Thinking Outside the Box!?!

pip_seeker : cool. thx for the reply. i don't have anything at this time to say in return at this time. busy playing with a new toy i wrote this morning for mt4. maybe when i re-read tomorrow and after another sleep. in the meantime i guess people just gotta keep on truckin.

newyear : jedi mind fucked you? rofl.

question : any tips on unscrewing a messed-up sleep-cycle? i think i'd be fine if the days were 26hrs long instead of 24. i'm buzzing atm :S

tips, try cardio exercise.. take a power walk for a half hour at the least.. jog if you feel ambisish.

could try milk and / or turkey (both chemicals that induce sleeping)

or you could get baller and eat tons of fat foods so your body pulls the blood from your brain to your stomach.. you'll be out real quick.. just feel like a fatass

also sex works well.. high probability you'll fall asleep after or during it ROFL

I'm tired of reading peoples Risk to Reward ratios

to me its just one of the many fallacies of thinking

when you place a trade your risk is the only thing that is defined..

your reward is unknown


but I guess thats why I'm an out of the box thinker who knows nothing...

if you base that on your statistics (trade history), then the average reward over a large number of trades is known. Your reward is only not known on each single trade, but definitely over a large number of trades.

good good good point... average reward.. I like this

Thanks custos

Heres one for you... take a hard earned $20 bill, go outside, and light it on fire, ensure it burns completely.

I think this should separate those who can and cannot make it in forex



Regards,
NY


PS: (everything in this post is hypothetical.. burning currency is illegal in almost every case.. I do not support breaking the law under any circumstances)

something that has been gnawing away at me that i struggle to make anything of (that doesn't involve a risk model that i don't like) is the element of fat tails / black swans.

a coin-flip has a beginning and an end and either a win or loss... trading just isn't so clear-cut. you win or lose when you or your broker says so, and in between these extremes are degrees of winning and losing. to a degree you mold the outcome as you manage the risk and trades as they progress through time.

anyway... this is nothing new, or shouldn't be. it's just an itch i can't yet scratch.

In essence this is what the profitable trader does upon entering any position.... it's the re-incarnation part that seperates the winners from the losers.

re-incarnation of money can lead to an orchard out back, just go pick some if you need to.

Personally I love the orchard, it's nice and shady back there and for some reason there are no bugs either, me thinks the money smell is a natural bug repellant. And there's nothing better than the smell of money in the morning...

yeah yeah, you have had it spelled out to you but you insist in re-inventing the wheel. You are beyond help.

sorry for not being elite and spinning in circles. good day.

rambling boring story ahead... tl;dr alert!

you are RIGHT. i can't be told. it's that simple. i take little 'knowledge' from the half-sentences and pseudo-hints dropped all over the place. it's a game for some to stand on the shoulders of others.

i have little doubt that all of the 'wisdoms' given both directly to me and also generally throughout the net regarding trading have been of little to no personal benefit. if anyone has tried to 'help' me, directly or indirectly, then i have little doubt you have wasted your time in its entirety.

you see the problem with it all is that no one will flat-out paint a picture, or when they do the picture appears flawed (so is either incomplete or really is flawed). i can only base my perceptions of everything from previous personal experience and understanding. it's likely that some of the things i have picked-up from others through their 'wisdom' i have entirely misunderstood and incorrectly associated to things in the wrong way and have handicapped myself without even knowing it.

i'm a programmer by hobby. the things i was 'taught' at school were of little value as i had already learned those lessons in my own time and was past the boring basics. the things i wanted to learn about i had to search for on my own... the problem was the knowledge i found was in a completely new technical language that i could not understand. it was all a mosh-pit of confusing terms and concepts that i had never encountered before.

as i built my own project based on what i wanted to learn about i ran into barriers and problems that i had to figure-out, and in doing this the end-goal of what i was creating started to come to being on its own. it was a natural progression from simple curiosity to having a clearer target and objectives. as time progressed and different puzzles came up and i worked-out how to put the pieces together correctly i started to understand some of the language and concepts i had previously read about but could not understand. what i was creating had the very same elements and concepts i had previously read about and so in creating my own solutions to the puzzles i came across i also learned the language and concepts that others were already using. things began to make sense and became clearer. this is probably really just a form of learning through immersion.

the things i had read about were vague concepts with no ties to anything i could relate to. it was only as i walked the path for myself and let my curiosity take me on a journey of discovery that i was able to see the things others were talking about and finally understand their words and language and see the different pieces fall into place and make a whole.

there are still aspects that i don't understand and certain things i can't relate to and are above me... but so much that didn't make sense now makes perfect sense and most of all i can read most of the technical language and understand its ACTUAL meaning instead of some vague guessed idea or notion. i know that some of the things i have done a certain way are NOT how others do it, but it was my journey and i did things in a way that made perfect sense to me with the knowledge and perceptions i had, so although i did it quite differently and see certain aspects from a different angle the end result is the same overall. it is just a different way of doing it than how others do it.

....

all of the 'wisdoms' and so on that all of the elite drop here and there probably make perfect sense to some people, yet be completely devoid of any substance to others. previous experience that builds perceptions and understandings and biases lead different people to see things different ways and to have different languages to describe different aspects. when some elite says pumpkin one person sees a nicely baked piece of orange food, yet another person sees a halloween pumpkin with a demon face carved into it with a candle inside making the whole things glow.... they are both pumpkins, but the meaning is different for different individuals and so the language and meaning is NOT clear.

some of the 'wisdoms' i have come across over time and associated to certain things might be the very things that are holding me back. i may have incorrectly associated 1 thing with another and i'm looking at things incorrectly without knowing it or having reason or ability to know it.

we all bring our own baggage to trading. some see things a certain way and this aids them, others see things a different way and are not seeing clearly. some people are looking at exactly the same stuff as others but have the wrong glasses on and don't even know it.

my tank is fight!

I think this is something that's easy to overlook. IMO you absolutely need to understand the context of the information you are taking in. Are you taking advice from a quant? A discretionary TA trader? A pure FA trader? A news trader? All of those people are going to have different definitions of the same words.

For example:
A pure TA trader's definition of trend is. Is the chart going from the lower left to the upper right? If it is, we have an uptrend.

A news trader will see a series of news releases that shaped the market into the uptrend it is.

A quant might even say that the trend is irrelevant.

Before I decide to extract information from a trader on FF I always define the context of their words from the type of trader I believe them to be. It makes for a lot less confusion.

And keep in mind that NOT everybody who is giving "advice" truly know what the fuck they're talking about or are profitable themselves (most aren't). If you want real help, do what I did and take advice only from people you KNOW are profitable themselves.

Nubcake, I think you expect a "holy grail" with no risk. I didn't get profitable by NOT risking failure many times. I try to avoid this as much as possible but that's my risk and the risk I've chosen and it's because of this is to why I am successful.

You can beat the market but only if you understand that you have to risk something to beat it. I know of no one who trades with out risk.

What you ask for is for some one to paint a picture... but if someone paints one and you see the risk involved I already know what your response would be... you want a free ride when one doesn't exist in this market.

I've already painted a picture at least a couple times but if you can't accept the risk the picture I paint is like a Rembrandt locked up in some smithsonian museum somewhere so far from view you need binoculars to see it.

Lastly you are so negative... oh poor me, no one can help me... blah blah. With that kind of attitude who should really want to. Snap out of it man.

I think the major problem is that people always only talk about the risk of individual trades. Trading over the long-term should essentially be risk-free. Best is to compare trading to a casino. Does a casino have risk of losing? yes and no. Yes, there is a risk that they lose in the short-term. But no, there is absolutely no risk of losing in the long-term.
If you don't have an edge like a casino does, you are essentially gambling, and yes, then even in the long-term you are at risk of losing.
Essentially most people who give advice here are seeing risk from a trade to trade basis. Wrong approach if you ask me. The ones who have a long-term edge like a casino unfortunately won't reveal how trading without risk will be achieved over the long-term.

Well, I think he is right to be so negative, cause once you start becoming realistic you will take another leap forward.

A right to be negative, my god wtf are you on, Columbus, Scott and a few others would have never have started at that rate.

Every time a butcher or greengrocer buys their goods to sell for a profit they take a risk, if they don't sell it before it goes off they are fu**ed.

All traders take risk, you should find another job if you don't get it.

???

i don't want it handed to me. when have i EVER said that? i don't expect a free ride and don't deserve one. i would like to have some pride in becoming successful because it's been a long journey and continues to be so and it would be for nothing if it was all just handed to me on a platter. i'm not being a 'poor me' type of person. do i struggle? at times you bet! these things happen. life happens.

i think you misconstrue what i mean when i say that the message some of you send isn't being received. i'm not asking for your golden goose. i'm simply saying that someone can say one thing and they can be interpreted completely wrong. i'm saying that i think i have mis-associated some key things and whatever the message was has been received incorrectly and now screws with everything i see and think.

i'm not saying 'poor me', i'm saying 'eff me maybe i need to reconsider some personal axioms that i've built all of my perspective from'. all i've wanted and continue to want from the factory, apart from lulz, was inspiration or guidance on how to become inspired and see things from a different angle that i hadn't considered and otherwise never would have considered. i'm not guaranteed the inspiration but i'm guaranteed the lulz so there's always that keeping me on the forum (i don't mean you guys (or do i(no i don't)?)).

now, regarding risk... obviously you need to risk something to gain something. one of the things i had locked-away as solid was how to manage risk because there are tired old mantras repeated everywhere regarding risk that i have taken onboard when maybe i shouldn't have. the message i had received from different posts throughout the net might not have been the message sent (or the message sent was only half-formed and misleading by intent). i am reconsidering the way i have previously looked at the risk aspect.

as per the content in my previous post i have re-read some things that had previously been incoherent and meaningless. with fresh eyes and new thinking i am either now seeing the message for what it might really mean, or i am simply imposing some fresh ideas onto ambiguous text that doesn't actually mean what i think it does. it doesn't really matter because at least it's fresh and new to me, even if wrong. after a sleep i plan to trawl through this thread and see if i see anything i hadn't picked-up on previously.

anyway, it's been awhile and things had become stagnant but finally at this time i have some new thoughts and angles to pursue and see what i can see and perhaps discover some further ideas in the process and rebuild some axioms. i will find out what comes of this, if anything.

i wish i could make a copy of my brain and then delete all trading-related thoughts and memories and start fresh for awhile just to see what arises and see if it is something new and inspired. i think i might be getting unknowingly hung-up on some stuff because i have conflicting ideas that i don't realize are conflicting with each other and it's creating a stalemate in my brain. perhaps this is just another aspect of what makes trading hard, and to be successful you can't get hung-up on all of the stuff designed to limit the damage rookies make to themselves. perhaps i have baggage that i don't know about.

anyways. seriously, what the hell am i saying that is pissing you all off so much? i mentioned about something that has been itching the back of my mind and jag gets all fired-up. now you are saying i'm playing a victim. tell me what it is i have said that resulted in this and i will do my best to simply shut my trap and be done with those things.

if there is only one thing people take from this post it is the following :

if i am not HEARING you correctly then i need to somehow learn your LANGUAGE, not be told i'm a moron or a moaner. consider me a foreign exchange student who is still learning the language and still has a few things to learn about your country. if you don't have time for a foreign exchange student then cool, but don't call me a FOB and spit at my feet if this is the case.

it seems like you didn't read my post at all. All you can do is bash people all over the place, if they don't have your opinion. Get a new hobby.

There is a risk with this game and it's unavoidable no matter how good a trader you are.

For the 2 partys on each side of a trade, 1 will win and the other will lose But, the winner will ALWAYS win LESS than the loser loses. This is because there is a middle man taking his 'cut' of the winnings. We call this the spread.

Ok thats a bit basic but once you fully understand it, you will soon get to realise that to make money at trading, you have to overcome the risk/spread. It is as simple as that. In order to become successful we don't need to make hundreds of pips per trade, we simply need to overcome the risk/spread each time we trade.

This is where our trading knowledge comes in. If we can beat the spread every time we trade, we will be very rich very soon.

In a nutshell, spread is unavoidable therefore, risk is unavoidable.

I did read your post, you are not a casino and a traders edge is him/herself.

Traders win trades every day many times a day. You cannot do it so you tell everyone it cannot be done.

Are you and Nub the same person?

People need encouragement to succeed not some of the crap you come out with.

My hobby is helping people that want to help themselves.