How did trading change your life?

It passed three years since i started trading and finally i can call myself a trader, i'm not full time i'm not a pro, but i'm making (little) money day after day with my daytrading philosophy and pretty big money with my long term philosophy (notice: philosophy not strategy).
Those 3 years completely changed my life, i can say that i'm awaken after a big sleep (Anthony DeMello words), in the beginning i felt lost, i didn't know anymore who i was, all my certainty collapse like a paper wall. All the icon that i was following blindly now where showing for what they were: "nothing" absolutely hollow. Targets for my life were in order:
1) find a good job (so i could make money)
2) making good money (so i could pay for big villa, luxury cars, have money for myself and my family, school insurance, ecc...)
3) marry child/family
4) dying happy with nephew.
My life story could have been used for an advertisement on TV.
I already was on that road, took a dentist degree, starting to make good bucks, having a beautiful girlfriend (that i'll marry on july ), already bought a nice car and looking out for my dream house.
But then one day i went on yahoo finance opened a demo account bought 1000€ shares (don't remember which company, i think google) just to find out a 60-70% gain three days later, wow great!! i thought why in the hell i'm not doing it everyday?. So i discovered forex, forex factory, many fancy indicator strategy who worked for 1 week and then no more; studied hours and hours after job, i remember going at bed at 5 AM waking up at 8 AM working all day long, did that many many times. But even if my efforts where huge i was consistently.... losing money..
Then one day (again) about a year and a half ago i started to think: let's stop all those BS price doesn't move because support resistance ecc... they move randomly!! so i completely changed my perspective about trading and i started to trade in my way, yes, i don't have a strategy, i don't have a plan, i have 1 rule: Stop Loss that's it. There are days where i feel euphoric so i place my Sl at 30-40 pips and i try to TP at 10-15 pips, other days where i place a 10 SL and i wait 100-200 pips profit, my long term strategy is more or less like this: place a "small SL 100 pips" and wait 2-3 months (i would wait 5-10 years, but i'm not able to do it, i struggle waiting too much).
Said that i don't mean to say that technical analysis is garbage, i mean that it wasn't good for me! i couldn't make money with those fixed rules, now that i'm free i have just one rule: stop loss, stop loss, stop loss again.
The fact is this: i'm conscious about what i'm doing, my mind tells me what to do everyday, so it doesn't take effort trading, it's not stressing.

Ok, let's go back to the question: How did trading change your life?
In my case trading set me free, i broke all the mental chains i had, i stopped to listen to others (my icons; an icon could be also your father or mother) and i started to live my life, doing what i like, i almost stopped to work as a dentist (not at all, i don't have so much money).
I started to follow my dreams, sometimes i pass my days doing absolutely nothing, just reading books and taking long walks in the park with my dog. And you know what? i DON'T FEEL GUILTY, once doing nothing for 3 hours would meant to feel guilty for the rest of the day.

More has to come, (the negative effect trading had in my life) it's very difficult to explain those emotions because they aren't completely clear, even in my mind, sometimes i grasp one of them, i try to write it, but then i realize it is to cloudy to explain it.

I still have a lot to say so stay tuned if you like!!

leave your experience that's the purpose of this log!!

and tell me what you like/dislike, about what i'm saying, i'd like to start a polite debate on the subject, my goal is to learn from you, from your experience while telling mine

FX is just as my hobby. I couldn't manage to trade for living, not because it's not possible, but it would be to much of bore for me. I see FX as poker. Just to spend some time, win some money.
How trading changed my life? Well, i gain extra money, which allow me to do extra curricular activities.

interesting story. pls continue

Forex Trading is what I do every single day now-a-days and I can't even begin to tell you how much it has changed my life.

-- It helped me learn and earn so much from a vibrant and exciting market such as Forex markets.
-- It taught me the importance of being well-read, informed, and keep on top of everything happening in the world.
-- It gave me analytical insights on world markets, economies and different methods of trading.
-- It taught me the arcane skills of learning how to read charts, graphs and other areas of technical analysis.
-- It blew my mind as to what is possible and what's not.
-- it taught me valuable life skills such as being able to exercise patience and caution and learn to stomach the fact that anything can happen.

Now you could say: wow great job your life is beautiful, you achieved something other people could only dream of, well... no, it’s not that easy...

So which are the negative effects about trading?

For me, one word, UNCERTAINTY. This is my biggest problem with trading, this is what makes me anxious, sometimes i can’t sleep at night because of that damn word.
You can’t predict prices that’s it, again YOU CAN NOT, no matter how hard you try you must learn to cohabit with uncertainty, today you earn 1.000 buck a day, tomorrow you’ll lose 10.000, be ready for it, it will happen, maybe not today, but believe me before or later it will. It could even happen for 3-4 days in a row or a month or two in a row, what will you do when it happens? (that’s why i prefer long term trading, the R:R is better, you lose 10$ to make 100$ if you want, you can’t have the same approach for day trading). I see you behind the screen laughing: “Ah ah, it can’t happen to me, my analyses are so good that it can’t happen”, dude wake up!! you’re playing with probability, a couple researcher (i think Stephen Hawking) made this statement: what is the probability a monkey can write the divine commediae? (it’s a book made of about 664 pages) well it is 10 elevated 750.000, in other words 1 every 100000... until you reach 750.000 zeros. So let’s say you’re a gambler and you bet that a monkey would never write it, if you win everyday you receive 1$ if you lose you give 100000*750.000$, probably you’ll never lose for all your life time. But let’s say there are 1 million gambler now, so there are 1 million monkeys and let’s say that we will not leave 90 years but 1 million years, well the scenario is pretty changed, something that was almost impossible now could happen.
Are you still so convinced you can’t lose trading? if a monkey can write a 660 pages book, believe me you can lose your underwear trading, and it will not happen in 1 million year, nor you’ll need 1 million monkey... just one!!! Lol!

See you next!

Interesting experience. I must say that I have the same experience with regards to Technical Analysis. Price is random enough for it to not work consistently over the long-term. At least from my experience.

However, this led me to a more overall study about the functioning of the markets and mass behavior which in turn led me to finally finding profitable approaches, which work over the long haul.

Well, what I learned throughout the years: everybody talks about psychology being the main problem in trading. I think that is completely wrong. Most systems are just garbage and no matter how psychologically grounded you are, they will never ever work in the long-term (yes, and also 99% of systems found here on ff are net-unprofitable over the long-term).
Finding systems that are a bit out-side the box is the real challenge and actually following the ideas layed out in this forum holds you back in finding the real profitable niches. The blind leading the blind.

And finally, it taught me to accept that each trade is uncertain, but a large number of trades will give a certain outcome.

How objects become icons?
yes, objects can’t tell us how to live our life, but they can influence our opinions about a person, so they reflect our idea of life. Eg. you see a guy with an Armani or Valentino suit, you don’t think he could be a robber, while if you see the same guy dressed in a homeless way, you judge him in a different view, when you do that... good job you’ve just build your own cage. Don’t you agree? do the same example and swap the suit with a car, house, iphone, ecc... or any object who owning it, will change the way other people look at you
When you give that value to an object, you are “caged” now you want that object, and if that object is too expensive? no worries, you can always have a debit!!!

more has to come on the subject (are we human being stupid?)

I just don't agree with one statement with your post, "the psychology isn't important" for me unprofitable systems does exist, but they aren't so many, even a coin approach can be profitable (the eternal debate ), how?
Scenario: Trader A tries the coin system for 1 week it isn't profitable, stops, tries another one
Trader B tries the same system, it gave him a net loss for a month, the 2nd month it goes to BE, the third month it earns money, at that point trader B stops the coin system with a profit, at the same time Trader A tried another 5 systems he lost with all of them...

I think 99% of the systems goes to break even over the long haul, traders just don't have the patience to wait for the BE to come.

God, any system can be profitable for a while. When I speak of net-profitable systems over the long haul, I mean systems with 10,000 trades per instrument on at least 50 uncorrelated instruments. If 90% of those instruments are profitable, we talk about a system with an edge, or a real profitable system. And not many systems can fulfill that requirement. That's why I still say: 99% of systems are losers in the long-term.
Your example with 3 months of trading a system is a bit newbish. And if you try the coin-toss strategy over 10,000 trades it will be a net loser, except you curve-fit it, which is definitely not what one should do.
Why 10,000? Cause in statistics that is the minimum requirement until you can say that something is statistically significant. And yes, science like statistics even can be and should be applied to trading.

Anyways, enough of the rant. Not here to convince anybody, so find out what works for yourself.

Probably it's me that i'm dumb, but didn't you say price are random one post ago? so what's the sense to test them?
I said most systems goes to BE, if you test a coin cross over 10.000 you will probably get to BE passing trough long winning streek (trader B wins) and long losing streek (trader A lose)

that is where you have to think out of the box and think more in terms of mass behavior and less in chart patterns or TA or whatever.

Hi Benman,

I know how your rule works (i think). Its almost the reverse of a cardinal trading error. This error is not placing a stoploss at all and refusing to exit the trade in the hope it comes back. we all know that controlling risk is the number one rule, and those who dont control thier risk lose. A lot of traders make money without stops untill one day the market moves against them and keeps moving against them so they end up wiping out half their account.

What you are in a sense doing it seems is trading the opposite of this and not controlling your profits. this means the market can move infinatly in your favour but not against you.

If i was to start trading with a 5 pip take profit and no stoploss and just waited for the target to be hit, i would have a lot of small wins. Most of the trades i got in would give me a win. But this one time would be different and the market would go against me, perhaps for years. By reversing this and trading with a 5 pip stop should then produce the opposite affect. loads of small losers but then 1 massive win.

i know perhaps this is not exactly how yu are looking at it, but i think i understand where you are comming from. it dawned on me sometime last year that if i did no place a take profit on my trades, some of the wins would be monsters because the market can move hugely in my favour.

sadly my psychology does not allow for this.

but i did consider asking a family member (with no experience) to trade with out stops on demo account(or small micro account for added fear value!), and i would trade against him(take the opposite position at the same time and exit when they did). in theory he should eventually make a right mess, and when they did i would be in $.

This post has got out of hand, but i love talking about this sort of stuff.
Am i somewhere in the same ball park as you with my thoughts?

John

Yes, you're right taking small losses and big profit is the best way to trade (for me). Unfortunately your psychology is breaking you (well, at least you're not alone, i'm with you mate ).
Something that helped me a lot to acquire confidence in my self has been this, open a position everyday (say at 8 GMT), you decide to go long or short, place 100 SL wait the day after if it's a win, place Sl to BE and place another trade (long or short you decide) and then live them open for at least 3 months, you'll be surprised of the results.
You should lose very little of your account say max 0,5% (but less is better), the force of this strategy is to lose peanuts but then pyramiding, you'll get great result.

Remember uncertainty, you can't leave your job with this approach, unless you're already millionaire

Highlander don't worry you're not out of topic, we are talking about life and trading.

just some graph about a coin toss system
i've started a simulation with 1000$ betting always 10$ (i mean without using a % of the account)
Let's say that trader A would bet on cross, while trader B on Heads
those are the results
this one after 1000 launch gave trader A a profit of 240$, while trader B is losing, trader A is delighted by the results


1000 launches later... Trader A earned a 48% (480$) of his account, now he is on top of the world


1000 launches later Trader A suffer a loss streak system goes to -200$ (losing 680$ overall) trader B decides to close his position when he is at +100

as you can see being patience would have led you to break even, after about 3000 launches
Our trader B would have make money since he would have waited for a positive territory
Trader A would have lose since he wouldn't have waited for BE

Has you can see a "discussion" with Custos led us to go a little deeper on the subject, so feel free to criticize.

we talked about the value people (me included) give to objects, we are so blind we don’t see we are in a big rat race. When you ask somebody: are you happy? he says: not at all, i’ll be when i’ll have a better job, better car, better house ecc... here lies the problem!! we give objects the keys for our happiness!! aren’t we crazy!!?? when you buy a Ferrari you feel on the top of the world for 3-4 months, then a new object will come to your mind and you’ll be depressed again until you’ll get the new object and so on... it’s a race, a race to buy the most expensive product, so we can give us a tone with other people.
I’ve started to fully understand that when i went into my box watched my xxxx€ car and i saw just a piece of metal with wheels!! i’ve renunced to go on vacation, to go to the restaurant ecc... to buy a piece of metal!! nice job Mr Stupid...
Still don’t agree? let’s say this:

Mr A is a good guy he has a family and he’s looking for happiness, he knows his child will go to college, her wife deserve a jewel, he deserves a better car, when he will accomplish that he will be happy!
So what do you do when you need money? you work more, now you work 12-14 hours a day, while doing that life passes you through and you don’t even realize that! your kids get adult, and at the end you see someone how’s getting married, but you know nothing about him. Your wife starts cheating you, and you get mad with her, so you shout her:”after what i did for you, you cheat me?” and she goes:”what did you do for me?”, “i’ve worked so hard so you could buy all those jewels!!!” “i’ve never asked for jewels, i’ve married you, not jewels...” how is right in this story??

still not convinced? here we go:
Thornton Wilder:” Little town” (read it in a Leo Buscaglia book).
Emily, a little girl died, they led her to the cemetery and ask her: “you can relive one day of your life. which one do you prefer?” she goes: “i remember how happy i was my 12th birthday, i would go back there” everyone near her said “don’t do that don’t go there”, but she insists, so the scene changes. She is there 12 years old, into her happiest day. She is coming down the stairs with her beautiful little dress and her waving curls. But her mother is so occupied to make the cake she doesn’t have the time to notice her. Emily says: “mom look at me, i’m here, the celebrated” mom:”very good, misses celebrated. Sit down and have breakfast”. Emily doesn’t sit and says:”mom look at me”, but her mother doesn’t look at her. Her dad comes in the scene but he is so occupied to earn money for her that he never looked her, even her brother doesn’t watch her, he is has no time, he has so many things to do. So at the end she says:”please somebody look at me. I don’t need cake nor money. Look at me please!”. But nobody did. So she gets back to the cemetery saying:”i forgot how human beans were. nobody cares each other.”

(from Buscaglia’s book)
Life isn’t the target, life is the travel, life means getting to destination. Good you got there and what you got? People looks at you with respect. You’ve got a Cadillac, a Cadillac is a very cold friend it has a steering wheel and doors. We forgot what means watching each other, taking care each other.I’m not surprised if we are all dying by desolation.

More than 600 people read this, now i pretend some one criticize me!! it can't be you all agree with me! i've even presented a coin trading system!! people get mad when saw this!

If you don't criticize we can't get better together, your opinions are important, if we discuss we learn something each other, i'll try to understand your point of view, doing that i learn something more. It doesn't mean i have to completely agree on what you say nor the countrary, luckily we are all different!!

Quite frankly a coin toss system will probably beat a lot of traders out there who are simply consistent losers. thats if you are placing equal tp and sl. The only thing that you should be down is the combined spread after a large number of trades. You only need to out perform a coin by a percent or so to make money although i was never that interested in statistics with trading. i prefer real time results.

There are to types of trader, those who think of it as science, statistics and excel spreadsheets. And those who thinks its art and crafts. Im more the art type!

(Cool! New charts!)




It's a rat race, and all people think of each other is where to draw the personal boundary lines: What to do, what others have done, and who to do over.
With this kind of pressure, I wish I'd considered when the chips may be down, since life's fortunes change like a chart.
Your story tells how people forget to embrace the moment with others close and instead race to the next step in their own life plan.