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Why so occult?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 6:55am May 26, 2011 2:47am | Edited 6:55am
Why there's no information on how professional, institutional traders trade? Why there are no stories from inside? About how this whole trading world looks and works behind institutional walls.

You can find a lot of inside information regarding other professions - how they work, what they do. You can find many private stories from those professionals. There is this insight into their world.

But in Forex? Big no. At least, I couldn't find anything. It's like this whole professional/institutional trading don't exist. We all know some rumors, tales, someone who knows someone who heard something. Some vague historic figures. But no hard, real life stories and information.

They are not allowed to talk? Leave their office boxes? Share any kind of information? Write diaries? Blogs? Books?

All those so called Forex experts I've met, were pure bullshiters, able to only repeat what others alike them had said before.

Where are the real ones?

Edit:
And remember that I'm talking about active traders who trade with their own institution's money or from managed accounts etc. Not about brokers and dealers and other men-in-the-middle who just passing calls, and executing trades on behalf of someone else (meaning - someone calls them saying 'sell here or buy there').
  • #2
  • May 26, 2011 2:51am May 26, 2011 2:51am
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Why there's no information on how professional, institutional traders trade? Why there are no stories from inside? About how this whole trading world looks and works behind institutional walls.

You can find a lot of inside information regarding other professions - how they work, what they do. You can find many private stories from those professionals. There is this insight into their world.

But in Forex? Big no. At least, I couldn't find anything. It's like this whole professional/institutional trading don't exist. We all know some rumors,...
I suggest you to read the FTI's forum ' Technical Analysis Fallacy ' .....especially the capital structure.
  • #3
  • May 26, 2011 3:29am May 26, 2011 3:29am
hm...interesting fact, maybe it's just so simple, that if anybody realizing it will instantly causing a sudden chaos in the markets. It may be as simple as "put a random entry, and you will be profitable every time", maybe just like that I guess )
  • #4
  • May 26, 2011 4:26am May 26, 2011 4:26am
Quoting cuthbert
I suggest you to read the FTI's forum ' Technical Analysis Fallacy ' .....especially the capital structure.
I second this, seems to be exactly what you're looking for
  • #5
  • May 26, 2011 5:25am May 26, 2011 5:25am
Quoting neuron
I second this, seems to be exactly what you're looking for
third it... nail, head!
  • #6
  • May 26, 2011 7:15am May 26, 2011 7:15am
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Why there's no information on how professional, institutional traders trade? Why there are no stories from inside?
Maybe the information is before our eyes but we pass over it because we are looking for something else? Expectation shapes perception.
  • #7
  • May 27, 2011 1:46am May 27, 2011 1:46am
Quoting cuthbert
I suggest you to read the FTI's forum ' Technical Analysis Fallacy ' .....especially the capital structure.
Well, while it's pretty interesting thread (at least at the beginning, then it changes into some mix of standard rumbling, daytrading, trader diary - all that happen to most of the threds - they are getting diluted after 2-3 pages), there's no answer to my question inside.

That thread gives some links to pdf's about forex, but there's only a discription of borkers/dealers inside work - they receive call or order, then make some other call, then checking, then papers, bla bla bla.....

Do those financial institutions really trade on their own? Do they really have real traders who trade for them? Like us trading for ourselves?
  • #8
  • May 27, 2011 2:53am May 27, 2011 2:53am
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Well, while it's pretty interesting thread (at least at the beginning, then it changes into some mix of standard rumbling, daytrading, trader diary - all that happen to most of the threds - they are getting diluted after 2-3 pages), there's no answer to my question inside.

That thread gives some links to pdf's about forex, but there's only a discription of borkers/dealers inside work - they receive call or order, then make some other call, then checking, then papers, bla bla bla.....

Do those financial institutions really trade on their own?...
............
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  • #9
  • May 27, 2011 4:53am May 27, 2011 4:53am
Quoting Umverteiler
............
Well, this picture can show just middle-men employees - brokers, dealers, executing orders from real traders.
  • #10
  • May 27, 2011 5:17am May 27, 2011 5:17am
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Well, while it's pretty interesting thread (at least at the beginning, then it changes into some mix of standard rumbling, daytrading, trader diary - all that happen to most of the threds - they are getting diluted after 2-3 pages), there's no answer to my question inside.

That thread gives some links to pdf's about forex, but there's only a discription of borkers/dealers inside work - they receive call or order, then make some other call, then checking, then papers, bla bla bla.....

Do those financial institutions really trade on their own?...
As a regular on fti's thread, I am sure you did not read the thread for the information you are seeking. There, you will find significant information on market structure and operations, from his perspective as the manager of a tier 1 bank's forex operations. It's there, you just have to dig for it.
  • #11
  • May 27, 2011 1:10pm May 27, 2011 1:10pm
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Well, this picture can show just middle-men employees - brokers, dealers, executing orders from real traders.
That picture shows all of the above-- salesmen, operations, IT, upper management, "real traders", etc. It's one of the largest trading floors (if not the largest?) in the world, I believe.

http://advancedtrading.com/photos/tr...l?galleryID=20

I think what you are interested in is propietary trading-- that is, trading your own or your firm's money strictly for speculative profit (as opposed to filling customer's orders, etc.). Most major banks have prop trading desks, although recently I believe some have been trying to distance themselves from that image and are spinning off their prop desks.
  • #12
  • May 27, 2011 1:17pm May 27, 2011 1:17pm
Takes two seconds to find jobs like this...

A top tier investment bank is looking to recruit a highly talented FX prop trader to join their desk in London. The candidate will have experience trading spot FX across G10 currencies, and will have strong product knowledge of all associated foreign exchange products.
Key Responsibilities –
• Trading cash FX across G10 currencies.
• Focusing on spot FX, although experience in trading swaps would be beneficial.
• Actively involved in building a new revenue streams.
• Liaising between sales & products teams.
Skills / Attributes required –
• Strong experience and proven track record in a similar role.
• An excellent understanding of all associated foreign exchange products.
• Bi-lingual would be beneficial.
• Role based in London.

This opportunity is well suited for a talented FX prop trader looking for career development to join a strong platform where they can use the strong infrastructure already in place to generate high revenues.
  • #13
  • May 27, 2011 2:30pm May 27, 2011 2:30pm
I think you bring a very valid question Lawrence.


Indeed, professional trading is one of the most ambiguous professions out there. Although I am pretty sure just by acquiring that knowledge will not change much in our current trading, its still good to know. Reason being is that the secret in trading is that there is no secret, I'm sure this is shared in the professional arena,as they themselves are faced with great uncertainty (only difference is they posses specialised knowledge + resources).
  • #14
  • May 27, 2011 2:55pm May 27, 2011 2:55pm
Quoting fluiDynamic
I think you bring a very valid question Lawrence.


Indeed, professional trading is one of the most ambiguous professions out there. Although I am pretty sure just by acquiring that knowledge will not change much in our current trading, its still good to know. Reason being is that the secret in trading is that there is no secret, I'm sure this is shared in the professional arena,as they themselves are faced with great uncertainty (only difference is they posses specialised knowledge + resources).
they also have training that can match that of a pro athlete! I've met a FX prop trader for a big bank once and he told me a little about his life. he does the same stuff we do on here. He is just better trained and has the resources to bully the market a little here and there to get himself out of serious trouble. did a lot like FTI talks about also.
A woman drove me to drink, and I forgot to thank her
  • #15
  • May 30, 2011 2:04am May 30, 2011 2:04am
Quoting smittens4212

I think what you are interested in is propietary trading-- that is, trading your own or your firm's money strictly for speculative profit (as opposed to filling customer's orders, etc.). Most major banks have prop trading desks, although recently I believe some have been trying to distance themselves from that image and are spinning off their prop desks.
This is exactly what I'm looking for.
  • #16
  • May 30, 2011 2:13am May 30, 2011 2:13am
Quoting fluiDynamic
I think you bring a very valid question Lawrence.


Indeed, professional trading is one of the most ambiguous professions out there. Although I am pretty sure just by acquiring that knowledge will not change much in our current trading, its still good to know. Reason being is that the secret in trading is that there is no secret, I'm sure this is shared in the professional arena,as they themselves are faced with great uncertainty (only difference is they posses specialised knowledge + resources).
I need this info to know what really are those institutions (Market Movers) doing. Are they just speculating? Or maybe function in other way.

These mechanics would really clear the whole picture. I'd like to know their behaviour - to understand what really causes changes in price action. Speculation? Internal strategies? Obligations?

Why they open their trades? Because they just want to? Because someone told them to do so? Because they need to?

We are living in Forex land, and we must understand behaviour and modus operandi of those other big animals.
  • #17
  • May 30, 2011 2:16am May 30, 2011 2:16am
Quoting smittens4212
Takes two seconds to find jobs like this...

A top tier investment bank is looking to recruit a highly talented FX prop trader to join their desk in London. The candidate will have experience trading spot FX across G10 currencies, and will have strong product knowledge of all associated foreign exchange products.
Key Responsibilities –
• Trading cash FX across G10 currencies.
• Focusing on spot FX, although experience in trading swaps would be beneficial.
• Actively involved in building a new revenue streams.
• Liaising between sales & products...
Care to provide the link?
  • #18
  • May 30, 2011 8:29am May 30, 2011 8:29am
Since the volume on LIFFE went to the screens and the ICE purchased the IPE alot of the chances to really understand trading and how the banks are working has ended.

Getting a job on the inside is what you should do if you are really that interested.
  • #19
  • May 31, 2011 1:15pm May 31, 2011 1:15pm
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
Care to provide the link?
Don't have that specific link anymore, but searching for "FX prop trading jobs" will find you a bunch of hits. Here's another you can find just doing a random search.

http://webconnect.sendouts.com/CN_Fr...&ApplyNewCan=0

Quote
Prop Trader: New York
Growing international Prop Trading team at major institution has additional opportunity in New York. Strong collaborative environment for seasoned risk taker in Macro FX, Rates and Emerging Markets. Candidate should have track record of at least 5 years in prop trading in these asset classes at asset managers or major financial institutions. Please provide detailed, multi-year track record of your prop trading activity, along with a current resume to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • #20
  • Jun 3, 2011 9:53am Jun 3, 2011 9:53am
Quoting T.E.Lawrence
I need this info to know what really are those institutions (Market Movers) doing. Are they just speculating? Or maybe function in other way.

These mechanics would really clear the whole picture. I'd like to know their behaviour - to understand what really causes changes in price action. Speculation? Internal strategies? Obligations?

Why they open their trades? Because they just want to? Because someone told them to do so? Because they need to?

We are living in Forex land, and we must understand behaviour and modus operandi of those other...
From what the guy I talked to told me here is the answers to why they trade. Depends on department. They have people who trade just trying to fill large orders at good prices by buying smaller chunks at lower prices. By them feeding them the demand and suddenly pulling it away it creates a price vaccum for price to fall back through and they can then buy more of the product at a lower price

He was in a department of pure speculating of price moves and worked off of daily and 1hr charts to find pricing points. So they traded as they found trades available to them in the market according to all the information they have.

He has analysts watching the market, evaluating order flow, and all kinds of stuff like that. he said it was great cause he had these super smart guys that knew the market inside and out from a academic stand point feeding him information. He admitted he doesn't know where a lot of the information comes from or how they get it just that he gets it to trade off of. So my take on it, he is being told what they think the market is going to do and then he finds why to get in the market like they are talking about and manage the risk from there.

I hope this guy comes into the bar i work at again. buying this guy about $30 of booze was some of the best money I've ever spent!
A woman drove me to drink, and I forgot to thank her
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