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Silent Service Method

  • #11,701
  • Jan 27, 2011 8:52am Jan 27, 2011 8:52am
Quoting 2pipsfx
That's strange, most big traders from j16 (indluding himself) trade like that. One I know personally that do very well (and I think he does it for a living).



It's not the size of the account that matters it's the point that they do it for a living so they can't see profit turning into a loose, they will take small profit, move to BE "hoping" to get a nice runner. I just wanted to know if you think it's good to act like that when it comes to trading for a living.



Even if you had the equity for that?



Capital is not my problem, how...
Letting a winner turn into a loss depends on the definition. The people you are quoting will do move to b/e at 20 pips. 20 pips? Seriously? Someone farting at a trade desk can move a currency 20 pips.

If you buy that this is the way to trade, that's fine - it's your account to drain. But the person you "know" that does well, is this someone on a forum, or in real life? If you don't live in the same town, it doesn't count.

And another thing - there are few if any big traders on this forum. I am not trying to be a dick about it, just honest. I would be very wary of listening to people that tell you they move to b/e after the trade has happened is all I am saying. Besides, leaving that alone - just do the math, and come back to me with an explanation as to how it works out in the end.

Your post suggest that you already knew what you wanted to hear. If that's the case, then I don't understand why you asked for my opinion. My (or anyone else's) opinion doesn't matter. If you blow up your account, it won't effect me or anyone else on this forum except you.

By the way, if you have enough to trade Forex for a living, don't. Anyone who has that kind of money to trade would at the very least trade the currency futures, as they are regulated and transparent. Trading that kind of capital in the spot market is simply irresponsible at best. To be honest, there are much safer and easier ways to grow your money than Forex.

Again, not the best business practice to say these things - but I don't want to be like the rest of the shitbags on the net that will tell you how rich you are going to be, and how great the "exciting" world of Forex is. Hell....you aren't really trading anything - just a derivative. Most of the traders I have talked to haven't even figured that part out yet.
  • #11,702
  • Jan 27, 2011 9:21am Jan 27, 2011 9:21am
I don't want to confuse anyone with the last few posts. I am just getting rather sick of a lot of the b.s. that comes with being in the Forex world. There are a lot of b.s.'ers out there, and it tends to wear the patience a little thin. You also have to keep in mind that I deal with a lot of people in trading-related capacities. Not all are trading directly, but I still it all revolves around the trading world.

But let's take a look at Forex directly. The spot Forex market should be thought of as a great training ground. This is why in my group, I tend to talk about stocks and futures as well. It's because Forex should only be part of your portfolio, not all of it. In fact, one of the best traders I know is in the group, and he trades nothing but the currency futures, while posting charts in the forum.

As Forex traders, we tend to shun other investments. But let me ask you this: Is it "cooler" to make money in the Pound instead of Wal-Mart? Here is a better thing to ask: "What's the difference?" You don't own the British Pound anymore than you own Wal-Mart with your 50 shares you bought. Think you own Wal-Mart? Go into the closest store and start taking your things back. Let me know how that works out for you.

The idea is that smart money is involved in several markets around the world. While you may not be rich enough to have stock portfolios in 12 markets around the world and have a massive futures account while trading Forex, there are things you can do.

For starters, if you don't have regular, steady investments, you shouldn't be trading currencies. However, that doesn't mean you can't - but on a smaller scale. Forex is a highly technically driven market, which makes it a great place for learning to trade from a T.A. standpoint. Use this knowledge and trade the weekly stock charts - watch what happens.

Don't get me wrong - Forex has been very good to me. But I also have managed to turn it into a springboard towards new careers. Unlike so many others, I never felt it necessary to pretend like I was a "Forex millionaire", and to be honest - unless you are an idiot, you should never deposit a million dollars with any one broker, unless they are completely transparent. (This would be something like a handful of brokers on the planet.)

However, the truly smart person can open an account with $500, and use it as a learning tool as they build up a general account. (Say at Interactive Brokers) This general account allows you to spot opportunities around the world, and act on them.

Unless of course, you want to deposit all of your money in that "trusted and regulated" broker in Cyprus, Belize, or the Maldives.

I'm just asking all of you to step back, ask a few common sense questions, and think about what you are doing. Hell, some of you might do this and quit. But if that's what you need to do - that's fine. Life is too short to get caught up in a lot of the noise. Trading the markets should teach you this, that the noise isn't worth paying attention to.

There are times when I understand totally what DarkStar did...
  • #11,703
  • Jan 27, 2011 9:22am Jan 27, 2011 9:22am
Quoting clockwork71
Letting a winner turn into a loss depends on the definition. The people you are quoting will do move to b/e at 20 pips. 20 pips? Seriously? Someone farting at a trade desk can move a currency 20 pips.

If you buy that this is the way to trade, that's fine - it's your account to drain. But the person you "know" that does well, is this someone on a forum, or in real life? If you don't live in the same town, it doesn't count.

And another thing - there are few if any big traders on this forum. I am not trying to be a dick about it, just honest....
Hi Chris,

I think it very much depends on the trading style. The longer term players like us (daily and weekly), you are right. BE at +20 pips is just asking for 0 pip orders over and over again. My stops usually go to break even based on the price action of the current day, and more often coincides with a daily high, or daily pivot.

However, if you are a scalper, and there are some excellent scalpers on this forum, it's all about those tight stops, keeping your r:r as best as it can be. 5 pips vs BE+1 is just about the same, but you will find that they are more than happy to grab those 5-10 pips as well. What you will find, as I am sure you are well aware of, are specific, key levels throughout a chart. Price bounces, a scalp is made, and closed out. Move on to the next...

I personally, never had a taste for it. But, it is a very profitable venture if done correctly.
  • #11,704
  • Jan 27, 2011 9:53am Jan 27, 2011 9:53am
Quoting clockwork71
By the way, if you have enough to trade Forex for a living, don't. Anyone who has that kind of money to trade would at the very least trade the currency futures, as they are regulated and transparent. Trading that kind of capital in the spot market is simply irresponsible at best. To be honest, there are much safer and easier ways to grow your money than Forex.
Only way I can think to grow an account (or trade for a living) is the stock market.

Sorry, but I never heard about currency futures.

Thank you anyway.
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,705
  • Jan 27, 2011 9:54am Jan 27, 2011 9:54am
Quoting clockwork71
There are times when I understand totally what DarkStar did...
And what was that he did?
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,706
  • Jan 27, 2011 11:46am Jan 27, 2011 11:46am
Quoting Venice
Hi Chris,

I think it very much depends on the trading style. The longer term players like us (daily and weekly), you are right. BE at +20 pips is just asking for...
Fair enough. I guess I wasn't counting are scalper friends. They of course, are not only crazy - but a different breed altogether. But then again, if you think about it - it's all relative anyway. A scalper's 1% can be twenty pips, and there t/p could be in the range of 10-15 pips as well, so thinking like that - it's kind of the same thing, only in smaller increments. Good point, I suppose I should have said as such. But in the context of the question, it was based off of someone that trades 4 hour, daily, and above charts....
  • #11,707
  • Jan 27, 2011 11:52am Jan 27, 2011 11:52am
Quoting clockwork71
I don't want to confuse anyone with the last few posts. I am just getting rather sick of a lot of the b.s. that comes with being in the Forex world. There are a lot of b.s.'ers out there, and it tends to wear the patience a little thin. You also have to keep in mind that I deal with a lot of people in trading-related capacities. Not all are trading directly, but I still it all revolves around the trading world.

But let's take a look at Forex directly. The spot Forex market should be thought of as a great training ground. This is why in my...
Use this knowledge and trade the weekly stock charts - watch what happens.


Chris,
Not sure I'm ready for stocks yet but can I ask what to expect(on the weeklies) when I do.
  • #11,708
  • Jan 27, 2011 11:57am Jan 27, 2011 11:57am
Quoting 2pipsfx
Only way I can think to grow an account (or trade for a living) is the stock market.

Sorry, but I never heard about currency futures.

Thank you anyway.
Yes, the currency futures markets have one thing Forex doesn't - volume, and that is really, really important.

I am not telling you that you can't grow an account in the spot forex, just that it should only be a small part of your overall investments.

As an example, off the top of my head I currently am:

long:

  1. C, AA, FCX, and JBLU, as well as some other stocks overseas like HTC (2498.TW) and Bank of East Asia. (0023.HK) This doesn't include my retirement account.
  2. usd/jpy
  3. aud/usd and getting nervous

short:

  1. gbp/usd
  2. eur/gbp
  3. 1 contract gold, t/p in a minute.

The idea is that I am spread out. If I had even more money, I would consider some rental properties as well. Maybe I would also consider getting involved in micro loans as well. (This is a great way to make money, just google the net for various sites. You can help a third world person start a business, and get interest as well. The default rate is much lower than in the "civilized" world. Go figure.)

The point is, I have a lot of irons in the fire - and that's how you should try to do it in my opinion.

  • #11,709
  • Jan 27, 2011 11:58am Jan 27, 2011 11:58am
Quoting stewrigh
Use this knowledge and trade the weekly stock charts - watch what happens.


Chris,
Not sure I'm ready for stocks yet but can I ask what to expect(on the weeklies) when I do.
You will find that combining the information you learned in Forex, and paying serious attention to volume, it is actually much easier overall. At least this is my opinion.
  • #11,710
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:06pm Jan 27, 2011 12:06pm
Quote
Yes, the currency futures markets have one thing Forex doesn't - volume, and that is really, really important.
The one thing I hate about forex. It churns and churns and churns. Blasts off in a direction, then churns some more (when looking at it from an intraday perspective).
  • #11,711
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:07pm Jan 27, 2011 12:07pm
Quoting clockwork71
Yes, the currency futures markets have one thing Forex doesn't - volume, and that is really, really important.

I am not telling you that you can't grow an account in the spot forex, just that it should only be a small part of your overall investments.

As an example, off the top of my head I currently am:

long:

  1. C, AA, FCX, and JBLU, as well as some other stocks overseas like HTC (2498.TW) and Bank of East Asia. (0023.HK) This doesn't include my retirement account.
  2. usd/jpy
  3. aud/usd and getting nervous

short:
[list][*]gbp/usd[*]eur/gbp[*]1...

There is just one problem with stocks which is gaps and that you can loose more than you wanted (1% for example) because of those gaps. maybe if trading on the weekly change that picture.

Hadn't traded other thing besides forex (cause of the leverage and that my broker will honor my SL).
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,712
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:10pm Jan 27, 2011 12:10pm
BTW, I'm short E/U at 3740, 61.8% fib level. Stop moved to BE after + 50 pips.

Basically, at this point in time, if price crosses back up there again, I am wrong in my position at the 'top'. Minimal risk is what I am always about .

Price will continue up and I have been knocked out with no loss. I always aim for exact levels though.
  • #11,713
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:12pm Jan 27, 2011 12:12pm
Quoting 2pipsfx
There is just one problem with stocks which is gaps and that you can loose more than you wanted (1% for example) because of those gaps. maybe if trading on the weekly change that picture.

Hadn't traded other thing besides forex (cause of the leverage and that my broker will honor my SL).
I got caught off guard on something like this. Had a nice drug company play, risked 3% based on stops.

The jerks released news over the weekend that they had failed clinical trials with their current drug. I scrapped out a 10% loss on that one.
  • #11,714
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:38pm Jan 27, 2011 12:38pm
Quoting Venice
I got caught off guard on something like this. Had a nice drug company play, risked 3% based on stops.

The jerks released news over the weekend that they had failed clinical trials with their current drug. I scrapped out a 10% loss on that one.
May I ask if was it setup from the weekly or daily chart?

That's the reason why I trade forex and not stocks, you can be in a big DD on your account with that kind of a gap

2pipsfx
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,715
  • Jan 27, 2011 12:41pm Jan 27, 2011 12:41pm
Quoting clockwork71
Yes, the currency futures markets have one thing Forex doesn't - volume, and that is really, really important.
So you can use the Volume on the currency futures markets in order to trade Spot, no?

How do you trade in the futures markets?, isn't that by contracts (and then they have expiration date, no?).

2pipsfx
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,716
  • Jan 27, 2011 1:04pm Jan 27, 2011 1:04pm
Quoting 2pipsfx
May I ask if was it setup from the weekly or daily chart?

That's the reason why I trade forex and not stocks, you can be in a big DD on your account with that kind of a gap

2pipsfx
It was part fundamental, because I was playing the idea that their drug had a good chance of passing, but there was also a consolidation period after an upmove. My price was in at 2.20'ish.

Check it out... GNVC. Set the chart time to a year.
  • #11,717
  • Jan 27, 2011 1:14pm Jan 27, 2011 1:14pm
Quoting Venice
It was part fundamental, because I was playing the idea that their drug had a good chance of passing, but there was also a consolidation period after an upmove. My price was in at 2.20'ish.

Check it out... GNVC. Set the chart time to a year.
I see.

Chris, should we really worry from those gaps if we trade the weekly charts?

2pipsfx
PRICE is Lord, King, Queen and Country
  • #11,718
  • Jan 27, 2011 1:33pm Jan 27, 2011 1:33pm
Quoting 2pipsfx
I see.

Chris, should we really worry from those gaps if we trade the weekly charts?

2pipsfx
If you trade LIQUID STOCKS ONLY, gaps aren't an issue. And if you know how to trade - you understand gaps are simply support and resistance.
  • #11,719
  • Jan 27, 2011 1:34pm Jan 27, 2011 1:34pm
I love the picture in the center of this article, which by the way.....is excellent.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Quanti....html?x=0&.v=1
  • #11,720
  • Jan 27, 2011 1:37pm Jan 27, 2011 1:37pm
Quoting 2pipsfx
So you can use the Volume on the currency futures markets in order to trade Spot, no?

How do you trade in the futures markets?, isn't that by contracts (and then they have expiration date, no?).

2pipsfx

It all depends on how you wish to go about it. Yes, in a sense you can trade the spot by watching the volumes, but you have to assume that the banks that you broker is "dealing with" (as if) have the same amounts of volume.

If you ever actually saw the various feeds, you might be somewhat surprised at the varying prices. Not major, but enough that it makes a difference.

As far as rollover is concerned, there is a great set of articles over at the CME that I highly recommend reading. They obviously are much more fluent in this subject than I.
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