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Thinking Outside the Box!?!

  • #321
  • May 26, 2011 10:11pm May 26, 2011 10:11pm
Quoting nubcake
jag : what would i say if someone gave me a system like that? i would say "huh? now what?". there are plenty of systems out there, and some surely are making a few coins here and there. i don't want a system. i want an UNDERSTANDING. i don't want to be told to turn left then right then go straight for 2 blocks and stop... i want to know how to read a map and understand the terrain.

teach a man to fish etc.
You want to be able to trade like a winner. Doesn't everybody? What makes you think that someone else's system or methology of how they trade could be your own?

I have given you examples to make you think. But you would rather get pissed off because you refuse to think about things. Yeah I admit some of the stuff I print is in "FINE CODE".

The ones that get it will get it the others that don't will get pissed off by it. In the end it's just another forum board discussion. The fact of the matter is if I gave you how I trade it's unlikely you would gain from it because you are not me.

You don't know what I do to make it work. Most of the time it works by itself, but when it doesn't it's the fine art of not panicking. Could you learn it? Maybe. Could you sustain the risk? probably not. (there are times that I think the same of myself, but somehow I pull it out.)

I think the whole idea of this thread is to get you to think for yourself. If you don't learn a methodology of what to do in your trading when things go bad what will anything profit you?

My perspective is not only teaching someone to fish, but getting them to pick up the pole and do a little self discovery on their own.

Nubcake, if you have to start over don't be afraid to do so. I've done it at least a thousand times. That is start over from scratch. What I said wasn't meant to piss you off, it was to get you to think.

I'm sure you've gotten handouts and freebies before and where did that get you? You have to do a little bit of self discovery to get there.
  • #322
  • May 26, 2011 10:52pm May 26, 2011 10:52pm
Quoting pip_seeker
I believe I already gave the definition of what "outside the box" is. Not saying it might mean something different to you.
I think you're missing my point.

The way you're understanding it is: We look at news to try to predict market sentiment/direction based on them (e.g. bad numbers for the dollar = go short on the dollar). That is most definitely not what I meant.

Again: We don't try to analyze the news. We watch them simply for their (very real) effects on orderflow. The importance of keeping an eye on them lies there. You want to be aware what's happening to volume and why all these orders are suddenly rushing in and spiking up volatility. If a daytrader wants to ignore that aspect and trade blindly to volume/volatility explosions that could have otherwise been predicted, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat. http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon6.gif But so far I don't see one good argument not to be aware of news events as an intraday trader.
  • #323
  • May 27, 2011 6:41am May 27, 2011 6:41am
Quoting Marv
I think you're missing my point.

If a daytrader wants to ignore that aspect and trade blindly to volume/volatility explosions that could have otherwise been predicted, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat. http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon6.gif But so far I don't see one good argument not to be aware of news events as an intraday trader.
Well I think how trade blind you are has more to do with which glasses you are wearing... short / term or long term. To play off the news as you say you do would require 24/7 listening as random events such as terrorism or earth quakes or who knows what can throw ripples thru the FX pond.

If you do well with news releases that are planned how well do you do with an unplanned news event? So when I said what I said I was grouping the whole mess together. Plus mix this in with brokers who increase spreads during news releases or shut you out all together makes it even more difficult.

It took me a long time to get a grip on the news "wild card". But ya know as I said earlier there is more than one way. The market is big so there's room for everyone.

At the end of the day, week or month all that matters is that your profitable. You have to find your way to make it work. If it ain't broken don't go in and try to fix it.

I still group the news "inside the box" though. You can disagree with that if you want, I'll let ya.
  • #324
  • May 27, 2011 7:48am May 27, 2011 7:48am
Quoting pip_seeker
I still group the news "inside the box" though. You can disagree with that if you want, I'll let ya.
That's like me saying: I group charts "inside the box".

It's not the tools that should be deemed inside or outside the box, it's how you use em. i.e. how you trade.

Quoting pip_seeker
The market is big so there's room for everyone.

At the end of the day, week or month all that matters is that your profitable. You have to find your way to make it work.
Yes indeed. If we all thought the same way there would be no market.

One man's "box" is another man's... um... You see where I'm going with this.
  • #325
  • May 27, 2011 7:50am May 27, 2011 7:50am
Quoting pip_seeker
You want to be able to trade like a winner. Doesn't everybody? What makes you think that someone else's system or methology of how they trade could be your own?
at no point have i asked (that i can remember) anyone for their system / method. would i reject a system or method that resonates with me? no, of course not. but what i want is the clarity that eludes most. i don't expect anyone to give this. i purely hope that i someday read something that gives me new food for thought and sparks some ideas in my head that leads me somewhere worthwhile.

it's like baking a cake. you can do it almost right, but still be missing something subtle that unlocks an entirely new level of understanding. if you miss that minor aspect then your cake will suck. nubcake wants to bake some non-nubcakes.

Quote
I have given you examples to make you think. But you would rather get pissed off because you refuse to think about things. Yeah I admit some of the stuff I print is in "FINE CODE".
my decoder ring does not work with your fine code. someone else might get it, but not me. not now. maybe not ever. that's what makes this game even harder. perspective and implicit knowledge.

Quote
The ones that get it will get it the others that don't will get pissed off by it. In the end it's just another forum board discussion. The fact of the matter is if I gave you how I trade it's unlikely you would gain from it because you are not me.
exactly.

Quote
Nubcake, if you have to start over don't be afraid to do so. I've done it at least a thousand times. That is start over from scratch. What I said wasn't meant to piss you off, it was to get you to think.

I'm sure you've gotten handouts and freebies before and where did that get you? You have to do a little bit of self discovery to get there.

starting over is easy to say, but not easy to do. i write with my right hand. i could learn to write with my left hand, but by habit i would tend to resort to the right hand. plus, seeing no benefit from using the left hand makes it unfavorable anyway. what you might be suggesting is that i learn to write with my feet, yet this idea is not something that would occur to me.

i'm not the creative type, or at least i don't consider myself to be. i'm more of a learning, understanding, and mastering type. i can learn concepts and then effectively teach them to others, but i'm not the type of person who will ever create a new concept or theorem. i won't ever create the next mona lisa or statue of david. :nerd:

i'm not looking for handouts per se. i'm looking for a new thought, perspective, or idea that allows me to pick the locks that shackle my mind. hence, suggesting to "think in 3d" as you put it is exactly what I WANT to do but do not know HOW to do.

maybe you see the problem that i have, and perhaps pipalicious also. when you run out of ideas you are stuck. there are plenty of systems and methods, but most are simply unsuitable or flawed and do not resonate at all.

anyway, nuf said. there are a few new members that might spark some ideas that get me somewhere new. time will tell
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #326
  • May 27, 2011 9:53am May 27, 2011 9:53am
I just bought some fear and I'm gonna sell some hope




This thread has not really taught me anything... but it usually sends me looking in the right places.. I like getting smarter and not being a dummy following the blind
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  • #327
  • May 27, 2011 10:13am May 27, 2011 10:13am
Quoting nubcake
at no point have i asked (that i can remember) anyone for their system / method. would i reject a system or method that resonates with me? no, of course not. but what i want is the clarity that eludes most. i don't expect anyone to give this. i purely hope that i someday read something that gives me new food for thought and sparks some ideas in my head that leads me somewhere worthwhile.

it's like baking a cake. you can do it almost right, but still be missing something subtle that unlocks an entirely new level of understanding. if you miss that...
You need to be careful sandboxing perfectly good and tradable methods whilst looking for the elusive one that just happens to flick your switch at any given moment. It may never happen and that would be a crying shame.
  • #328
  • May 27, 2011 10:17am May 27, 2011 10:17am
now I sold hope... (idk if its clear in the picture but the red horizontal line is where i'm getting stopped out)


now I think investors and traders are trying to figure out what to do.. so I could just wait for them to figure it out..

but I think I'll call it a day.. going to weed my GF's vegetable garden soon... LAMMEEEE



I just posted this trade because I wanted to show that since I started this thread almost all of you guys have helped push me in the right direction of what I should learn and such.. (directly or indirectly.. doesn't matter its all been helpful)

so thanks to everyone who has guided me (especially the ones who supported my ideas even when most said I was an idiot for questioning why trend lines work and shit.. ROFL "don't question why trend lines work.. just put your faith in them" haha ok.. )


PS: I still have a lot of learning to do.. but I feel much happier and less lost then ever and the same is true for every day that passes
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  • #329
  • May 27, 2011 10:29am May 27, 2011 10:29am
Quoting jag1966
You need to be careful sandboxing perfectly good and tradable methods whilst looking for the elusive one that just happens to flick your switch at any given moment. It may never happen and that would be a crying shame.
of course. but if it doesn't resonate with me then i'll never use it. that'd be trading on faith or hope. hoping it continues to hold profit and trusting that whoever mentioned the method knew what they were talking about. that's completely against what i want. if i wanted to trade on faith i'd just stop using stoplosses and average-down like ft'si minions and feel good about myself for waging some imagined battle while making pennies and risking an entire account

your recent post was the one of only a few posts on the factory lately i have seen that actually had semblance of sense and reason and had a 'why' factor. thx for that btw.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #330
  • May 27, 2011 10:34am May 27, 2011 10:34am
Quoting newyear498
now I sold hope... (idk if its clear in the picture but the red horizontal line is where i'm getting stopped out)


now I think investors and traders are trying to figure out what to do.. so I could just wait for them to figure it out..

but I think I'll call it a day.. going to weed my GF's vegetable garden soon... LAMMEEEE



I just posted this trade because I wanted to show that since I started this thread almost all of you guys have helped push me in the right direction of what I should learn and such.. (directly or indirectly.. doesn't matter...
you certainly pissed a lot of people off. rightly so. you'd do well in the fibo threads for sure.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #331
  • May 27, 2011 10:40am May 27, 2011 10:40am
Quoting nubcake
you certainly pissed a lot of people off. rightly so. you'd do well in the fibo threads for sure.
OMFG.. dont get me started on fibo's LOL

nahh I like having my charts nice and clean


and I think my new cleaver motto is what I said earlier in that trade.. "Buy Fear Sell Hope" it sounds so sexy especially when your looking at sexy naked curvy charts
  • #332
  • May 27, 2011 11:05am May 27, 2011 11:05am
Why are they scared and why are they hopeful?

http://files.sharenator.com/We_need_...120047-535.jpg
Cautiously optimistic. . .
  • #333
  • May 27, 2011 11:10am May 27, 2011 11:10am
Quoting nubcake
of course. but if it doesn't resonate with me then i'll never use it. that'd be trading on faith or hope. hoping it continues to hold profit and trusting that whoever mentioned the method knew what they were talking about. that's completely against what i want. if i wanted to trade on faith i'd just stop using stoplosses and average-down like ft'si minions and feel good about myself for waging some imagined battle while making pennies and risking an entire account

your recent post was the one of only a few posts on the factory lately...
No probs Nub , just try to stay positive.

Remember, all that is happening is the big money players are constantly looking for liquidity, hunting stops and trying to bring in orders in the wrong direction and then reverse, it is as simple as that. Whatever way you choose to trade it will work.

Work out a way to see what way they intend to go once they have accumulated their discounted orders and done the maximum damage they can then play them at their own games.

A range or sideways consolidation is them building into their positions IMHO. I love ranges

Regards
  • #334
  • May 27, 2011 11:11am May 27, 2011 11:11am
http://www.traderplanet.com/newslett...istribution:16
CCI decipherer
  • #335
  • May 27, 2011 11:13am May 27, 2011 11:13am
I'm currently trying to perceive as much as information as possible regarding this live table ; http://www.i-knowindices.com/saxo_bank.htm without any charts.

A trader that knows the significance of the pair's net gain,correlation and its behaviour @ the highs and lows + the behaviour of the big players = high quality insights (just from that table)


Is that out of the box enough?
  • #336
  • May 27, 2011 11:14am May 27, 2011 11:14am
Quoting jag1966
A range or sideways consolidation is them building into their positions.


Im sure theres a popular word they use for this hehe
  • #337
  • Edited 11:33am May 27, 2011 11:18am | Edited 11:33am
Quoting Pipalicious


Im sure theres a popular word they use for this hehe
Haha I can think of a few, one thing I do know though, I LOVE RANGES now.

Actually what I should say is that ranges aren't ranges at all they are pip making machines. LOL
  • #338
  • May 27, 2011 12:37pm May 27, 2011 12:37pm
Quoting Tact1cal
Why are they scared and why are they hopeful?

http://files.sharenator.com/We_need_...120047-535.jpg
Same reason I suppose we all would be.. when a position does not move in our favor.


but then again there could be variations etc.. hoping there getting out at right time.. fear they might not get out in time etc. etc..
  • #339
  • May 27, 2011 12:44pm May 27, 2011 12:44pm
Anyone want to circle where fear and hope are (not all over the chart but regarding my trade)

I think we can all learn a little something if everyone takes part.. will see some human psychology at work in this thread


PS: Don't let others post influence where you circle etc.. just be honest.. I'll post where I originally saw it as well



HERE USE THIS CHART/IMAGE
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  • #340
  • May 27, 2011 12:46pm May 27, 2011 12:46pm
Quoting newyear498
Anyone want to circle where fear and hope are (not all over the chart but regarding my trade)

I think we can learn a little something if everyone takes part.. will see some human psychology at work in this thread


PS: Don't let others post influence where you circle etc.. just be honest.. I'll post where I originally saw it as well
your trade was a trendline bounce... traders take profit or cover shorts, trend traders go long, not much else moving it right now... open up a 1hr chart and see for yourself.
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