 8, 2011 6:30am
Quoting gez40
Show me a better VSA thread than Mals.

On his first post Clifton claims to have been trading for 9 years yet he can`t even recognise stopping volume,...intersting how he has now removed those chart examples.

If you`re going to start a thread on a certain trading style/system at least learn it first.

Blind leading the blind.
Of course, Mals thread is the best so far here in ff, since Mals is very good at it and Dr.G- the very first person brought vsa into forum.
But, I don't know who's blind here since the chart examples still there, mind checking again in 1st and 2nd page?

In the first chart example, if it's not stopping volume, read mtm again, i would say it's potential stopping volume since we have to see how price develops afterwards. mtm, page 97. Clown.
  • #45
  • Jun 8, 2011 8:03am Jun 8, 2011 8:03am
Quoting duyk20
Of course, Mals thread is the best so far here in ff, since Mals is very good at it and Dr.G- the very first person brought vsa into forum.
But, I don't know who's blind here since the chart examples still there, mind checking again in 1st and 2nd page?

In the first chart example, if it's not stopping volume, read mtm again, i would say it's potential stopping volume since we have to see how price develops afterwards. mtm, page 97. Clown.

LOL, you don`t have stopping volume on an up move

Buying is needed to "stop" a down move.

"

This action changes the direction of the move, or causes the price to go sideways, away from its original downward direction, showing that professional money has stepped in and has taken an opportunity to accept the selling – usually from weak holders. The professional money has to accumulate stock and encourage other traders to part with their holdings – sharp down-moves will encourage this. Any low volume test after this event will be a sign of strength. Stopping volume can be compared to a downhill skier who, as he finishes his long run, has to stop by turning the skis sharply. This is spectacular, throwing up plenty of snow, which eventually stops him."



duyk20, try p168 or read p97 again, shall me move on from this?
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #46
  • Jun 8, 2011 8:36am Jun 8, 2011 8:36am
well, we have stopping volume for the downmove, why not have for the upmove, consider here is currency market. You are applied the term too loosely imo
  • #47
  • Jun 8, 2011 1:13pm Jun 8, 2011 1:13pm
Quoting gez40
LOL, you don`t have stopping volume on an up move

Buying is needed to "stop" a down move.

"
[left]This action changes the direction of the move, or causes the price to go sideways, away from its original downward direction, showing that professional money has stepped in and has taken an opportunity to [size=2][font=TimesNewRomanPSMT][size=2][font=TimesNewRomanPSMT]accept the selling...


I think you took a wrong turn on the way to the stock market and now you're a bit lost. Even the book you're citing specifically mentions that it's talking about stocks.

This is the FOREX market. It's a relative value market that deals in pairs (unlike the securities markets). There is no distinction here between an up move and a down move.

When a pair moves up, its inverse pair is moving down. A rise in EUR/USD is the same thing as a decline in the USD/EUR. The choice of the pair's base currency and counter currency is entirely arbitrary.

No one in the FOREX market is ever purely "long" or "short". A trader is always long one currency in a pair and short the other.
  • #48
  • Jun 8, 2011 3:48pm Jun 8, 2011 3:48pm
he absolutely did not take a wrong turn. the book originates from a time where currencytrading was not that common. the principles remain the same and work across the board since supply & demand is tracked.

even if there was a pair called DRG/CHERYLCOLE the activity in that pair (which for sure would move from one climax to the other) could be tracked.


Quoting capitalist88
I think you took a wrong turn on the way to the stock market and now you're a bit lost. Even the book you're citing specifically mentions that it's talking about stocks.

This is the FOREX market. It's a relative value market that deals in pairs (unlike the securities markets). There is no distinction here between an up move and a down move.

When a pair moves up, its inverse pair is moving down. A rise in EUR/USD is the same thing as a decline in the USD/EUR. The choice of the pair's base currency and counter currency is entirely...
  • #49
  • Jun 8, 2011 6:03pm Jun 8, 2011 6:03pm
Who cares how you call it. stopping volume, buying climax, bin laden bar, blabla bla bar volume.
the important thing in VSA is what volume and spread can tell you about SM intentions. if i see up bar wide spread hight volume close near the midle, i can call it whatever i like and it doesnt matter, as long as i can understand that it might be a sign that sellers step in and i need look for further confirmations for
possible down move.

And GEZ you can continue to blindly memorize chapters from the book
hope it helps you.

cheers.
  • #50
  • Jun 8, 2011 7:31pm Jun 8, 2011 7:31pm
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
he absolutely did not take a wrong turn.
Then why is he claiming that some pattern is valid only for "down moves" and not for "up moves?" In FOREX, that's rubbish because just by switching the arbitrary choice for the base currency, you turn every "up move" into a "down move" and vice-versa.

You know better than that. As you just pointed out, we could have a pair called aardvark/hamster. When you can get more hamsters for each aardvark, then aar/ham is going up. But if I had called the pair hamster/aardvark instead, then the price would be going down.

If a pattern works in one direction, then the same (horizontally symmetric) pattern will work in the other direction.
  • #51
  • Jun 8, 2011 10:03pm Jun 8, 2011 10:03pm
It's nice that I've sparked such a spirited debate.
With all due do respect to all sides, maybe it's best to take it somewhere else. Perhaps open a new thread on the topic.

In the spirit of forexfactoy I would like to continue sharing what I do, in my thread. People can chose take it or leave it. In fact I'm glad this discussion came about, but please allow me to focus this thread on it's intent now.
  • #52
  • Edited 4:11am Jun 9, 2011 2:33am | Edited 4:11am
Clifton,

Move if you must, but you will continue to receive the negative comments as it is the nature of some who post on these trading forums. I wish you the best.

___________________
  • #53
  • Jun 9, 2011 3:47am Jun 9, 2011 3:47am
Quoting capitalist88
Then why is he claiming that some pattern is valid only for "down moves" and not for "up moves?" In FOREX, that's rubbish because just by switching the arbitrary choice for the base currency, you turn every "up move" into a "down move" and vice-versa.

You know better than that. As you just pointed out, we could have a pair called aardvark/hamster. When you can get more hamsters for each aardvark, then aar/ham is going up. But if I had called the pair hamster/aardvark instead, then the price would be going down.

If a pattern...
Yes.
  • #54
  • Jun 9, 2011 3:51am Jun 9, 2011 3:51am
Quoting rocketor
Who cares how you call it. stopping volume, buying climax, bin laden bar, blabla bla bar volume.
the important thing in VSA is what volume and spread can tell you about SM intentions. if i see up bar wide spread hight volume close near the midle, i can call it whatever i like and it doesnt matter, as long as i can understand that it might be a sign that sellers step in and i need look for further confirmations for possible down move.
There you have it, understanding what is going on.
  • #55
  • Jun 9, 2011 5:28am Jun 9, 2011 5:28am
Quoting Clifton
It's nice that I've sparked such a spirited debate.
With all due do respect to all sides, maybe it's best to take it somewhere else. Perhaps open a new thread on the topic.

In the spirit of forexfactoy I would like to continue sharing what I do, in my thread. People can chose take it or leave it. In fact I'm glad this discussion came about, but please allow me to focus this thread on it's intent now.


ignore them and please tell us more of your knowledge
  • #56
  • Jun 9, 2011 12:55pm Jun 9, 2011 12:55pm
Quoting Clifton
It's nice that I've sparked such a spirited debate.
With all due do respect to all sides, maybe it's best to take it somewhere else. Perhaps open a new thread on the topic.

In the spirit of forexfactoy I would like to continue sharing what I do, in my thread. People can chose take it or leave it. In fact I'm glad this discussion came about, but please allow me to focus this thread on it's intent now.
  • #57
  • Edited 11:30am Jun 13, 2011 10:59am | Edited 11:30am
A couple of nice opportunities to get long on g/u today, including the setup I've already shown on the 5 min.

let's talk about "Background". I use the simple Wyckoff method of identifying phases, on a 1 hr chart. Coming into today g/u was in "Accumulation" phase. In this phase, smart money is building up long positions mainly off the bottom of a range. The Accumulation phase is identified by seeing...

1. High volume down bars to stop a down move. (stopping volume)

2. A sideways range after this stopping volume, with higher volume on down bars than up bars.

3. The highest volume of the range is at the bottom, as price tests the lows.

This is how smart money accumulates large positions without marking up price yet. If they put in the entire eventual position all at once, price would have shot up fast. Such a large position at such a low price would be impossible.

As I've said before, the setup I've shown in previous posts applies nicely to the 1 hr. See chart.

With this as my background I looked to the 5 min for entry. There were multiple setups on the 5 min but I highlighted the setup I've already shown in here.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3899/gu1hr5min.gif

Click the chart to enlarge.
Plenty more to come. I know I had some questions to answer too...

P.S. Yes, I know they are candles lol.
  • #58
  • Jun 13, 2011 11:45am Jun 13, 2011 11:45am
Quoting Evak
Very nice thread & post of UJ Clifton..

I use Wyckoff analysis a lot to identify VSA setups & here is my EJ trade base on that, very similar development s to UJ. Nice to see someone doing trades like this, looking left to trade right here...

Attachment
Very nice, thanks for posting. This shows that in the real world, the setup I've been teaching here has it's variations. What you call a "spring test" I might call a shakeout, or simply a sign of strength (high volume wide spread down bar, with next bar bullish).

My interpretation of that is a very strong, or appealing test of supply. Price got thrown down to where it didn't "belong" to see if it would stick. Sometimes they will hit stops too. It's also an opportunity for smart money to buy up just a bit more (buying into down bars) before the up move.
  • #59
  • Jun 13, 2011 12:00pm Jun 13, 2011 12:00pm
Quoting Waforex
Hi Clifton,
Thanks for your explanation, it seems very clear and repeatable. I have a few questions if I may.
The supply line, was it previously drawn on the chart or did you just draw it in once the NS candle formed and then the small candles after congregated in this area?

If one was to take this trade, would entry be the break of the push thru supply candle and stop under the supply line?

[b]You...
After stopping volume on a down move I usually wait for a resistance level to setup for a minimum of 3, 5 min candles..or 15 mins.

You can enter on the push through supply candle close (making sure it doesnt have ultra high volume) or you can wait for the NS test. Sometimes you don't get a test, and sometimes the test fails and continues down. Waiting for the test is less aggressive.

This setup will come most days if you are watching say..4 pairs. There are other setups I'll get to.

Targets are simple support resistance and VSA signs of reversal.
  • #60
  • Jun 13, 2011 12:31pm Jun 13, 2011 12:31pm
I like this thread

A note to the haters: if you don't have anything to contribute, ask yourself "Why am I posting here?"

Please, let's keep it constructive.

Clifton in a recent post I'd like to thank you for mentioning background. VSA needs to be put into context, and is not a signal spitting method. This throws a lot of people off.

Moving beyond terms and names for bars for a moment, when volume is extraordinarily high this means the pros are active. Consider this in context by asking yourself are the pros active while the market is falling? (this is one example of context, personally I like to use larger time frame supply and demand analysis for my context, we're all different) If so this means there could be buying. Next you can look for whatever clues you want, be they VSA entries (very good choice), price action, or whatever the hell you are the most successful with.

Let's keep this thread constructive, it does have a place here. There are two other threads on this web site that address VSA, but they can be overwhelming for someone who's not used to VSA.
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