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  • #221
  • Edited 4:19am May 4, 2011 4:14am | Edited 4:19am
Quoting Custos
Well, then there is no point in discussing this. This argument will go on and on and on without an end-result.

As long as no real account is being seen which can actually get the kinds of returns consistently, which you guys are talking about, it is just pure faith or belief that it is possible. But not at all a certainty or even likely event.

I go with science. As long as it's not proven, it doesn't exist.
but those who have proven it to themselves, their bank account, and their accountant have nothing to prove to anyone else at that stage in their success. for any 1 person that claims to have evidence of gnarly ROI are always 10 people who have reasons to dispute whatever evidence presented. it's an unrewarding endeavour to prove to people who can't do it that it can be done. denial is powerful.

sure there will be dreamers like me, and scammers like scammo jacko. but i've never been to the moon, or around this world to know it is not flat, or seen the dead body of bin laden, yet i still have reason to believe all of these to be true. i don't need to sail around the world to know that it can be done. implicit understanding of what can and what can't be achieved provides enough of a foundation to see the potential.

i don't know how you resolve the documented efforts, abilities, and returns of one mr jesse livermore. from nickel and diming bucket shops to generate a decent bankroll to then moving onto pushing much larger volume in real markets... what's up with that? i honestly don't know how people who say it can't be done resolve this within themselves.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #222
  • May 4, 2011 4:28am May 4, 2011 4:28am
Quoting Spacetec
I am looking to start trading this plan ,hopefully soon with a live account,but need some feedback if I can improve it

basically it works with a strategy that would gives you a consistant minimum win/loss ratio of 60/40 ...

Each minimum of 3 trades taken or 60 trades per month ,Risk for each trade is 1.5% of Account $1000 a/c = 1.5% = $15 per trade risk ...
In my opinion this is not a plan. This is MM + RR speculations. What you actually need is to find a system which gives you precision entries.

1:1 risk/reward is not good enough. You need to look for entries with 10:1, 20:1 or bigger reward/risk. But that's only my opinion. Others will disagree

How did you came up with 1.5% risk per trade? In my opinion 3% or 5% is better, because it forces one to take only the best entries.
  • #223
  • May 4, 2011 4:37am May 4, 2011 4:37am
Quoting Custos
I go with science. As long as it's not proven, it doesn't exist.
I'm afraid scientifically this thing is not provable. Otherwise we (humans) would not have a chance against computers (robot a.k.a. automatic trading). To get extraordinary results we need 80% intuition (discretion) and 20% system. Without gut feeling the results will be good (like 5% per month), but not extraordinary (like 20% or more per month). But it is again just my personal opinion.. no insult.
  • #224
  • May 4, 2011 4:37am May 4, 2011 4:37am
Quoting nubcake
but those who have proven it to themselves, their bank account, and their accountant have nothing to prove to anyone else at that stage in their success. for any 1 person that claims to have evidence of gnarly ROI are always 10 people who have reasons to dispute whatever evidence presented. it's an unrewarding endeavour to prove to people who can't do it that it can be done. denial is powerful.
But that's exactly how we advance in this world. Through one person proving something and then discussion and denying and reproving and so on.

Thousands of years mankind didn't question what religion told them to believe, with the result of no advancement. Once people started to scientifically analyze things by proving, disproving, denying and analyzing, they advanced.

I am still a believer of science, if there is no proof, then there is in the first place nothing to discuss. No proof, no existence. As easy as that.
  • #225
  • May 4, 2011 4:39am May 4, 2011 4:39am
Quoting fiftylots
I'm afraid scientifically this thing is not provable. Otherwise we (humans) would not have a chance against computers (robot a.k.a. automatic trading). To get extraordinary results we need 80% intuition (discretion) and 20% system. Without gut feeling the results will be good (like 5% per month), but not extraordinary (like 20% or more per month). But it is again just my personal opinion.. no insult.
It is very easy to prove. Somebody can set up their live account on myfxbook or similar websites and show their account growth over a prolonged period of time. Not sure why you think that can't be used as a proof.
  • #226
  • May 4, 2011 4:52am May 4, 2011 4:52am
Quoting Custos
It is very easy to prove. Somebody can set up their live account on myfxbook or similar websites and show their account growth over a prolonged period of time. Not sure why you think that can't be used as a proof.
as soon as that happens everyone says "myfxbook can be faked". wasted effort.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #227
  • May 4, 2011 4:57am May 4, 2011 4:57am
Quoting nubcake
as soon as that happens everyone says "myfxbook can be faked". wasted effort.
Is it possible to fake Myfxbook page?
  • #228
  • May 4, 2011 5:08am May 4, 2011 5:08am
Quoting nubcake
as soon as that happens everyone says "myfxbook can be faked". wasted effort.
Not necessarily. The main reason I think is that people do not want to share their edge. And by posting a statement of a profitable live account, one could "reverse engineer" the system.

Look at the chart attached to this post. It's a M15 EURUSD chart. I've marked some bars on the chart. These are all small tiny green bars. I call them "nice bars". The bar (2) is the one I used as a signal to go long. The height of the bar is ~5 pips. Therefore a tight stop and unlimited profits. Also notice how bar (3) acted as support today.

Try this one setup for some time. Cut the losses, let the winners runs and you'll see the results.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #229
  • May 4, 2011 5:09am May 4, 2011 5:09am
Quoting josef
Is it possible to fake Myfxbook page?
is that a real question? why do i sometimes feel like i'm only punishing myself by being here?

seriously... http://www.google.com.au/search?q=fake+myfxbook
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #230
  • May 4, 2011 5:10am May 4, 2011 5:10am
Quoting fiftylots
Not necessarily. The main reason I think is that people do not want to share their edge. And by posting a statement of a profitable live account, one could "reverse engineer" the system.

Look at the chart attached to this post. It's a M15 EURUSD chart. I've marked some bars on the chart. These are all small tiny green bars. I call them "nice bars". The bar (2) is the one I used as a signal to go long. The height of the bar is ~5 pips. Therefore a tight stop and unlimited profits. Also notice how bar (3) acted as support today.

Try this one...
huh? what? i'm not sure exactly what you are trying to tell me.

i think, perhaps, you are preaching to the choir
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #231
  • May 4, 2011 5:14am May 4, 2011 5:14am
Quoting ptownboi
I read outlandish reports that traders are making 1000% plus return on their portfolio.

I trade live and manage (somehow) a weekly return of around 10 percent (sometimes even 15%) on my equity.

Of course some weeks I don't spot a trade and sit the whole week without turning a dime, but that is rare.

It's like pulling teeth to get that, even. Just curious how successful other live (real, actual!) traders average. I'm happy with my return rate, but maybe I'm missing something.
I trade the same way. I target 10% each week. I know the $ goal for the week, and I trade with that in mind. That may make me too cautious in my trades, but it works for me. I really try not to overtrade. I look for what I think is a high probability trade, but you never know into you are in the trade. I move my SL as the price moves in my favor. So far this week I have had 3 trades for a 10.28% gain for the week. Tomorrow the ECB and BOE announce their rate decisions. I will be very cautious for the remainder of the week.
  • #232
  • May 4, 2011 5:28am May 4, 2011 5:28am
Quoting josef
Is it possible to fake Myfxbook page?
Yes.
  • #233
  • May 4, 2011 5:34am May 4, 2011 5:34am
Quoting nubcake
huh? what? i'm not sure exactly what you are trying to tell me.

i think, perhaps, you are preaching to the choir
Ooops! My mistake. I wanted to comment on this statement:

Quoting Custos
It is very easy to prove. Somebody can set up their live account on myfxbook or similar websites and show their account growth over a prolonged period of time. Not sure why you think that can't be used as a proof.
  • #234
  • May 4, 2011 5:46am May 4, 2011 5:46am
Hi, I think you must be persistant and trade each day. My aim is 100 pips per day. most days I manage to make it; but sometimes it is less or more, so long as at the end of each week it is 500 pips I am happy.
Cheers

Quoting ptownboi
I read outlandish reports that traders are making 1000% plus return on their portfolio.

I trade live and manage (somehow) a weekly return of around 10 percent (sometimes even 15%) on my equity.

Of course some weeks I don't spot a trade and sit the whole week without turning a dime, but that is rare.

It's like pulling teeth to get that, even. Just curious how successful other live (real, actual!) traders average. I'm happy with my return rate, but maybe I'm missing something.
  • #235
  • May 4, 2011 5:48am May 4, 2011 5:48am
Quoting fiftylots
In my opinion this is not a plan. This is MM + RR speculations. What you actually need is to find a system which gives you precision entries.

1:1 risk/reward is not good enough. You need to look for entries with 10:1, 20:1 or bigger reward/risk. But that's only my opinion. Others will disagree

How did you came up with 1.5% risk per trade? In my opinion 3% or 5% is better, because it forces one to take only the best entries.
I agree with you this is just MM based on long term return/growth not for living off or as a daily income
no such systems can give you consistant profits as we know ,so we need funds available for drawdowns if you incure a bad trading month etc,
this plan works on strict 1:1 profit ratios that takes into acount when registering profit/loss minimum 60/40% , if your strategy or trading style can win 6 trades out of 10 with just 1:1 ratio then you have won say $30 using 1.5% per trade on acount size of $1000

for example this plan requires 60 trades per month or 3 trades per day its not impossible
say on your first month you had a good run and acheived minimum target based on 60/40% win/loss
36 win trades = $540 @60%
24 loss trades= $360 @ 40%
profit = $180

now from 36 win trades you will have more then just 1:1 minmum R/R required ,say for example your average win was 1.5:1 thats $22.5 per trade x 36 = $810 - $360 = $450
target required only $180 for first month so $450 -$180= $270
now on your trading plan you do not register $450 as a profit you only stick with $180 when calculating your next months balance which would be $1180
$270 are left for future drawdowns only and slippage etc

my next month trading plan would be 1.5% risk per trade from $1180 and so on,and my new target would be $212 for that month, this way I have enough drawdown facility if things go wrong with this very conservative MM plan
I based 1.5% just because its a small acount of $1000 just on the safe side

this can be done depanding on your trading ability here's my demo account just based on $1000 investment and margins used less then $350 per any open position for trading month its just my trading style ,but have found here few strategies like 7pips stoploss from mr niceguy here on FF works well with this plan

hope it makes any sense lol
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #236
  • May 4, 2011 6:54am May 4, 2011 6:54am
Quoting Spacetec
I am looking to start trading this plan ,hopefully soon with a live account,but need some feedback if I can improve it...
Nice plan, but what do you need the bonus for if you can win 6/10 consistently? I get it - your being conservative just in case in case you fail however, If you cant get 6/10 consistently the plan is worthless anyway. There wont be any bonus money.
If I was confident I could get that win/loss ratio with a larger average win, I would scrap the bonus idea, register all my profits and compound daily, not monthly. Compounding is where its at in my experience.
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #237
  • May 4, 2011 7:30am May 4, 2011 7:30am
Quoting Meg
Hi, I think you must be persistant and trade each day. My aim is 100 pips per day. most days I manage to make it; but sometimes it is less or more, so long as at the end of each week it is 500 pips I am happy.
Cheers
I want to disagree. Trying to be persistent and aim for 100 pips each day is the biggest mistake one could make. Better aim to lose 20 pips each day. Say, enter 2 setups with 10 pips SL each then close the terminal and come back next day or a week later. You will be surprised by the results
  • #238
  • May 4, 2011 7:34am May 4, 2011 7:34am
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
Nice plan, but what do you need the bonus for if you can win 6/10 consistently? I get it - your being conservative just in case in case you fail however, If you cant get 6/10 consistently the plan is worthless anyway. There wont be any bonus money.
If I was confident I could get that win/loss ratio with a larger average win, I would scrap the bonus idea, register all my profits and compound daily, not monthly. Compounding is where its at in my experience.
yes your right ,but bonus is in place purely for drawdowns just for the very reason that you have 2 or 3 bad months over the year , thts the reason why compounding daily profits wont be a good idea and would put you in higher risk ,trade seclection is the key here although plan only requires you to acheive 1:1 rr if I was to trade this plan then I would only select 3:1 rr potencial trades and you can do this on all time frames targeting just 3 trades a day if possible this way even if you loss 7 trades out of 10 trade cycle you will still come out profitable and if you find yourself having more then often bad months then you need to look at your trading style or strategy or youe weakness simples , if you look at over long period of 40-45 months of trading this where you will end up , and lets face it $1000 is not lot of money to try this out ,trade demo for few months and see if you get your monthly targets
  • #239
  • May 4, 2011 7:47am May 4, 2011 7:47am
Quoting fiftylots
I want to disagree. Trying to be persistent and aim for 100 pips each day is the biggest mistake one could make. Better aim to lose 20 pips each day. Say, enter 2 setups with 10 pips SL each then close the terminal and come back next day or a week later. You will be surprised by the results
^^^^^

Truth.
  • #240
  • May 4, 2011 10:03am May 4, 2011 10:03am
Oh boy!!!

Just stop and think for one minute guys. How many times Geoge Soros broke the bank of England?

Most of the successful and famous traders out there made the biggest chunk of their money quick and than managed to keep their money or increase it slowly.

Why this phenomena?

Why Soros cant break some banks every other day?
Why Livermoore died broke?
why Tudor Jones is still not richer than Bill gates?
Why the banks don't trade their way out of their debts?
Why GS has to cheat, manipulate, and inside trade the markets?
Why big institutions rely on HFT to make money?

The questions can go on and on....

What is the point folks? If making 100% per year consistently is so easy why we don't see it all over? Or at least where professional traders work?

I traded for banks for 20 years and 7 to 12% per year was enough to make my boss and clients happy and insure a nice bonus at the end of the year.

Consistency is the key word!! If you double your money today just to lose all tomorrow what is the point?

Most of the famous out there were clever or lucky enough to make most of their money in a few strikes. Than after they got millions or billions they started making less, lost everything, or cheated in order to keep it going. All fortunes of the world will fall in one of those 3 categories.
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