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I don't get how 10 pips a day can make you rich?

  • #41
  • Nov 20, 2010 12:40pm Nov 20, 2010 12:40pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
Because there is a whole thread dedicated on the argument whether pips or percentages is the right way of calculating things. I don't recall anyone who pointed out the same opinion as what you pointed out. I have the same reasoning, but I couldn't be bothered.

Now, this thread is about capturing 10pips. That's why I said it is in the wrong thread, though you were responding back to a previous post. Your comments would have gone a long way in the thread about pips or %
oh right. sounds like something i'd do. in that case... balls

i have a feeling i have seen that thread, or one like it, before. either i couldn't be bothered either, or i just didn't want to upset the establishment and get crucified.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #42
  • Nov 20, 2010 12:45pm Nov 20, 2010 12:45pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
Because there is a whole thread dedicated on the argument whether pips or percentages is the right way of calculating things. I don't recall anyone who pointed out the same opinion as what you pointed out. I have the same reasoning, but I couldn't be bothered.

Now, this thread is about capturing 10pips. That's why I said it is in the wrong thread, though you were responding back to a previous post. Your comments would have gone a long way in the thread about pips or %

Hey CP! Just wanted to say i'm loving your journal so far! I noticed you're kind of a scalper to? One thing I'm having a problem in my trading plan is if I should set a set take profit or let the market go where it wants to take me and just keep moving my stop up? Have a set SL every trade, but then let the TP go until it looks like it's reversing?

You said you will never tell how you trade, but pretty much it only looks like you put on a few trending indicators and then buy/sell the rallies? Would love to hear from you, MASTER!
(What was the biggest turning point in your trading career?"
Happy trading!
  • #43
  • Nov 20, 2010 1:56pm Nov 20, 2010 1:56pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
Hey CP! Just wanted to say i'm loving your journal so far! I noticed you're kind of a scalper to? One thing I'm having a problem in my trading plan is if I should set a set take profit or let the market go where it wants to take me and just keep moving my stop up? Have a set SL every trade, but then let the TP go until it looks like it's reversing?

You said you will never tell how you trade, but pretty much it only looks like you put on a few trending indicators and then buy/sell the rallies? Would love to hear from you, MASTER! ...
The biggest turning point in his career was finding the magic secret formula, but he was told to shut up about that.
  • #44
  • Nov 20, 2010 2:51pm Nov 20, 2010 2:51pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
Hey CP! Just wanted to say i'm loving your journal so far! I noticed you're kind of a scalper to? One thing I'm having a problem in my trading plan is if I should set a set take profit or let the market go where it wants to take me and just keep moving my stop up? Have a set SL every trade, but then let the TP go until it looks like it's reversing?

You said you will never tell how you trade, but pretty much it only looks like you put on a few trending indicators and then buy/sell the rallies? Would love to hear from you, MASTER! ...
Told you it was a good read, no? xD

Read that thing back and forth more times than I can count.

I know he said at the end that he found some formula that he couldn't mention and that pissed some people off but not me. Instead it gave me optimism. Or even hope should I say. Something to aim at, y'know?
What's more he mentions he uses three indicators which is amazing because I've yet to bring myself to pure PA. But don't glaze over the part about understanding indicators inside and out before using them. One of the best pieces of advice I've been given
  • #45
  • Edited 1:02am Nov 23, 2010 12:29am | Edited 1:02am
lots of rough response but they are mostly right, 10 pip targets with a 1 pip spread on lets say the eur/usd. right off the bat nothing else considered that MM puts you at a 45% for success negative edge. where 50% would be 10 pips gained or 10 pips lost starting without a spread. now lets say u have 100 pip tp and 100 pip sl with a 1pip spread, you now have a negative edge 49.5%. strategy can compinsate these negative starts as is used with almost all successful trading today.

i have heard afew say that you can reach a positive edge with MM alone, i have never seen this but im sure somehow its possible. i think it was in domino's thread, the theory anyway, not sure if they ever cracked it.

also note that the TP's are equal to the stoploss's ONLY so i can easily present the
50 > X negative 50 BE 50 < X positive. i updated this last tidbit so people dont come on and say well then a stop of 10 pips and a tp of 20 would then be.... better yet, dont even consider a TP for this, it doesnt effect this at all.

exp 10 pip stop with 10 pip tp 1 pip spread is 45% neg edge
exp 10 pip stop with 5000 pip tp 1 pip spread is still a 45% neg edge

50 divided by sl times spread minus 50 gives you your MM edge
50/10=5 5x1=5 50-5=45 45% neg edge

long story short, understand your mm edge, then find a system that compliments it into profitability

NOTE: THESE EXAMPLES EXPRESS SPECIFICLY NEGATIVE (AND THEORETICALLY POSITIVE) MM ONLY
  • #46
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:05pm Nov 23, 2010 10:05pm
10 pips a day could easily make you very rich. The only problem is the losses always over-come the winners.

I've studied and examined the 10 pip a day systems and could never make them work. The losses always kills any edge you might think you have.

You have to realize the FX market can be very psychological. If you are winning everything is fine and you continue on your merry way.

But if you commit to trading one set-up only a day and no matter your stop level whether it be 30 - 50 - 100 pips or whatever it would be very difficult to continue trading after three losses in a row. [ And there's no guarantee the losses would stop at 3 either.]

Even at the 30 pips stop... 3 losses means 90 pips. That means by your own rules it will take you 9 days just to cover the loss. This is with a 30 pip stop. It gets even worse the further out you place the stop.

How long would you keep trading that from a psychological standpoint?

Emotions make you or break you in this game.
  • #47
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:10pm Nov 23, 2010 10:10pm
Quoting pip_seeker
10 pips a day could easily make you very rich. The only problem is the losses always over-come the winners.

I've studied and examined the 10 pip a day systems and could never make them work. The losses always kills any edge you might think you have.

You have to realize the FX market can be very psychological. If you are winning everything is fine and you continue on your merry way.

But if you commit to trading one set-up only a day and no matter your stop level whether it be 30 - 50 - 100 pips or whatever it would be very difficult to continue...
That is a huge stop My philosophy is the market is random. You have no idea where it's heading so i'm trying to put a strategy together based on that.

Waiting for the hour to look SUPER bearish or Bullish and break a major s/r. When its aproaching a main area get down on the 5 sec chart and get my 2 pip stop moved to b/e as fast as possible. Sure I will get stopped out a lot, but when I do have my winners they will be for 50 pip + does that make sense?

I have a feeling all the responces are going to be that would never work in a million years, we will see
  • #48
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:19pm Nov 23, 2010 10:19pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
That is a huge stop My philosophy is the market is random. You have no idea where it's heading so i'm trying to put a strategy together based on that.

Waiting for the hour to look SUPER bearish or Bullish and break a major s/r. When its aproaching a main area get down on the 5 sec chart and get my 2 pip stop moved to b/e as fast as possible. Sure I will get stopped out a lot, but when I do have my winners they will be for 50 pip + does that make sense?

I have a feeling all the responces are going to be that would never work in a million years,...

yeah I doubt it would work as you describe because brokers typically don't let you place a stop that close to the market. The only way to have a stop that close would be invisible handled by an EA. But slippage would wind up being more than 2 pips.

So nice in theory and on paper but real world account it would never work sorry to say.

As far as the market being random yes about 80-90% of the time it's range. That's what makes it so hard to predict. Even the so called pros rarely get it right even 50% of the time. It's only because their setups for RR are proper to keep them in the game. But anyone can have a bad month and even worse than that if you can imagine.
  • #49
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:30pm Nov 23, 2010 10:30pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
That is a huge stop My philosophy is the market is random. You have no idea where it's heading so i'm trying to put a strategy together based on that.

Waiting for the hour to look SUPER bearish or Bullish and break a major s/r. When its aproaching a main area get down on the 5 sec chart and get my 2 pip stop moved to b/e as fast as possible. Sure I will get stopped out a lot, but when I do have my winners they will be for 50 pip + does that make sense?

I have a feeling all the responces are going to be that would never work in...
I have no idea whether your idea work or not but what make you 'think' it works? Well I am just curious
  • #50
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:26pm Nov 23, 2010 11:26pm
10 pips per day risking 2% is very hard to achieve but not impossible. Let me explain.

Say your account size is 10K. So, 2% of that would be $200

So if you place a trade the maximum lots you can trade is 10 standard lots.
So, (10 * 10 ) * 2 pip = $200

So using the same example if you do catch the 10 pip mark you net profit would be $1000 per day which is not bad. Do this for successfully for the 200 days of the year and u are looking at a potential profit of $200,000(krchin...)

Up to this point everything seems very logical and is easily achievable.

A good system to use to catch this 10 pip movement is using breakout setups after any major announcements. Logically if you do trade breakout system following the news works best and you can easily achieve ur 10 pip and might even book a 50 pip profit.

The problem starts when there is a flash crash. Taking the same example if your stop/loss doesn't get triggered you could be looking at a potential loss of more than 10 pips. Worst case scenario like the flash crash last year you could easily loose 100 pips(happened to one my really close mate using IG markets). So if that happens do lets do the maths and see what happens

So 10 standard lot and 100 pips against you so that equals 10 *10 * 100 = $10,000 net loss. So basically you account gets wiped off if you are not able to meet the margin call. And since you stop/loss is so close u won't have the chance to meet the margin call.

So all in all if you are lucky to avoid these flash crashes you should be able to achieve it no problem.

But my question to you would be why just be happy with 10 pip. My suggestion would be once you achieve your 10 pip target just move ur stop/loss to that level and just trail the trade from that point onwards. And another thing to consider would be instead of doing it every day I would wait for a correction and would personally target a much higher pip target. And always remember the more you are in the market the more chances u have in taking a hit.

Cheers
  • #51
  • Nov 24, 2010 6:30am Nov 24, 2010 6:30am
Waiting for the hour to look SUPER bearish or Bullish and break a major s/r. When its aproaching a main area get down on the 5 sec chart and get my 2 pip stop moved to b/e as fast as possible. Sure I will get stopped out a lot, but when I do have my winners they will be for 50 pip + does that make sense?


Joe You had a look at this thread http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=245149
similar principle. Large thread but thick of the info on first 20 or so pages. Well worth a read. Kill the dying trades and let the good ones breathe.
Good Luck
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #52
  • Apr 15, 2011 3:58am Apr 15, 2011 3:58am
To take 10 pips per day, should be looking for trade at the risk
of them must be 2 to 1.. win 10 pips and lose 5.. Only like that you will be a winner.. Because you can't win all the trades..
  • #53
  • Dec 24, 2011 10:04am Dec 24, 2011 10:04am
Quoting beehivesjoe
Would you guys be satisfied with 10 pips a day (risking 2% per trade) Would this be enough to build your account in the long run to live sucessfully? What do you guys think?

I have a rule 20 pips a day and that is it, i wait for a set up, set your trade mkae some money exist.


Then when my account was FATTY enough I am now doing 50 Pips aday with each pip being 10$.

I knw what I am talking about.

Number one rule of Business,"Protect your Investment"
  • #54
  • Dec 24, 2011 11:48am Dec 24, 2011 11:48am
If you ask me 10 pips a day is total BS , why ? Because any market "fart" can go in the other direction and if you don't use sl , then you need to have high , low reward . I think 10 pips can be generated in the particular trend and spacific pair if you have any system how to do that , other than that it's not worth it ...
  • #55
  • Dec 25, 2011 6:46pm Dec 25, 2011 6:46pm
Here's a recent example of a 10 pips a day strategy.

It's at the Automated Trading Championship

http://championship.mql5.com/2011


and 9th place "sbraer" trades for 10 pips a day.

http://championship.mql5.com/2011/en/users/sbraer


His EA enters a trade at 00:00GMT (Daily direction) and holds for 10 pips or 22 hours.... whichever comes first.
(At least that is my basic understanding of the strategy)

  • #56
  • Nov 15, 2013 8:02am Nov 15, 2013 8:02am
Quoting patmarch
Here's a clue...but keep in mind that I really don't like this kind of trading and that some others guys here could help you better with this "get poor quick" type of trading... account = 1000$ 2% = 20$ risk. 20$ / 2 pips = 10$ a pip. 1 standard lot = 10$ a pip...or 100 000$ of base currency. SO...according to this you would buy 1 std lots of base currency or 100 000 $ Buying 100 000$ with an account of 1000 gives you 100:1 leverage which I think is the maximum allowed in the U.S. Don't forget the spread though...EURUSD usually deals at 2 pips spread...so...

This assume you can only trade Std Lots
DON'T TRADE THE DIRECTION, TRADE THE MOVE
  • #57
  • Nov 16, 2013 1:35pm Nov 16, 2013 1:35pm
10 pips a day does make a good income and I will take such an offer any day.
Think of playing with 100 lots, that's 10k per day income, not too shabby.

Unfortunately there is no such FIXED 10 pip per day system, so you need to have a system you stick to and take whatever pips it gives to you.

If you always exit trades with 10 pip profit, you limit your upside.

And the key to long term forex success is having a limited downside (stop loss) and unlimited upside (ride the profits with trailing stop loss until you get stopped out)

Best of luck
  • #58
  • Jun 20, 2016 2:51pm Jun 20, 2016 2:51pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
Would you guys be satisfied with 10 pips a day (risking 2% per trade) Would this be enough to build your account in the long run to live sucessfully? What do you guys think?
You need to follow this.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=595646
Let it turn and find your entry.
  • #59
  • Jun 20, 2016 5:02pm Jun 20, 2016 5:02pm
Some days i make a couple of hundred pips some days nothing but what ever suits your style is worth a try
  • #60
  • Jun 20, 2016 5:24pm Jun 20, 2016 5:24pm
Quoting beehivesjoe
I love the idea of 2 pip stop, but I don't fully understand how this helps you. Since your using such a small stop that means your pip is worth more on each pip correct? I don't understand how you do this though (I come from stocks) Could you give me an example of how to figure out how to get the biggest pip size with solid money management (2% risk / trade) What's the math to do that? It has completely confused me!! Thanks a lot! Joe
Hi beehivesjoe,

I just came across your question. Excuse me for not reading the whole thread. It may have been answered already. But even if, there may be something new in my attemt to put light into your thought process.

First off. I don't really like the idea of working with a fix 10 Pips profit per day. This assumes all trades are going to be profitable. If that was the case you could put your max leverage on stack and trade that each time you place an order. You'd be filthy rich in no time. Additionally, if that was possible, why not go for more? Make it 11 Pips or 15 Pips a day? Don't get me wrong, I am not a hater. And this is by no means an attemt to diss you.

Now coming to reality. You can make profit and compound by taking 10 Pip trades. It is not easy though. The magic word is compounding here.
I personally don't recommend 2 pips stops as that is already the spread on some brokers. So taking a 2 Pips stop would take you out exactly a 0,1 pip move against your trade. Scalpers do work with stops as low as 6 - 7 Pips maybe even less. This will alow a buffer for losses that you are definetly going to have. No such thing like all trades are going to be green. If you are interested in a scalping strategy where traders take small gains with even smaller stops, you might want to read the thread "The dance". It is very well explained. There is a lot of information. I'd strongly recommend to read the entire thread. There is a ton of useful information and a lot of documents. Very well explained. That type of trading does not suit my trading habits. That's why I stopped that long time ago. But there are good traders that make nice profit. They take trades with stops of about 6-8 Pips. They don't have a fix take profit. But having a 6 Pips stop and 10 Pip profit regularly, you are good to go.

But you have to understand that this math does not allow much tolerance for failure.
This above mentioned thread is in the recycle bin. But a successful follower of that thread created a new thread named "Choros".
Read the original thread first. And than start posting on Choros.

Hope I was able provide some useful information.

Wmn
Never stop to learn
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