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Class Action Lawsuit Against FXCM

  • #261
  • Edited 11:40pm Feb 26, 2011 11:21pm | Edited 11:40pm
Quoting tar
Betfair is an exchange for betting , punters in Betfair bet against each other ...
Betfair is good for scalpers because as a betting exchange they give DMA and you can see the real depth of market in a price ladder unlike the Retail Foreign Exchange Industry.

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  • #262
  • Feb 27, 2011 3:16am Feb 27, 2011 3:16am
The real depth of what market though? If you mean betfair's customers that's hardly useful information.
  • #263
  • Feb 27, 2011 11:26pm Feb 27, 2011 11:26pm
Hmmn... Interesting that this thread about the class action lawsuit against FXCM somehow turned into promotion about currency futures, and then to Betfair exchanges and now detailed discussions about Betfair exchanges.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #264
  • Feb 28, 2011 8:27am Feb 28, 2011 8:27am
Quoting LaughingDicK
Betfair is good for scalpers because as a betting exchange they give DMA and you can see the real depth of market in a price ladder unlike the Retail Foreign Exchange Industry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc60nweta9w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtL8vApS-jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFY5arq6I70

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w57778q2g_M

Isn't Betfair behind lmaxtrader.co.uk ?
  • #265
  • Feb 28, 2011 10:49pm Feb 28, 2011 10:49pm
we all know that fxcm regestered in many places

and now you say it's untrusted

so can you tell me the name of a trusted brookr please
  • #266
  • Mar 2, 2011 4:03pm Mar 2, 2011 4:03pm
FXCM shares popped: what you need to know (article)

Easily passes expectations with 29% jump in revenue.

either they are good at trading their own account or they are good at parting some people from their money.

I doubt they would see a 29% jump in revenue just taking spreads do you?
  • #267
  • Mar 2, 2011 4:35pm Mar 2, 2011 4:35pm
Quoting pip_seeker
FXCM shares popped: what you need to know (article)

Easily passes expectations with 29% jump in revenue.

either they are good at trading their own account or they are good at parting some people from their money.

I doubt they would see a 29% jump in revenue just taking spreads do you?
Or maybe people realize that these class action lawsuits are baseless and ill-intended?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #268
  • Mar 2, 2011 11:21pm Mar 2, 2011 11:21pm
Quoting Forexia
Or maybe people realize that these class action lawsuits are baseless and ill-intended?
Or maybe they are trading from an offshore account. Check liquidity, most is offshore!
  • #269
  • Mar 3, 2011 5:12am Mar 3, 2011 5:12am
Quoting Forexia
Or maybe people realize that these class action lawsuits are baseless and ill-intended?
This has been your view from the start of this thread and you have at times passionately defended it, that's your right. I would never spend any time defending my broker whoever it is, I can assure you of that. They are just a bad lot. For me, I prefer to see what comes out of this class action but anyone who has traded with FXCM and other forex brokers can tell you that they have experienced many of the tricks listed in the lawsuit. You never know who you are interacting with here at FF but if you are a trader then you should be happy if the result of this lawsuit is that the forex market becomes more transparent and fair.
  • #270
  • Mar 3, 2011 9:05am Mar 3, 2011 9:05am
Quoting PipStar
This has been your view from the start of this thread and you have at times passionately defended it, that's your right. I would never spend any time defending my broker whoever it is, I can assure you of that. They are just a bad lot. For me, I prefer to see what comes out of this class action but anyone who has traded with FXCM and other forex brokers can tell you that they have experienced many of the tricks listed in the lawsuit. You never know who you are interacting with here at FF but if you are a trader then you should be happy if the result...
Whatever. Being a trader, I am aware of what some of the "gimmicks and tricks" that unscruplous brokers do to take advantage of inexperienced traders whether FXCM is guilty of them is yet to be decided in court but I am also aware of naive traders who accuse brokers of these "tricks" when in fact it's actually market phenomenons. So I have seen it from both sides and I don't mind playing the Devil's advocate to explore the other side's issues.

I will be glad if indeed this lawsuit will lead to positive improvement for the Retail FX industry although we really didn't need a lawsuit to really do something to make the market more transparent and fair. What some of the shady brokers do to us trader is nothing new and if something was to be done it would've been done long time ago. CFTC wasted its time on coming up with one bullshit after another regulations to basically serve one purpose: Kill off Retail FX industry. Ever since when did they really give a shit about us?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #271
  • Mar 3, 2011 4:59pm Mar 3, 2011 4:59pm
Quoting Forexia
we really didn't need a lawsuit to really do something to make the market more transparent and fair.

How do you make a market more transparent and fair when the brokers control the price you get?

We already discussed centrally cleared OTC FX of which you clearly stated was impossible... for those just joining this thread.

I know you're in the ECN bandwagon, but ECN does nothing in regards to price manipulation. In a world in which scams are born every 15 seconds, putting an ECN catch-phrase on a broker website doesn't mean you aren't getting played.

So I would like you to be specific as to what you would do to make the market more transparent and fair and then how do you enforce it?

(Not that any of your ideas would ever be thought of or considered by those highly intelligent U.S. Government officials. Because hey let's face it, any entity capable of a $14 Trillion Credit Card run-up is just way smarter than any pigeon on this board, myself included.)
  • #272
  • Mar 3, 2011 8:25pm Mar 3, 2011 8:25pm
Quoting pip_seeker
............ but ECN does nothing in regards to price manipulation. In a world in which scams are born every 15 seconds, putting an ECN catch-phrase on a broker website doesn't mean you aren't getting played.
Absolutely true. And I have experienced this first hand with many so called ECN brokers. There are some real ECN brokers out there but many pretend ones who like you say use the word ECN as a catch-phrase to lure traders. Mostly with these pretend ECN you get good trade execution at first but after you withdraw some funds you find that the execution worsen to the point that you finally leave. This does not happen with a real ECN.
  • #273
  • Mar 3, 2011 8:29pm Mar 3, 2011 8:29pm
Quoting PipStar
Absolutely true. And I have experienced this first hand with many so called ECN brokers. There are some real ECN brokers out there but many pretend ones who like you say use the word ECN as a catch-phrase to lure traders. Mostly with these pretend ECN you get good trade execution at first but after you withdraw some funds you find that the execution worsen to the point that you finally leave. This does not happen with a real ECN.
Well that's the thing. You don't go with a "Pretend ECN". You go with a real ECN broker. And they are not that hard to find, whether you can afford to trade with them, that's the question. There are ECN brokers like Dukascopy that requires each trade size to be $1,000,000. Way too rich for our blood.

And this is where MM comes in. They provide a service to those traders who are not able to afford to trade with real ECN brokers. When this industry matures a bit, they will all be ECN brokers, REAL ECN brokers.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #274
  • Mar 3, 2011 8:34pm Mar 3, 2011 8:34pm
Quoting Forexia
There are ECN brokers like Dukascopy that requires each trade size to be $1,000,000. Way too rich for our blood.
This was true a couple of years ago but no longer. Check their website, they have reduced minimum deposit and trade size. I would call Dukascopy a true ECN and like I said there are not many.
  • #275
  • Mar 3, 2011 8:35pm Mar 3, 2011 8:35pm
Quoting pip_seeker
How do you make a market more transparent and fair when the brokers control the price you get?

We already discussed centrally cleared OTC FX of which you clearly stated was impossible... for those just joining this thread.

I know you're in the ECN bandwagon, but ECN does nothing in regards to price manipulation. In a world in which scams are born every 15 seconds, putting an ECN catch-phrase on a broker website doesn't mean you aren't getting played.

So I would like you to be specific as to what you would do to make the market more transparent...
Well, we are not talking about fake ECN brokers who are really MM's but put in the "catch-phrase" ECN on their websites. We are talking about REAL ECN brokers who are just there to bring traders and counterparties together and earn commissions for their efforts.

With REAL ECN brokers, they will have no or at least less incentive to manipulate prices because that's just not how their business model works.

We discussed this already??
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #276
  • Edited 11:28pm Mar 3, 2011 8:38pm | Edited 11:28pm
Quoting PipStar
This was true a couple of years ago but no longer. Check their website, they have reduced minimum deposit and trade size. I would call Dukascopy a true ECN and like I said there are not many.
Yes, they did reduce their min. deposit and trade size but you still get preference in execution and orderflow if you have at least min. $1,000,000 trade size simply because there is more liquidity at larger trade size for purely business reasons. I unfortunately found that out from my research.

And you are right. There aren't many of them around now but if Retail FX industry survives once it matures up, eventually there will be all ECN's, REAL ECN's.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #277
  • Mar 4, 2011 8:40am Mar 4, 2011 8:40am
Quoting Forexia
Well, we are not talking about fake ECN brokers who are really MM's but put in the "catch-phrase" ECN on their websites.

We discussed this already??
Yes, we discussed it but when you came up with the idea of a fair and transparent market for all I thought I would make another attempt because there was no meat in the other discussion IMHO. Just alot of this is not possible / it won't work etc.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to include fake ECN brokers everyone would just know who they are. How many noobs come to this market on a monthly basis?

But you decided not to answer how you would enforce the market? Either you don't know or just don't care to go there?

In trying to prove an ECN from a fake one where do you begin? If you get slipped 3 pips on every trade on the front and back end is that enough to question them? Where do you draw the line?

If any broker has the capability to cheat by just flipping a software switch an ECN is nothing more than the same thing we have now just a different wrapper.

I thought when you said "Transparent and Fair" that --that was what you meant. My mistake. Just because some one says they are transparent and fair does that make it so?
  • #278
  • Mar 4, 2011 9:14am Mar 4, 2011 9:14am
Quoting pip_seeker
Yes, we discussed it but when you came up with the idea of a fair and transparent market for all I thought I would make another attempt because there was no meat in the other discussion IMHO. Just alot of this is not possible / it won't work etc.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to include fake ECN brokers everyone would just know who they are. How many noobs come to this market on a monthly basis?

But you decided not to answer how you would enforce the market? Either you don't know or just don't care to go there?

In trying to prove...
OK. First of all, the difference between ECN brokers and MM brokers is NOT just a matter of "flipping a switch". An MM broker cannot instantly transform itself into an ECN broker if it wants to and does not become one just by plastering "ECN" on their websites.

MM brokers and ECN brokers have entirely different business models and therefore the way they do business is totally different. They are apples and oranges and an apple does not become an orange just because somebody put a label of "orange" on an apple.

I would suggest you to read more about ECN's and to understand how they are different from MM's and how and why both of them exist in Retail FX industry. There are lots of good materials over the Internet including on FF's. Then you won't have this fear that MM can be ECN's in disguise and you will see my point.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #279
  • Mar 5, 2011 10:01am Mar 5, 2011 10:01am
ok from this little tidbit neither one really sound all that good to me.

(QUOTE) LINK TO ARTICLE
Conflict of interests
Market Maker: There is a conflict of interests between you and your broker. How does your broker treat this conflict depends on its policy of treating conflict of interests. You can always demand such information from your broker.

ECN: No conflict of interest since an ECN broker executes your order with somebody else.

Execution price
Market Maker: During normal market conditions, your broker will execute your order at the exact price you placed. The only exception will be news time, or high volatility in the market.

ECN: In most of the cases there is a little difference in your placed price and the executed one. Remember that ECN places your order with other broker and the execution takes more time. The responsibility of how this order is executed is not born by your ECN broker. Also, your order may be partially executed or not executed at all.

Trading volumes

Market Makers: Some brokers accept a minimum starting deposit of just $1, minimum trading volumes of 1000 units and high leverage ratios such as 500:1.

ECN: To start trading in ECN environment you will normally need much larger initial deposit. The minimum size contracts start from 10K and leverage levels are not so high.

To summarize, you should carefully consider which of the above is more important for your trading style and to calculate your trading costs for each broker.
(END QUOTE)

What really kills the ECN model is transaction costs and rejected or partially executed trades. You probably already knew this and while I didn't know it specifically I already knew ECN is nothing more than the same wrapped in a different wrapper. Sometimes it's sweet, sometimes not so much.

The problem is enforcement, we live in a regulated world and if someone using an ECN feels like they are being manipulated (IE: partially executed trades or whatever) they will likely complain to NFA / CFTC or whoever.

Going forward the CFTC will be looking at ways to mitigate the enforcement bubble they find themselves in because they lack the man power and the money needed to enforce the various markets they now oversee.

Doesn't matter if you think it will work, won't work whatever. If law is passed to centrally clear OTC Forex trades that's what it will be. If this ruins the market they won't give it one blink of after-thought. They only care about what they have to do to enforce the rules before them.

That was more or less the entire point I was trying to make. When you say "transparent and fair" the only way for this to occur under those specific terms is a centrally cleared Forex Market. Because it would be certain of no price manipulations by the broker.

Just because the business model from ECN to MM is different doesn't mean anything because if you are with an ECN and trading so many lots on Euro or whatever and can't get filled to save your life will you or won't you think you are being played?
  • #280
  • Mar 9, 2011 4:18pm Mar 9, 2011 4:18pm
I just received the following from a law firm in Orlando. Curious to know how they obtained my email. I don't think the laws of Canada allow me to participate in an American class action suit.


-----------------



The Business Trial Group of Morgan & Morgan, P.A. is investigating potential fraud and unfair trade practices by certain Forex Dealer Merchants.

Included in our investigation are the following merchants:

 

  1. FXCM
  2. FXDD
  3. Gain Capital / Forex.com
  4. IKON
  5. MB Trading
  6. IBFX
  7. GFT Forex
  8. Interbank
  9. OANDA

We are seeking information from people who have lost money trading Forex with those companies or others.

If you have any information, or have lost money trading Forex, and want to learn more about what rights you have to recover your losses -- with no cost to you -- please visit www.forexclaims.com.

This is a legal advertisement of Morgan & Morgan, P.A., offices Orlando.


If you do not wish to receive emails from Business Trial Group you may Unsubscribe | Update Profile

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Ste 1600
Orlando, FL 32801, US
http://e.dynetechbusinesssolutions-e...Wb2A2xYn7YQ..A

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