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How did trading change your life?

  • #41
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:03am Jan 30, 2011 5:03am
Quoting Beman
I know it could sound newbish, but it's not, i'm risking 100k (not peanuts) but i'm conscious i can loose them, trying to earn 10 millions so if i'm gonna have a lucky winning streek i'll stop trading. If i'll have a losing streak i'll wait to go to BE. Obviously you can't do it risking a 2.5% a trade, chances to loose everything is too high... patience...
hm, I think your mindset is a bit dangerous for your account. In proper trading there is no luck involved. When you trade, you should know in advance that you will win over the long-term.

And well, the "I'll wait to go to BE" is a very very similar thought like many newbs not using a stoploss and waiting for a losing trade to go to b/e.
It's just the same with strategies. Sooner or later, they will not go back to b/e and just continue on losing. Always cut losers short, that should be applied to trades and losing strategies.

just my personal thoughts.
  • #42
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:11am Jan 30, 2011 5:11am
Quoting Custos
I don't know, I have quite a different opinion on all that.
The market is not normally distributed & take spreads and slippage into account then the 10 tp and 100 sl will very fast get very unprofitable.
Also I still don't understand how you wanna profit from B/E or losing systems. There is no edge in b/e systems, otherwise they would be net-profitable systems. From what I understand it is impossible to know in advance when a b/e system will get back to the b/e point.

However, I think the way you trade with small sl's and holding onto for...
i don't know if i'm just deceived, or i'm right, as i said, time will tell.
More or less when i day trade my mood is this: if i can make 1000 trade in a day (hypothetical) probably i'll get to BE, so if i stop trading when i'm in the money, i'll be a winner for that day. I didn't win the war but at least a battle, the only way to win the war is to stop trading (forever) while in the money.
  • #43
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:17am Jan 30, 2011 5:17am
Quoting Custos
hm, I think your mindset is a bit dangerous for your account. In proper trading there is no luck involved. When you trade, you should know in advance that you will win over the long-term.

And well, the "I'll wait to go to BE" is a very very similar thought like many newbs not using a stoploss and waiting for a losing trade to go to b/e.
It's just the same with strategies. Sooner or later, they will not go back to b/e and just continue on losing. Always cut losers short, that should be applied to trades and losing strategies.

just my personal...
And your thoughts are very appreciated, i'll think deeper on what you said above, that's the only way to grow.

Today this my way to trade/think but tomorrow i don't know! when i go back reading my earlier posts i feel shame, so maybe one day i'll feel shame on my thoughts today!

For me 100k isn't a lightly loss, but not even something to die about, so i know i can loose all of them (consciousness)
  • #44
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:32am Jan 30, 2011 5:32am
Quoting Beman
i don't know if i'm just deceived, or i'm right, as i said, time will tell.
More or less when i day trade my mood is this: if i can make 1000 trade in a day (hypothetical) probably i'll get to BE, so if i stop trading when i'm in the money, i'll be a winner for that day. I didn't win the war but at least a battle, the only way to win the war is to stop trading (forever) while in the money.
hm, capping the winners is dangerous.

I am just speaking from my experience. You need to cap the losers and let profits run, not the other way around. Same is with winning and losing streaks. You need to keep pushing in a winning day or week and reduce exposure during losing streaks.

If you quit, when you are in the money, the profits collected might not be enough to offset the losers.
  • #45
  • Jan 30, 2011 6:14am Jan 30, 2011 6:14am
Quoting Custos
hm, capping the winners is dangerous.

I am just speaking from my experience. You need to cap the losers and let profits run, not the other way around. Same is with winning and losing streaks. You need to keep pushing in a winning day or week and reduce exposure during losing streaks.

If you quit, when you are in the money, the profits collected might not be enough to offset the losers.
Actually, i'm capping the losers (maybe you missed that post) if i lose 2% in a day i stop trading for that day, in this way usually i get at the end of the day with a plus that can go from 1 (more likely) to 5-6% (very rare, but they happens). Is this what you mean when you say to cap losers and let profit run?

I'm intrigued when you say to reduce exposure during losing streaks, do you mean to trade a minor % when you lose? if so, when do you decide to get back to your usual %?
  • #46
  • Jan 30, 2011 6:21am Jan 30, 2011 6:21am
MADE AN ERROR ANSWERING MTRADER87 I SWITCHED SL WITH TP I'VE CORRECTED IT, OR ALL MY REASONING WOULD BE USELESS
  • #47
  • Jan 30, 2011 7:11am Jan 30, 2011 7:11am
Quoting Beman
Actually, i'm capping the losers (maybe you missed that post) if i lose 2% in a day i stop trading for that day, in this way usually i get at the end of the day with a plus that can go from 1 (more likely) to 5-6% (very rare, but they happens). Is this what you mean when you say to cap losers and let profit run?

I'm intrigued when you say to reduce exposure during losing streaks, do you mean to trade a minor % when you lose? if so, when do you decide to get back to your usual %?
okay, yeah I think I missed that post. Anyways, as I said, your strategy with small stop loss and holding onto for very long is pretty good and probably has positive expectancy.

Yeah, I mean trading less % of account. Well, in general systems tend to have streaks as you pointed out. So when the system tends to lose, I reduce, and once it starts tending to win I increase the % again.
But really depends on the system you use.
  • #48
  • Jan 30, 2011 7:38am Jan 30, 2011 7:38am
Before someone thinks i'm having 300% per year, you are far from the truth, i'm doing very good with my day trading (3% a month) and astonishing with long term (13% a month) but it's been a very trendy couple years on eur/usd, easy to pyramid without sl being hit, indeed i'm spilling out money (little) since December...

Thanks Custos to support my long term strategy.

Since i've started to write on the forum i feel less anxious, you guys have been my involuntary analyst
  • #49
  • Jan 30, 2011 11:24am Jan 30, 2011 11:24am
what this thread illustrates is that money management is key to success, without proper MM you will go no where. Beman if i understand your method correctly MM is basically your edge in the market, not a chart pattern
  • #50
  • Jan 30, 2011 11:31am Jan 30, 2011 11:31am
Quoting Custos
I don't know, I have quite a different opinion on all that.
The market is not normally distributed & take spreads and slippage into account then the 10 tp and 100 sl will very fast get very unprofitable.
Also I still don't understand how you wanna profit from B/E or losing systems. There is no edge in b/e systems, otherwise they would be net-profitable systems. From what I understand it is impossible to know in advance when a b/e system will get back to the b/e point.

However, I think the way you trade with small sl's and holding onto for months...
I'm not quite agree with the probability of BE in 10/1 profit/risk ratio that you are talking above. First, I agree that in the long run, we may achieve 10% and 90% win/loss ratio, but that maybe the result in the long run. But who lives long enough to wait for that. "In the long run, we are all dead" Keynes, and here is why?

Suppose that you risk 2% of your capital/trade. So, what you do is losing maybe about 18% of your capital before you reach the big winning trade. But let look at the problem this way. There is still no guarantee that you would achieve a winning trade after 9 consecutive losing trades. Right? What is the chance of winning on the trade 10th? it is still 10% no matter how many losing trades you had endured. How many traders can afford that losing trade + the spreads for every trade. That would make it even more difficult for us to achieve BE, not even mention about profitability.

Personally, i think that the 10/100 SL/PT may be a little hard to achieve for me. We all know that the smaller SL, the quicker and higher probability that we will be stopped out before the trade can turn to our desired direction. The same thing happen with PT, too high Pt makes the chance of winning become smaller.

Maybe I'm a little bit pessimistic here, but I like the strategies that give me higher chance of winning, maybe around 30 to 50% chance. I also agree that holding a trade for a few days may also a good idea, but it still depends on the personality of the trader.
  • #51
  • Jan 30, 2011 11:57am Jan 30, 2011 11:57am
Quoting highlander2
what this thread illustrates is that money management is key to success, without proper MM you will go no where. Beman if i understand your method correctly MM is basically your edge in the market, not a chart pattern
I think differently about MM. In fact, I think MM is really simple that can be done with proper SL and PT. One you know what you want and how much you can afford to risk, there is nothing more for you to do about MM. The key of MM is to set SL small relative to your capital so that when you have many losing trade, you still does not reduce your capital significantly. To stay on this game, we first need to survive before we can think about making any profit.

The real edge still depends on your strategy, entry and exit point. You cannot profit when you go long at the top nor short at the bottom.I know that a lot of traders will disagree with me on that (no one know when the market will top or bottom), but there are some general indicators to tell us that when the market is tired and cannot go higher or lower (probability).

Your entry and exit will also affect your chance of winning or losing trade. For example, if we hope to achieve 100 or 200 pips PT, then we may position our trade a little bit lower, near the turning point, and far away from the top. If the market has gone up about 2000, 3000 pips, of course there is a little chance for it to go up another 2000, 3000 pips. Therefore, depending on our desire PT, we have to chose our entry properly.

Besides MM, strategy, rules, I think we also have to mention about psychology in trading, and I think this is one area that is hard to properly learn and handle. I hope that some traders in here would tell their stories about how to deal with psychology so that we all can learn and discuss about it.
  • #52
  • Jan 30, 2011 2:26pm Jan 30, 2011 2:26pm
All right back to the “life” track... Some posts ago i’ve talked about consciousness, well i think it’s one of the most important things, it perfectly apply both in trading and living.
We human being aren’t perfect, none of us, we all fall into some capital sin before or later.
Some people is able to be conscious about his weakness, someone is not, this last sentence is the fundamental of life and trading. If you love luxury cars and you wanna spend millions for them do it, just be sure you do it because you like cars and not because you can brag others how rich you are! if you love arts and you buy a Picasso even if you have to make a 30 years loan it’s great! you did something for you, you should place it in your house and look at it every time you can, it will make you happy! but if you buy it and then you make parties every night so you can show others that you OWN a Picasso, well you’re not conscious and you’re not on the right track, believe me...
The same appeals for trading, if you start trading with 100000 or 1000$ you MUST be conscious that you can lose them, be ready for it, maybe it will never happen but you have to be ready; if you use a system where you earn 30% of the time be prepared to suffer 20-30-40 loss in a streak in other words be conscious. When you start to be conscious your life change drastically, it is the starting point, everything else will fall after, same is for trading if you are not conscious no matter how perfect your system (how expensive your car) if you are not conscious why you trade (why you spent all that money for a car) you’ll never be happy nor successful
  • #53
  • Jan 30, 2011 2:30pm Jan 30, 2011 2:30pm
Quoting highlander2
what this thread illustrates is that money management is key to success, without proper MM you will go no where. Beman if i understand your method correctly MM is basically your edge in the market, not a chart pattern
yes and no, my edge is that using a 50% system with 1:1 R/R i'll be back to Break Even before or later, so my edge actually is statistic.

Note: maybe, as someone already pointed out, i'm wrong, so don't take it for granted, do your homework and be conscious!! lol i feel a little like a guru talking to the masses
  • #54
  • Jan 30, 2011 3:26pm Jan 30, 2011 3:26pm
Quoting Beman
i feel a little like a guru talking to the masses
  • #55
  • Jan 30, 2011 3:51pm Jan 30, 2011 3:51pm
FX Changed My Perspective to Life.....In My day-Day activity,,, its become A Constant BAttle of weighing the 3R's (RISK;REWARD RATIO )
THE RULE>>>\\>>>> TRADE WHAT u SEE not what u THINK...
  • #56
  • Jan 30, 2011 3:57pm Jan 30, 2011 3:57pm
It's not about how it changed my life but it's about how it will change my life. I'm sure 95% people feels the same way like I do.
  • #57
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:13pm Jan 30, 2011 5:13pm
Now it's too late to write something (it's already midnight!), but I want to say that it's a great subject! Trading DID change my life and it WILL change my life as well. More on that later.

Wow, I just got a TP triggered, € 7.36 more

I just think that all the trading system discussion in this thread is not the real point, after all... it's about the meaning and the impact of money in life, including the trading money...

Anyway, I have to sleep now, good trades to everybody
"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth."
  • #58
  • Jan 30, 2011 5:18pm Jan 30, 2011 5:18pm
Quoting harvest3r
I just think that all the trading system discussion in this thread is not the real point, after all... it's about the meaning and the impact of money in life, including the trading money...
yeah the money is good, but taking on what is one of the hardest jobs on the face of this earth and conquering it means a lot. for me at least.
  • #59
  • Jan 31, 2011 1:26am Jan 31, 2011 1:26am
i've just listened nickelback song "rockstar", think about the text, everyone wants to be a rockstar for what? so we can have money, girls, cars ecc... does it remind something we talked about before??!!
Is it because of that most rockstars or VIP take drugs, die young or are depressed and need clinics?
  • #60
  • Jan 31, 2011 1:30am Jan 31, 2011 1:30am
LOL just found this one:

go to google translator: type "will justin bieber ever hit puberty" translate in vietnamese copy the vietnamese and translate to english

enjoy
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