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broker for high volume traders

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 13, 2011 7:20am Mar 13, 2011 7:20am
Hi

Can anyone suggest a good broker for high volume traders? Deposit of about 500k-800k, trading 50-60 standard lots per trade.

I've gone through a lot of brokers in my time namely dukascopy, interactive, hotspotfx, all the bucketshops etc ... all crap (high slippage, delay in fills, and so on ..). i dont know if i will find an answer on this forum with anyone trading such amounts, but would like to know if anyone has a clue as to wat large volume traders are using? Maybe institutional accounts?

Please no smart ass comments, just reply if you have a solid answer.

Thanks.
  • #2
  • Mar 13, 2011 11:30am Mar 13, 2011 11:30am
Perhaps MarexFX or Berkeley are options for you.
  • #3
  • Mar 13, 2011 8:02pm Mar 13, 2011 8:02pm
Quoting topdogg
Hi

Can anyone suggest a good broker for high volume traders? Deposit of about 500k-800k, trading 50-60 standard lots per trade.

I've gone through a lot of brokers in my time namely dukascopy, interactive, hotspotfx, all the bucketshops etc ... all crap (high slippage, delay in fills, and so on ..). i dont know if i will find an answer on this forum with anyone trading such amounts, but would like to know if anyone has a clue as to wat large volume traders are using? Maybe institutional accounts?

Please no smart ass comments, just reply if...
Have you tried the new HotspotFX? The new HotspotFX caters exclusively to institutions and high-volume traders with min. account size of $1 million. Or you can also try maybe some of the banks like CitiFX, Deutch Bank, Morgan Bank and etc. Their spread is not competitive for retail invesotrs but for larger, high-volume investors like you, their spread might be narrower. Since they are the banks so their liquidity should be good.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #4
  • Mar 13, 2011 8:24pm Mar 13, 2011 8:24pm
Quoting topdogg
Hi

Can anyone suggest a good broker for high volume traders? Deposit of about 500k-800k, trading 50-60 standard lots per trade.

I've gone through a lot of brokers in my time namely dukascopy, interactive, hotspotfx, all the bucketshops etc ... all crap (high slippage, delay in fills, and so on ..). i dont know if i will find an answer on this forum with anyone trading such amounts, but would like to know if anyone has a clue as to wat large volume traders are using? Maybe institutional accounts?

Please no smart ass comments, just reply if...
you should stop trading
  • #5
  • Mar 15, 2011 8:44pm Mar 15, 2011 8:44pm
thank you for your suggestion guys, i appreciate it .. i'm looking into those brokers now
  • #6
  • Mar 16, 2011 11:04am Mar 16, 2011 11:04am
You could do what I do and spread your accounts over several brokers.

I currently use four brokers.

Why?

- I get four live feeds.
- I can see for myself if one broker is misbehaving or has issues.
- I can comfortably trade the volumes you are talking about without slip or re-quotes (the most I get slipped at this level is 1 pip).
- Hedging opportunities.

Ok so the downside means you have to input orders across multiple platforms, but it's not that difficult to click and enter a price.

I've spoken to Hotspot but I'm not sure I'd like the idea of putting all my eggs (money) in one basket.
"I made all my money by selling too soon"
  • #7
  • Mar 17, 2011 6:52pm Mar 17, 2011 6:52pm
Hi Bleek,

I do have my funds in multiple accounts at the moment - i have 4 brokers too. I'm not going to be closing these down, however i'll be decreasing my equity holdings with them as these are not catered for large volume clients - no matter how much they try to convince me.

I want to put additional funds into 1-2 good instituional based brokers so i can trade the way I want to trade with no BS middle man.

Thnx for your input.
  • #8
  • Mar 18, 2011 6:54am Mar 18, 2011 6:54am
What volumes are you trading, PM me if you don't want to say publicly.

Have you tried Alpari Direct Pro using Currenex, it handles high volume very well?
"I made all my money by selling too soon"
  • #9
  • Mar 18, 2011 7:24am Mar 18, 2011 7:24am
Quoting Bleek
What volumes are you trading, PM me if you don't want to say publicly.

Have you tried Alpari Direct Pro using Currenex, it handles high volume very well?
He stated up in the beginning the size he clears, i.e. 5-6mio. As for Alpari Direct Pro Currenex, who is providing the liquidity? Currenex is only as good as the extra liquidity provided by the white label partner (Alpari in this case). Basic CNX without extra liquidity provided is a completely different story, this is why I am asking about Alpari's feed. One of the better shops for CNX feed is LCG, since we are on the subject.
What do you have on your spot bid/ask with Alpari CNX? I.e. if topdogg wanted to fill 6mio, how would his fill look during typical Europe or Americas liquid times?
  • #10
  • Mar 18, 2011 7:36am Mar 18, 2011 7:36am
Quoting petr1029
He stated up in the beginning the size he clears, i.e. 5-6mio. As for Alpari Direct Pro Currenex, who is providing the liquidity? Currenex is only as good as the extra liquidity provided by the white label partner (Alpari in this case). Basic CNX without extra liquidity provided is a completely different story, this is why I am asking about Alpari's feed. One of the better shops for CNX feed is LCG, since we are on the subject.
What do you have on your spot bid/ask with Alpari CNX? I.e. if topdogg wanted to fill 6mio, how would his fill look during...
Well my experience of Alpari Direct during London/GMT trading hours (8-4 ish) is instant fills on 50 contracts, so you'd have to assume they comfortably have the liquidity!

In the grand scheme of things 50 contracts isn't that big.

The main reason I haven't gone down the 'true' institutional route yet is the spreads, I'm a very tight trader with tight stops and targets, I need 1-2 pips to keep me lean.
"I made all my money by selling too soon"
  • #11
  • Mar 18, 2011 7:48am Mar 18, 2011 7:48am
Quoting Bleek
Well my experience of Alpari Direct during London/GMT trading hours (8-4 ish) is instant fills on 50 contracts, so you'd have to assume they comfortably have the liquidity!

In the grand scheme of things 50 contracts isn't that big.

The main reason I haven't gone down the 'true' institutional route yet is the spreads, I'm a very tight trader with tight stops and targets, I need 1-2 pips to keep me lean.
Thanks for the reply. I should have asked - your 50 contracts, do all 50 get filled on the same price if you place a market order? Say you want to buy market EURUSD right now, I see spot bid at 1.41337 ... so when you place market request to fill 50 contracts, and you do not have anything like "all or none" pre-set, how do you get your fills? All 50 contracts on the spot price? (1.41337 in our example), or first 10 on 1.41337, then 10 on 1.41336, then 1.41335 as you walk down the market depth book? What is your typical book like?
  • #12
  • Mar 18, 2011 7:53am Mar 18, 2011 7:53am
Typically a market order gets you the price you ask because (again I assume) liquidity is 100+ at each price point.

Worse case scenario you get a few contracts at 0.1-0.3 points away, to me that isn't a major concern. Perhaps that wouldn't happen on a true Insti' platform?

I don't use limit orders so I can't say how 'guaranteed' they are - sorry.
"I made all my money by selling too soon"
  • #13
  • Mar 18, 2011 9:08am Mar 18, 2011 9:08am
Quoting topdogg
Hi Bleek,

I do have my funds in multiple accounts at the moment - i have 4 brokers too. I'm not going to be closing these down, however i'll be decreasing my equity holdings with them as these are not catered for large volume clients - no matter how much they try to convince me.

I want to put additional funds into 1-2 good instituional based brokers so i can trade the way I want to trade with no BS middle man.

Thnx for your input.
Then you should try to see if you can set something up directly with the "BIG" banks like Deutch, Morgan and Citi. NOT with their retail sidde but with their institutional side and you can tap directly into the interbank market directly. What you want is Direct Market Access (DMA).
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #14
  • Mar 18, 2011 9:44am Mar 18, 2011 9:44am
Quoting Forexia
Then you should try to see if you can set something up directly with the "BIG" banks like Deutch, Morgan and Citi. NOT with their retail sidde but with their institutional side and you can tap directly into the interbank market directly. What you want is Direct Market Access (DMA).
I never tried, but I investigated and they will not talk to you with 0.5M equity... few mil, maybe. Next, it may not be in your interest to have one liquidity provider only... their dealing desk will see your trades, i.e. you will not be anonymous, unlike if you were coming via ECN or STP. You want to have your liquidity derived from several providers. Furthermore, the banks may not always want to be your counterparty on all your traders, so again, it is good to have multiple LP's. Probably best provided by a riskless principal STP or solid ECN.
  • #15
  • Mar 18, 2011 9:45am Mar 18, 2011 9:45am
for high volume, i think it's better to go with an ecn, like mbt or fxopen.
  • #16
  • Mar 18, 2011 9:53am Mar 18, 2011 9:53am
I've traded up to 100 contracts ($1,000) per pip without too much hassle. I typically will split my trades across two platforms/brokers if I go above 50 contracts and that works fine, the only drawback is twice the work which has led me to slightly late entries in really fast markets (my fingers couldn't move fast enough).

It begs the question why you'd need to go direct to a bank, as said above, it limits your options and you are in with just one counter-party - that would worry me.

You also have to ask, why would you need to trade more than 100 lots/contracts? I've learnt to blot-out the numbers and just trade without fear, but even so I sometimes sit back after a good day and just shake my head in disbelief. I can't imagine what trading 200+ contracts is like when you're in the green... madness, in fact it'd probably send you mad!
"I made all my money by selling too soon"
  • #17
  • Mar 18, 2011 10:05am Mar 18, 2011 10:05am
Quoting petr1029
I never tried, but I investigated and they will not talk to you with 0.5M equity... few mil, maybe. Next, it may not be in your interest to have one liquidity provider only... their dealing desk will see your trades, i.e. you will not be anonymous, unlike if you were coming via ECN or STP. You want to have your liquidity derived from several providers. Furthermore, the banks may not always want to be your counterparty on all your traders, so again, it is good to have multiple LP's. Probably best provided by a riskless principal STP or solid ECN....
So for you to be treated as an insitution with the banks, you have to have to at least few mils?? I don't mean to open an account with the banks as retail investors, then you would get the same deal as bucket shops only with wider spreads. I mean to have Direct Market Access, to trade as equals with the banks and the institutions in the market directly. I guess a better question to ask is how do you get Direct Market Access?

How does George Soros trade FX then?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #18
  • Mar 18, 2011 10:13am Mar 18, 2011 10:13am
Quoting Forexia
So for you to be treated as an insitution with the banks, you have to have to at least few mils?? I don't mean to open an account with the banks as retail investors, then you would get the same deal as bucket shops only with wider spreads. I mean to have Direct Market Access, to trade as equals with the banks and the institutions in the market directly. I guess a better question to ask is how do you get Direct Market Access?

How does George Soros trade FX then?
As Bleek also noted, having one liquidity provider (LP, i.e. a bank) is typically not in your interest. DMA could be done via one of the STP providers, like Marex, Man, CFH, Baxter... or well supplied Currenex provider such as LCG.

Black pools of liquidity will gain some traction in FX too... MilanFX is one the first.

Someone who trades 5-10mio should go with a broker that solely caters to big traders and institutions. This in my opinion rules out the brokers someone mentioned above in the thread...
  • #19
  • Mar 18, 2011 10:29am Mar 18, 2011 10:29am
Quoting petr1029
As Bleek also noted, having one liquidity provider (LP, i.e. a bank) is typically not in your interest. DMA could be done via one of the STP providers, like Marex, Man, CFH, Baxter... or well supplied Currenex provider such as LCG.

Black pools of liquidity will gain some traction in FX too... MilanFX is one the first.

Someone who trades 5-10mio should go with a broker that solely caters to big traders and institutions. This in my opinion rules out the brokers someone mentioned above in the thread...
So who are some of the brokers who cater solely to big traders and institutions? That was my quesiton: Who does George Soros trade with?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #20
  • Mar 18, 2011 10:40am Mar 18, 2011 10:40am
Quoting Forexia
So who are some of the brokers who cater solely to big traders and institutions? That was my quesiton: Who does George Soros trade with?
I erased George from my mobile contacts list, but like I said before... Marex, Baxter, CFH, Man Financials, MilanFX, LCG, ICAP's EBS, Reuters ... none of those cater to nano or micro lots.

But I can imagine Soros's people deal directly with a bank of their choice... say DB's Autobahn dealing desk, or maybe Barclay's Barx?

Soros also does not scalp I would think... so I doubt he drops market order worth few yards. His people probably accumulate through regular order flow, and for that he could use any broker that has bank guarantee or daily reconciling with his companies' bank accounts.
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