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Order Flow - Achieving the mindset

  • #321
  • Feb 14, 2011 3:27am Feb 14, 2011 3:27am
The EU and GU have been sells for the past couple of weeks based on COT data. GU could go to 1.58 and EU to 1.33. I've been short since 1.6110 and 1.3610
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #322
  • Feb 14, 2011 7:53am Feb 14, 2011 7:53am
Here's some food for thought:

http://www.atrader.com/files/upl/pdf...Strategies.pdf

So which one is the order flow category ?
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf A-Comparison-of-Two-Hedge-Fund-Strategies.pdf   115 KB | 7,467 downloads
  • #323
  • Feb 14, 2011 8:48am Feb 14, 2011 8:48am
Hey guys, sorry I haven't replied in a while but have been really busy. Anyway I hope your weekend has been great and I was really happy to see that there was a nice discussion here in the last couple of pages.

I'm almost finished with T&E and I don't really know what I should move on to next, hopefully you guys have some ideas on what I should focus on next.
As you know the order flow mentality has played a big part in my change the last week or so i.e. I have been thinking about it allot and with grkfx's replies about mispricing a sparkle hit me.
What (I think..) I need to do next is this:

Since mispricing is one of the order flow generators (or "the" one for order flow traders) I need to define what "mispricing" is for me, and see if I can capitalize on that idea I have.
Now I must move on to define what a mispricing is

Now you guys know what I am up to next (as if that matters ), and with that said, all ideas and comments are welcome.

Take care guys.
  • #324
  • Feb 14, 2011 10:31am Feb 14, 2011 10:31am
Hey Carnegie,

This posts by EmeraldEyes and hilmy83 caught my attention yesterday. Apparently according to them everything we need to know is already here

Any who, I was reading Beat The Forex Dealer this weekend, and one thing that really stood out to me 'again' was the stop running that dealers engage in. I find myself today looking at the charts and asking "where and in what direction have the losers entered, where are their stops, will dealers run those stops, and how can I take advantage if they do".

So after T&E maybe spend a day or two in the markets trying to find the losers? Taking in too much info at a time may lead to info paralysis, as others have mentioned.

Just my 2 cents.
  • #325
  • Feb 14, 2011 10:43am Feb 14, 2011 10:43am
Quoting eurotrash
I would suggest you focus next on price discovery, both as a concept and the actual mechanics in an interdealer market.
Hey eurotrash,

Thanks for the advise! Where would you say I can find the best info about price discovery? I recall reading some about it in T&E but it was just a little.. nothing important or very illuminating really.


JimmyJ:

Hey man,

You have to put everything in context. Maybe emerald and hilmy have put down serious amounts of studying and thinking therefore they have found the answers to their own questions right here in the thread.
It's really all about the journey (without sounding too philosophical) so take your time and never mind what the others say. If they have found the answers then we are all happy for them!

Take care
  • #326
  • Feb 14, 2011 3:47pm Feb 14, 2011 3:47pm
Quoting Guerrillawar
Gentleman, I'm right down the street as well in Arlington Heights IL. We should do a fx factory beer. On the right night there are some hot broads at Durty Nellies in Palatine or some other bar right next to it cant remember the name.
If you and Hilmy83 are both up to it, then so am I. However, my wife will not approve of the hot broads part of the plan -- lol.
  • #327
  • Feb 15, 2011 3:23am Feb 15, 2011 3:23am
Quoting GEfx
If you and Hilmy83 are both up to it, then so am I. However, my wife will not approve of the hot broads part of the plan -- lol.
i'm up for it. And like GEfx, i'm a family man too. Plus i don't drink..that's a real kicker eh. but i'm always up to meet up with fellow traders
  • #328
  • Feb 15, 2011 3:32am Feb 15, 2011 3:32am
(cough)
Time hides Nothing
  • #329
  • Feb 15, 2011 3:41am Feb 15, 2011 3:41am
Orderflow is most useful for exits than entry for me. Most of the time my entries are off, but orderflow help me determine where price 'valueing' will take place. Taht helps me determine if my entry gives a wothy risk:reward.

today's trade:

my entry is not the most ideal. But i'm very happy with my exit even though price continued on. You can see my tp is one of the value area-you can tell by the tight range action after i exited-made by people tp,entering longs, shorts finally admit they're fckeed. After the trades finished exchanging hands, bulls have net power, but this is where late bulls come in and take a small piece of the pie, when big guys are already out?..that's my assumption.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trades.JPG Size: 51 KB
  • #330
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:01am Feb 15, 2011 4:01am
Quoting Carnegie
Hey guys, sorry I haven't replied in a while but...
you can read a thousand books more, its the same as hopping from system to system, the search for the holy grail, that doesn't exist, there is no secret, no magic curtain, once revealed trading becomes easy, neither should be or is trading boring, if it isn't interesting you are not focused, if you are not focused you give money to Ms Takes

you need to learn to read the market like a book, read it in its context, find behavioural pattern (or better clusters of it) and how to make money out of it

no option barriers through ifr, no market structure or orderflow book, no system (with an edge), no thread or person can give it to you, you have to fight with the dragon yourself to learn how to kill him
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #331
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:12am Feb 15, 2011 4:12am
Quoting silverheat
you can read a thousand books more, its the same as hopping from system to system, the search for the holy grail, that doesn't exist, there is no secret, no magic curtain, once revealed trading becomes easy, neither should be or is trading boring, if it isn't interesting you are not focused, if you are not focused you give money to Ms Takes

you need to learn to read the market like a book, read it in its context, find behavioural pattern (or better clusters of it) and how to make money out of it

no option barriers through ifr, no market structure...

That post is so full of contradictions its a waste of space
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #332
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:18am Feb 15, 2011 4:18am
Quoting silverheat
you can read a thousand books more, its the same as hopping from system to system, the search for the holy grail, that doesn't exist, there is no secret, no magic curtain, once revealed trading becomes easy, neither should be or is trading boring, if it isn't interesting you are not focused, if you are not focused you give money to Ms Takes

you need to learn to read the market like a book, read it in its context, find behavioural pattern (or better clusters of it) and how to make money out of it

no option barriers through ifr, no market structure...
He knows that.
.
  • #333
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:18am Feb 15, 2011 4:18am
Quoting hilmy83
today's trade:
Glad someone caught that. I was in on it but too. From the 2nd to the last tiny downspike to back up to the top.
  • #334
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:22am Feb 15, 2011 4:22am
Quoting silverheat
you can read a thousand books more, its the same as hopping from system to system, the search for the holy grail, that doesn't exist, there is no secret, no magic curtain, once revealed trading becomes easy, neither should be or is trading boring, if it isn't interesting you are not focused, if you are not focused you give money to Ms Takes

you need to learn to read the market like a book, read it in its context, find behavioural pattern (or better clusters of it) and how to make money out of it

no option barriers through ifr, no market structure...
i hate it when people say trading is about 'figting with your internal self'.wtf..
i blame mark douglas for spreading this zen bullshit...
  • #335
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:22am Feb 15, 2011 4:22am
Quoting dr_who
That post is so full of contradictions its a waste of space
I disagree, name 1
Time hides Nothing
  • #336
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:24am Feb 15, 2011 4:24am
Quoting CindyXXXX
I disagree, name 1

Really, if I have to point them out, you're not as bright as you think you are.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #337
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:28am Feb 15, 2011 4:28am
Quoting hilmy83
i hate it when people say trading is about 'figting with your internal self'.wtf..
i blame mark douglas for spreading this zen bullshit...
didn't mean fighting with yourself, this one wasn't about psychology
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #338
  • Feb 15, 2011 4:29am Feb 15, 2011 4:29am
Quoting dr_who
Really, if I have to point them out, you're not as bright as you think you are.
OK
Time hides Nothing
  • #339
  • Feb 15, 2011 6:39am Feb 15, 2011 6:39am
Quoting Darkstar
Depends what you mean by data. If your asking can it be done without all the big banks and brokers providing you their orderbooks... the answer is definitly yes. Can it be done without knowing where traders have their orders? No... thats the whole point of the methodology.

How you go about getting it is the question you need to work on. There is an answer; you just need to give it some serious thought.
How do I go about getting the order flow data. Can you recommend a source. Do you use order flow for trading excusively or do you also use fundamental or technical analysis to support your trading. Thanks.
  • #340
  • Feb 15, 2011 8:54am Feb 15, 2011 8:54am
Quoting silverheat
you can read a thousand books more, its the same as hopping from system to system, the search for the holy grail, that doesn't exist, there is no secret, no magic curtain, once revealed trading becomes easy, neither should be or is trading boring, if it isn't interesting you are not focused, if you are not focused you give money to Ms Takes

you need to learn to read the market like a book, read it in its context, find behavioural pattern (or better clusters of it) and how to make money out of it

no option barriers through ifr, no market structure...
I find it extremely interesting when people dive right into a discussion without understanding the context.
IF you had read the whole thread, you would have understood as it is extremely obvious - that I am not here to "get another system", or "read another book". Even if you read the ONE SINGLE POST above the one you quoted, I clearly stated "I need to define TO MYSELF what inefficiency etc. is". Isn't that to try to fight the dragon?

Nasir is correct here, I already know that I have to do the work on my own, and that is exactly what I am planning to do, I am of the idea that even if Darkstar gave me his trading system I'd fuck it up cuz I haven't got a single clue on what "base" it is. I see trading systems as based on knowledge, so I have to gain the knowledge for myself and on my own with a little help from others.

While you are saying that I think I will be profitable with reading another book, I disagree with you 100%. In my mind, the more books I read about economics, macroeconomics and market microstructure the more I understand. If I wouldn't read the books.. what should I do? Reinvent them once again? No need really.. There is a meaning behind not necessary to "reinvent the wheel", wouldn't you agree?

I have to agree to a certain point with you, that I don't believe the fact that once I read X amounts of books trading will become easy, thats entirely true. But I disagree on another way, it's the fact that this bullshit you read on these open forums all the time isn't helping anyone.

"you have to learn to read the market like a book"
What's with that bullshit really? In all of this forum people keep tossing around "read the market", "understand her", "know yourself".. THAT DOESN'T HELP. Staring blindly at a chart to "know her" doesn't help you a bit if you don't understand what you're looking for.

I have to say that I might have come off as impolite but that is by no means, I am happy that you could contribute. However, I do feel offended as I truly am searching for the answer ON MY OWN. I can tell you right now that you dont have a single clue on my effort and I am, by no means, trying to be spoon-fed here. Darkstar, grkfx knows this, and even if you don't - that really doesn't matter to me.
I have read your posts and with all respect I'm really not interested in 2+3 timeframes nor single candlestick patterns.

Take care and happy pipping. I will say this once again, I hope I didn't come forward as aggressive or anything because that was not my intention. This is the only thread in this forum about something else then staring at a chart and I don't want people to fuck it up. So please if you would like to keep posting do so regarding order flow, if not we can start another thread.
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