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Sixths trading - an EA by macman, Bob and Steve mk 2

  • #1,441
  • Apr 1, 2011 8:06pm Apr 1, 2011 8:06pm
Quoting Pippopotamus
...Randomly open a trade on H1. Any direction. Use Recovery/Hedging to save one's arse. My bet...Recovery/Hedging Vincit Omnia. A trend is intact only up until the last candle. I will now recline and pass out. Good night.
Great idea my friend. Many good experienced traders maintain that EXITS are more important than entries. Please see the profile page of Ronald RAYGUN

Quoting SteveHopwood
Well, there are probably about 1,000 worse systems posited at FF. I am kind-of trying this in my Logical trading. Not quite as random, but close.
The Logical combined with the BEAST!!! How many times we have seen the price moving above the OR (Opening Range) then do a U turn and go below OR and at some point change its mind and do one more U turn. NB Recovery is just the solution for these situations.

Well done gentlemen. I was just dozing off front of the PC (2am in London) and now I am wide awake, craving for a cup of tea.

Kind Regards
  • #1,442
  • Apr 2, 2011 12:17am Apr 2, 2011 12:17am
Quoting Rascacio
Thanks very much Pete. As you say it does get difficult sometimes to keep track of everything. I thought I had, and maybe I have, but I don't want to take any chances with my live account, which by the way is looking HORRIBLE at the moment, with the bloody Yen going tits up !!

I'll just have to hang in there and hope TOB does it's stuff, just like it did a couple of weeks ago.

Cheers
Ras:

Yeah, I have the same problem with the markets this week. No pips, and I have two stuck trades with EURAUD and NZDUSD in my live account. Kiwi filter is protecting me well, but these trades were already in play before the swap filters. Needless to say the swaps are eating my lunch.

Let's hope for some meaningful retracement next week, but I am looking forward to the TOB version with the hedging that could end the extended trades.

Cheers,

Pete
  • #1,443
  • Apr 2, 2011 1:43am Apr 2, 2011 1:43am
Quoting hiredwhip
If you can stand it Steve I'll take a shot at it......Now I have to go to work...Clean-out man just drove in....Long night tonight

whip
Cheers whip.

  • #1,444
  • Apr 2, 2011 1:45am Apr 2, 2011 1:45am
Quoting ForexPete
Ras:

Yeah, I have the same problem with the markets this week. No pips, and I have two stuck trades with EURAUD and NZDUSD in my live account. Kiwi filter is protecting me well, but these trades were already in play before the swap filters. Needless to say the swaps are eating my lunch.

Let's hope for some meaningful retracement next week, but I am looking forward to the TOB version with the hedging that could end the extended trades.

Cheers,

Pete
TOB has always had hedging.

  • #1,445
  • Apr 2, 2011 1:46am Apr 2, 2011 1:46am
Steve:

Last night I installed a fresh platform with the current TOB live version from post#1(same as TOB#1356), and was lucky enough to observe the errors TOB makes with its second trade on a given pair. The first chart shows a USDJPY trade that was initiated correctly, but when price moved back up to the solid magenta line, but did not force it higher, TOB set a re entry line, rather than a sell stop, for the second trade at the same dashed magenta line used to execute the first trade as shown.

The second chart, EURCHF, is even more interesting. In this case price did push the solid magenta line higher and with the small retrace did set a sell stop, but only slightly above the first trade entry price. It also set the re entry line for the first recovery trade before the second trade was triggered.

In both cases there does not seem to be a check to cancel potential sell stop second trades to ensure that these entries are at least 50 pips away from the first trades. My understanding of the way TOB works is that the second trade is initiated like the first; that is, price drives the solid magenta line up in these cases and then initiates a sell stop when price retraces back the dashed magenta line. If there could be a logic check to cancel any potential sell stop that is less than 50 pips from the first trade entry, that should fix this pesky problem.

Re entry line trades are another issue. My understanding of the way TOB handles re entry is to execute the recovery trade when price hits the re entry line. If this is correct, a better solution might be to handle re entry recovery trades like the first two; that is, let re entry lines identify a "line in the sand" for the recovery trade, but this re entry trade would be executed only after price drives the solid magenta line past re entry line and the dashed magenta line up to at least the re entry line. Then, if price retraces back to the dashed magenta line that is either above, or at least at the same price point as re entry, TOB would only then execute the recovery trade. So, if price takes off, keeps climbing and does not retrace back to the dashed magenta line, as many pairs did this week, recovery trades would be strung out further apart and raise break even points much higher than they would be. So, that should make recovery to break even easier and would enable TOB to adapt to the extreme volatility changes that we experienced this week and can occur at any time.

A lot of words here, but I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Pete
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: TOB_1356 USDJPY Re entry Issue.png Size: 102 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: TOB_1356 EURCHF A Re entry & 2nd Trade Issue.png Size: 99 KB
  • #1,446
  • Apr 2, 2011 2:13am Apr 2, 2011 2:13am
Quoting ForexPete
Steve:

Last night I installed a fresh platform with the current TOB live version from post#1(same as TOB#1356), and was lucky enough to observe the errors TOB makes with its second trade on a given pair....
Notice how ReEntryLinePips is zero in your first picture? I wonder if it was the same on your second chart. It should not be possible for relp to equal zero, so I will look into this.

Quote
In both cases there does not seem to be a check to cancel potential sell stop second trades to ensure that these entries are at least 50 pips away from the first trades....
Probably linked to the previous issue.

Quote
Re entry line trades are another issue. My understanding of the way TOB handles re entry is to execute the recovery trade when price hits the re entry line.
This is about as wrong as you can get. TOB operates Nanningbob recovery, not firing off recovery trades at so pre-set point.

  • #1,447
  • Apr 2, 2011 2:20am Apr 2, 2011 2:20am
Pete, what is your MinPipsFromLastEntry input?

  • #1,448
  • Apr 2, 2011 2:53am Apr 2, 2011 2:53am
Quoting hiredwhip
If you can stand it Steve I'll take a shot at it......Now I have to go to work...Clean-out man just drove in....Long night tonight

whip
whip

If you are not up to it, I can also take a stab at the manual. Just let me know.
  • #1,449
  • Edited 3:31am Apr 2, 2011 2:53am | Edited 3:31am
Whip,et.al:

Look at this logic. Another approach:There is no reason that we cannot use MPTM and Recovery together. Presuming that MPTM will hedge each separate trade when it reaches, say, 100 pips, it could be set to cancel out the increase in risk by using a 150% ( 1.5 X) multiplier. Then Hedge the Hedge at 200% (2 X) multiplier, on the way back (?down). It would essentially cancel out much of the drawdown, but kick out the hedge on the road back. Then recovery could proceed normally at much, much less risk. Is there any reason this will not work, using the two systems together? (using the three trend filters)
Glenn
  • #1,450
  • Apr 2, 2011 3:50am Apr 2, 2011 3:50am
Quoting Bl888
Steve

I was sitting in the Wharf having a bud today when a lightbulb lit above me.

We all know the following about TOB:

a) TOB is a great piece of art in both execution and recovery
b) As Macman mentioned there is no such thing as a set and forget bot
c) As Scooby mentioned you must apply correct trade size based on your account size and the number of pairs you are going to trade.

So heres a thought i had....
I see you lurking around Bob, so here it is.

Look for the "----Manual control of outer lines----"; section. There is an input to tell TOB whether or not to adjust to new hi-lo's made by the market.

You need mt4ticker to view the charts with the markets being closed.

Drag the robot onto a chart, setting ManuallySetHiLo to true. TOB draws the lines automatically at first. To adjust them, either click and drag, or use the horizontal line price property box. TOB automatically adjusts the other lines.

------------------------

I have attempted a fix for the zero reentrylinepips thingy by adding a void Emergency_RELP_fix() function. Every time TOB has to use relp, it first checks for a zero value and calls the function if so; the function sets a default of 50 pips.

I had to do this; I cannot see how the value can possibly be zero, yet it manifestly can bo. I am clueless.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 The Old Beast.mq4   115 KB | 254 downloads
File Type: zip mt4ticker05.zip   32 KB | 296 downloads
  • #1,451
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:01am Apr 2, 2011 4:01am
Quoting winsteadglenn
Whip,et.al:

Look at this logic. Another approach:There is no reason that we cannot use MPTM and Recovery together. Presuming that MPTM will hedge each separate trade when it reaches, say, 100 pips, it could be set to cancel out the increase in risk by using a 150% ( 1.5 X) multiplier. Then Hedge the Hedge at 200% (2 X) multiplier, on the way back (?down). It would essentially cancel out much of the drawdown, but kick out the hedge on the road back. Then recovery could proceed normally at much, much less risk. Is there any reason this will not...
This is highly imaginative thinking. I will have a look at TOB's code and see if it can continue to send Recovery trades whilst there are hedge trades open.

  • #1,452
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:12am Apr 2, 2011 4:12am
already serve as S/R levels. They, over months of trading live have served us well. They are probably better than conventional measures of S/R because they move with price. As in price channel. Many studies have been done testing Pivots/SR and the like. Randomly placed lines on charts,etc. Price appears no more likely to stop at conventionally calculated S/R lines that it does at randomly drawn lines on a chart. Time and time again. We are slowly killing the Goose(Beast)that lays the Golden Egg. Moving sixths is BRILLIANT! EDIT...Off to walk my dog, have renamed him Beast, after 12 years of Duke.
Vincit qui se vincit.
  • #1,453
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:26am Apr 2, 2011 4:26am
Quoting winsteadglenn
Whip,et.al:

Look at this logic. Another approach:There is no reason that we cannot use MPTM and Recovery together. Presuming that MPTM will hedge each separate trade when it reaches, say, 100 pips, it could be set to cancel out the increase in risk by using a 150% ( 1.5 X) multiplier. Then Hedge the Hedge at 200% (2 X) multiplier, on the way back (?down). It would essentially cancel out much of the drawdown, but kick out the hedge on the road back. Then recovery could proceed normally at much, much less risk. Is there any reason this will not...
It looks as though this can be done.

I am not posting this yet, but I have added a new input to the Hedging section - MptmWillControlHedging. This tells TOB that it can continue to send Recovery trades even if there is a hedge trade open, because hedging is being initiated and controlled by mptm.

It looks as though the various incarnations of candlestic trailing stop are working ok, so I shall release the next version in post 1 in time for Monday. We shall have to test this hedging idea on demo first, to make sure that LUC does not kick in.

  • #1,454
  • Apr 2, 2011 5:24am Apr 2, 2011 5:24am
Quoting Bl888
Steve

I was sitting in the Wharf having a bud today when a lightbulb lit above me.

We all know the following about TOB:

a) TOB is a great piece of art in both execution and recovery
b) As Macman mentioned there is no such thing as a set and forget bot
c) As Scooby mentioned you must apply correct trade size based on your account size and the number of pairs you are going to trade.

So heres a thought i had....
You can go one step further and automate the production of S/R lines - see my earlier post here for ideas -
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=225
  • #1,455
  • Apr 2, 2011 6:25am Apr 2, 2011 6:25am
I will put this here for the backtesters and code checkers. I am not sure it is working properly.

This version attempts to lock in 10 pips at +50 on L3/4 Recovery trades.

The function is void LockInRecoveryProfit(). This is called within void CountOpenTrades(), courtesy of this snippet:

Inserted Code
//Lock in profits of successful Recovery trades
         double profit = OrderProfit() + OrderSwap() + OrderCommission();
         if (profit > 0 && OrderLots() > Lot && OrderStopLoss() == 0) 
         {
            //Must leave hedge trades alone. These trades have the ticket no of the trade they are hedging
            //in the comment field - mptm hedges. TOB sends no comment, so I may need to alter this.
            int ticket = StrToDouble(OrderComment() );
            if (ticket == 0) LockInRecoveryProfit();
         }//if (profit > 0 && OrderLots() > Lot && OrderStopLoss() == 0)

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 The Old Beast.mq4   117 KB | 236 downloads
  • #1,456
  • Apr 2, 2011 6:27am Apr 2, 2011 6:27am
Quoting Krypty
whip

If you are not up to it, I can also take a stab at the manual. Just let me know.
Hi Krypty,
If you have the time and the inclination to do it please have at it....As long as it is OK with Steve.
I work some ungodly hours that have no schedule and I am gone from the thread for 2 or 3 days at a time......
If you need help I'll be glad to jump in....

whip
  • #1,457
  • Edited 6:50am Apr 2, 2011 6:28am | Edited 6:50am
Quoting Pippopotamus
already serve as S/R levels. They, over months of trading live have served us well. They are probably better than conventional measures of S/R because they move with price. As in price channel. Many studies have been done testing Pivots/SR and the like. Randomly placed lines on charts,etc. Price appears no more likely to stop at conventionally calculated S/R lines that it does at randomly drawn lines on a chart. Time and time again. We are slowly killing the Goose(Beast)that lays the Golden Egg. Moving sixths is BRILLIANT! EDIT...Off to walk my...
Sixths is good no doubt. But as everyone is aware by taking all trades drawdowns can be mahoosive. So by only taking trades by which are at strong levels reduces significant drawdowns. Look at EJ, GJ, AU as an example this week. If you had that executing all trades with size then you can say goodbye to your account, but in terms of levels there were no clear levels on the BO, my next level is @ 120.14s so i will have TOB there waiting. If you trading pennies and a large account then off course you will not notice it. try trading live using TOB with 0.4s and with recovery kicking into L4. Says it all right? So this attempt is primarily to offer the user the ability to manage what trade goes in and to use TOB to become a semi maual trader. The theory in TOB is amazing, just need to enhance trades taken. Off course this method is not for the ones who do not want to put the work into it and cant be bascktested either. But believe me, the eperienced people could make a lot of pips from this style.

Also, as mentioned by having this option, the user can even scalp of smaller levels and even fib retracement levels. This is were a lot of locals do their day to day activity brining in large amounts of pips.
The Kamakazi
  • #1,458
  • Apr 2, 2011 6:29am Apr 2, 2011 6:29am
Quoting SteveHopwood
I see you lurking around Bob, so here it is.

Look for the "----Manual control of outer lines----"; section. There is an input to tell TOB whether or not to adjust to new hi-lo's made by the market.

You need mt4ticker to view the charts with the markets being closed.

Drag the robot onto a chart, setting ManuallySetHiLo to true. TOB draws the lines automatically at first. To adjust them, either click and drag, or use the horizontal line price property box. TOB automatically adjusts the other lines.

------------------------

I have attempted...
Cheers Steve, thats a fast turnaround. Ive got my levels already and will be putting to the test from Sun eve.
The Kamakazi
  • #1,459
  • Apr 2, 2011 6:36am Apr 2, 2011 6:36am
Steve

Just want to say that having the option for manual adjustment of the lines is an excellent idea, best of both worlds id say...

Great one

Quoting SteveHopwood
I see you lurking around Bob, so here it is.

Look for the "----Manual control of outer lines----"; section. There is an input to tell TOB whether or not to adjust to new hi-lo's made by the market.

You need mt4ticker to view the charts with the markets being closed.

Drag the robot onto a chart, setting ManuallySetHiLo to true. TOB draws the lines automatically at first. To adjust them, either click and drag, or use the horizontal line price property box. TOB automatically adjusts the other lines.

------------------------

I have attempted...
The Kamakazi
  • #1,460
  • Apr 2, 2011 7:25am Apr 2, 2011 7:25am
Quoting Bl888
Steve

Just want to say that having the option for manual adjustment of the lines is an excellent idea, best of both worlds id say...

Great one
I don't agree - it may be the worst of both worlds.

The concept of 6ths is that it works by looking back over an adjustable period & calculating the most likely range now, based on past values - of course you will get draw down, as this is a fairly blunt tool, but it does statistically come out at a profit, assuming the 6ths calculation is reasonable.

To say that you know better and want to manually adjust the 6ths lines defeats the whole purpose IMHO. The problem with S/R levels for retail traders is you cannot see Interbank pendings, which are the 'real' S/R levels - you only get to see them after the fact.

I have suggested using the programmable SR indi, which can compliment not replace the 6ths - have a close look at it is my considered opinion.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1454

Cheers
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