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Order Flow - Achieving the mindset

  • #441
  • Feb 27, 2011 1:13pm Feb 27, 2011 1:13pm
Quoting Darkstar
It... Is... Done...
I hope you're talking about the book! Will we receive an email shortly with further purchasing instructions?
  • #442
  • Feb 27, 2011 1:13pm Feb 27, 2011 1:13pm
Quoting grkfx
Yeah I am not talking algos or quants....
I get it know grkfx, simply fading S/R levels...

I agree a very valid approach, good luck in your trading.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #443
  • Feb 27, 2011 1:44pm Feb 27, 2011 1:44pm
Quoting sisse
I get it know grkfx, simply fading S/R levels...

I agree a very valid approach, good luck in your trading.

sisse
If only it were that simple, this thread probably wouldn't exist

DS - congratulations fella. A big accomplishment.
  • #444
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:01pm Feb 27, 2011 2:01pm
Good job, Darkstar, it must feel pretty good to have accomplished your goal. I hope Ill have the chance to lay my eyes upon your work
“Nothing great in the world has ever been accomplished without passion.”
  • #445
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:04pm Feb 27, 2011 2:04pm
Quoting Darkstar
It... Is... Done...
So your girlfriend understands it?
  • #446
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:21pm Feb 27, 2011 2:21pm
Quoting triphop
If only it were that simple, this thread probably wouldn't exist

DS - congratulations fella. A big accomplishment.
Semantics again. Simple doesn't mean easy. Trading is not easy or simple regardless of what the KISS advocates said. Correctly fading or taking a break of S/R is as easy or difficult as any other trading style.

However, unnecessary complicating concepts and definitions with nice pseudo technical names and a verbose writing style is useless and confuse a lot of newcomers (that was my last post about) when the principles discussed have been there for years and they are defined as simple as fading a S/R level.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #447
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:31pm Feb 27, 2011 2:31pm
aren't the technical levels where traders get killed?

simply fading s/r levels is not what is going on here no matter which way you look at it.
  • #448
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:50pm Feb 27, 2011 2:50pm
Quoting Monroe
aren't the technical levels where traders get killed?

simply fading s/r levels is not what is going on here no matter which way you look at it.
Perspective mate.... perspective.

I am not interested in judging what are you doing here or trying to understand or trash your way or anybody way of analyzing or trading the markets. Even more I must agree that as long as you make money, nobody should care how do you call the technical tools you are using.

I just made an observation on the terminology a poster used that struck me 'cause seemed very misleading from the real meaning, he explained and I understood what he meant.... so nothing else....

At the end perspective in trading is in the eye of the beholder.

Best of luck in your trading.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #449
  • Feb 27, 2011 2:59pm Feb 27, 2011 2:59pm
Quoting sisse
Perspective mate.... perspective.

I am not interested in judging what are you doing here or trying to understand or trash your way or anybody way of analyzing or trading the markets. Even more I must agree that as long as you make money, nobody should care how do you call the technical tools you are using.

I just made an observation on the terminology a poster used that struck me 'cause seemed very misleading from the real meaning, he explained and I understood what he meant.... so nothing else....

At the end [b]perspective in trading...
I don't think it's about our perspective, but it's all good matey. Good luck to you as well.
  • #450
  • Feb 27, 2011 3:18pm Feb 27, 2011 3:18pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
Oh man, you're so wrong there, don't judge a dude by one post is all I can say. Maybe you're idea of mispricing is in a mathamatical sense... And yes this is a game for the computers This is the quant style, I think mispricings in terms of orderflows are more misallocations of liquididity
Algo trading is not only quant. HFT is especially about order-flow - algos seeking and front-running order-flow. I know a few basic HFT trading strategies, and it's all about watching the L2 book, getting out when flow comes in, getting in again when the flows dry up, and playing the range in the mean-time. It's all a positioning against order-flow game. Of course, they only care about mispricings on an at most 4-hour interval.
  • #451
  • Edited 4:06pm Feb 27, 2011 3:48pm | Edited 4:06pm
Carnegie, If I may post a chart...

what hapened here???

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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from the previous day (feb 21)

0304 GMT [Dow Jones] The EUR/USD is falling on increasing risk-aversion following intensifying Libyan political unrest, which is also pushing Japanese and Chinese shares down, says Mitsuru Sahara, a senior foreign exchange dealer at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ. "There are many things happening in Asia today, but the Libyan situation is weighing on the euro the most." The pair is at 1.3592 vs 1.3685 earlier; a U.S. bank dealer said it may fall to 1.3550, adding its declines are also influenced by falls in the EUR/JPY. "After the euro hit stop-loss buying orders at Y114.00, profit-taking selling orders kicked in, and a European bank was especially active in the transaction," the U.S. bank dealer says. The cross is at 113.10 and may fall to 112.75, he adds.

---------------------

Cross/JPY, Cross/CHF, EUR/Crosses, AUD/Crosses, NZD/Crosses under broad based selling. USD, CHF, JPY Up on safe haven on global risk aversion. AUD/USD stoploss hit below 1.0050 to 1.0041, EUR/USD stops hit below 1.3600 to 1.3587 lows and more downside seen given concerns over Bank of Spain comments that Spain's cajas have EUR100bln worth of potentially problematic loans. And concerns over Libya news- more next. EUR/USD eye break of 1.3550, then 1.3500 as funds, hedge funds, Japanese mega-city banks huge sellers of EUR/JPY, AUD/JPY and Europeans, Asians selling EUR/USD as well. Could see Asian sovereign, Swiss supranational, East Europeans, Swiss, Asian, Russian, Middle East selling more EUR/USD, GBP/USD. EUR/USD offers 1.3650, GBP/USD lower at 1.6175-80, eye 1.6050, EUR/CHF hit 1.2897 lows, eye break of 1.2880 for 1.2750 on risk aversion, WL

---------------------
---------------------

from after the feb22 close, after the drop from the open of feb 23rd....

EUR/USD is making fresh strides on the downside, with the market dipping under 1.3525 briefly as an Asian central bank has just been seen buying at the lows. While we note the significant muscle these 'holders of USD's' have in the market at the present time, the risk off theme this morning may prove a little over-powering this time around. You cannot have it all your own way all the time! There are some decent sized stops just under 1.3500, and it seems as though we will see these tripped at some stage.
----------------

later...

Earlier session highs in EUR/USD have been broken, but the market is still showing no signs of wanting to give up on the upside, with yesterday's 1.3717 high now firmly in sight. Through here it is all eyes on 1.3744, and with heightened rate hike expectations, courtesy of the Mersch comments earlier, price action suggests a this will almost certainly happen 'if' 1.3717 gives way. We still see little reason to turn so bullish, though a US think-tank has added to the rate hike 'excitement' and it seems this has given the spot move its 'recent' legs. SM
  • #452
  • Feb 27, 2011 4:22pm Feb 27, 2011 4:22pm
Quoting Carnegie
Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been very active lately, but I had an uni exam that went straight to hell because I have had other things to think about (ya'll know what it IZ )

I'm having a new dilemma now. As I'm viewing the world with new glasses, I'm having difficulties interpreting stuff happening in this world and I would really like to take the time to discuss it.
You might know what I'm talking about.. News and fundamentals!

The order flow mindset isn't (as I understand) about being a technical trader or a fundamental. It's about being...
I think part of the reason that the Euro is climbing is because of the short term interest rates. But if the things start to settle it will start swinging the other way unless the long term interest rates reverse.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf short.pdf   5 KB | 394 downloads
File Type: pdf long.pdf   5 KB | 356 downloads
  • #453
  • Feb 27, 2011 4:25pm Feb 27, 2011 4:25pm
Quoting Monroe
Carnegie, If I may post a chart...

what hapened here???
Quoting Monroe
......
simply fading s/r levels is not what is going on here no matter which way you look at it.
Fading daily support on daily confirmed uptrend on ECB "slip" on interest rate hikes... lol sorry couldn't resist but that was happened for real.

In all seriousness, nice chart and way of trading and let see how high euro can go until the 1.40xx debt crisis cap before debt crisis round 3 hit the table next 2 weeks starting with Brussels meetings and new Portugal 10 yrs sales trading on highs.

Good luck

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #454
  • Edited 5:05pm Feb 27, 2011 4:46pm | Edited 5:05pm
Quoting sisse
Fading daily support on daily confirmed uptrend on ECB "slip" on interest rate hikes... lol sorry couldn't resist but that was happened for real.

In all seriousness, nice chart and way of trading and let see how high euro can go until the 1.40xx debt crisis cap before debt crisis round 3 hit the table next 2 weeks starting with Brussels meetings and new Portugal 10 yrs sales trading on highs.

Good luck

sisse
haha yes a simple technical explanation indeed and nothing wrong with this as I think that is a fine way of finding the entry and pulling the trigger. That was infact a daily trendline I had in red, and I left out the bottom up trendline where it has been getting bought hard off of... and exactly where it bounced off of, but let's not forget about the liquidity under the 3544 swing low where there are stops laying... and let's not forget who is buying and "playing the game" here.

as far as USD, we have the whole QE situation after some weak US data last week. The thought is that the ECB will raise rates sooner then the FED and the market is pricing this in. We have NFP this week as well, so I am guessing this week will range out up here as most limit exposure.

With "tensions in the middle east the wildcard" and of course as you mentioned, the eurozone debt crisis still in the backdrop.

I'll be watching how the market reacts to Trichet and Ben during the week, the US data ahead, and also paying attention to the middle east.

On a side note, I have been hearing of flows coming OUT of CHF as many are uncomfortable being at these levels in CHF and with Goldman releasing buy recommendations on USD/CHF and EUR/CHF.... strange times....


BUT.. "simply fading s/r levels"... I don't think so.
  • #455
  • Feb 27, 2011 5:11pm Feb 27, 2011 5:11pm
I don't use trendlines but this is beyond the point. I agree with you FA outlook and also that it was trading air below 1.354x. On the who was buying we can have a long discussion someday but can guarantee you that most of retail micro timeframes in FF weren't looking to buy when it happened.

sisse

Quoting Monroe
haha yes a simple technical explanation indeed and nothing wrong with this as I think that is a fine way of finding the entry and pulling the trigger. That was infact a daily trendline I had in red, and I left out the bottom up trendline where it has been getting bought hard off of... and exactly where it bounced off of, but let's not forget about the liquidity under the 3544 swing low where there are stops laying... and let's not forget who is buying and "playing the game" here.

as far as USD, we have the whole...
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #456
  • Feb 27, 2011 5:12pm Feb 27, 2011 5:12pm
Quoting sisse
I don't use trendlines but this is beyond the point. I agree with you FA outlook and also that it was trading air below 1.354x. On the who was buying we can have a long discussion someday but can guarantee you that most of retail micro timeframes in FF weren't looking to buy when it happened.

sisse
agreed...
  • #457
  • Feb 28, 2011 3:22am Feb 28, 2011 3:22am
I believe that euro drop to 1.3550 zone on 22/2/2011 was a cleaning up the market before London open, and a typical hedge level process as I pointed out in my previous post. Some guys have to clear out their short positions for market to swing up. Trading this type of price move is not hard. (1). locate the level. (2). wait a buy signal. (3). then quickly get into long.

See my chart. eur-usd, H1.

Is this type of move "order flow" behaviour or "order flow trading" or "order flow mindset" ???

Or Is Chinese Great Wall in euro???
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Attached Image
  • #458
  • Feb 28, 2011 3:52am Feb 28, 2011 3:52am
some people see it as simply fading s/r, some people see it after the fact and get the pinbar PA, some people do other shit who knows what they're doin'...

All I know is, I like to read into the news, get the key levels, order flow info, who is behind it, what's going on in the market that would cause the flows, and what times these particular things happen to get myself higher probability trades and in the money quicker.

orderflow mindset to me is just using your head to figure out what will actually cause people to actively buy and sell and create the flows for this stuff and how they go about doing it. It can be applied to all time scales.

I don't know ....
  • #459
  • Feb 28, 2011 4:40am Feb 28, 2011 4:40am
Quoting Jack168
I believe that euro drop to 1.3550 zone on 22/2/2011 was a cleaning up the market before London open, and a typical hedge level process as I pointed out in my previous post. Some guys have to clear out their short positions for market to swing up. Trading this type of price move is not hard. (1). locate the level. (2). wait a buy signal. (3). then quickly get into long.

See my chart. eur-usd, H1.

Is this type of move "order flow" behaviour or "order flow trading" or "order flow mindset" ???

Or Is Chinese Great Wall in euro???
i thought that they were stop hunting
please share ur knowledge of london,as ive been trading london open very successfully for 3 weeks now
i really would love to learn more from u

my idea is that before london,30 minutes before,for example we have a down trend,then london opens the stop hunters go for the top range of the shorts,knock out their stops and reverse (if theres any good news,they will be following the expected direction of the announcement)
always trying to stop hunt us
if theres not any major news
the direction goes the opposite from the tokyo's major direction that went through the day

i dont know if this is the true reason,but it seems close
as i cant find any other explanation why it moves this way
if any of u have a better explanation of this happening please share,im willing to listen


do u think they always hedge,
and go for stops?or just soemtimes they go with the hedge
if they hedge,woultdnt that create an equilibrium in price?
or maybe what ur saying is that the dealers before london open and the ones at london open are the same guys?
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  • #460
  • Edited 6:51am Feb 28, 2011 6:14am | Edited 6:51am
Ok, let talking about London open.
In my observation, London open and close are very important to watch and trading. I use 8 gmt as London open session start for Mon-Fri, 17 gmt as close.

1. London got 300 plus banks there. When business open, they have to do a huge fx settlement for their corporation clients. They all have to get a market price. So, first 15 minutes or 30 minutes, all banks have to get better price for them. Market makers must make "good price" as setting up price. Bullish day, price will be jitty up, etc...
2. London open, trading volume will be huge amount. All type of traders will jump into open session. Order flow will be increased.
3. If big guy, big market makers were in wrong position in last sessions, they have get out of their wrong positions in thin market, which they can control, before London open. This may be one of reasons why there are a lot of fake move before London open.
4. London open often set up the tone for the day if no major news emerge. So, most of traders will like to accept the direction bias for afterward trading direction.
5. Of course, any significant news or key price level will change London open directional bias.

London close is also quite important. Banks have to settle out their remaining orders, or just coming orders, or waiting-good-price orders. All day traders have to grabe what they can get to close their positions.

So, if you are really order flow traders, you may have to use London open and close.

I found here some mix up in order flow trading, order flow mindset, fundamental analysis, fundamental-oriented trading, fundamental mindset, news trading, news following trading, news oriented trading, fundy-tech combination trading.

My question is what is order flow mindset? what is order flow mindset trading procedure your guy have beeen trading for while? I have not read complete detail of about this topic. So, need of a help. Can anyone of you draw a detail of step for order flow mindset trading?
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