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Order Flow - Finding cluster of stops on chart

  • #361
  • Jan 23, 2011 11:11am Jan 23, 2011 11:11am
More examples...

- - - - - - - -
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer proverb.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 4 - 6BH1 M5.gif Size: 27 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 5 - 6BH1 M15.gif Size: 22 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 6 - 6BH1 M30.gif Size: 22 KB
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer prov
  • #362
  • Edited 4:02pm Jan 23, 2011 11:15am | Edited 4:02pm
And couple more...


- - - - - - - -

“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer proverb.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 7 - 6BH11 M5.gif Size: 29 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 8 - 6BH1 M15.gif Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 9 - 6BH1 M30.gif Size: 24 KB
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer prov
  • #363
  • Edited 3:33pm Jan 23, 2011 11:19am | Edited 3:33pm
And the last few...

Notice that momentum thrust bar pointed by arrow. Usually when price takes orders cluster it does that with huge power. Market movers must place enough force into the movement to carry it through all these orders sitting above/below congestion.

Take care.

Vidas

- - - - - - - -

“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer proverb.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 10 - 6BH1 M5.gif Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 11 - 6BH1 M15.gif Size: 27 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 12 - 6BH1 M30.gif Size: 24 KB
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer prov
  • #364
  • Edited 4:04pm Jan 23, 2011 11:22am | Edited 4:04pm
Just couple words of caution:

•You won't have to force yourself to entry the trade.
•You need to see obvious entry formations.
•To have clear vision of entry points use two – three different time frame charts.
•Once again - it must be clear definite trading range or pivot point on the chart well ahead of the trading orders' cluster.
•Be quick to exit if you don't see explosive moves you are looking for. The moves we want must carry momentum. They should blast through the order clusters.

That's all I wanted to share with you. Good luck to all and trade well.

Take care.

Vidas

- - - - - - - -

“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer proverb.
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer prov
  • #365
  • Jan 23, 2011 11:22am Jan 23, 2011 11:22am
Quoting TapeReader
Hi Pips Cruiser,

Thanks for the mention regarding the, "Core Principles Regarding How Changes in Order Flow Affect Changes in Price".

I am Carl Weiss and wrote those original principles.
Engracing us with your presence.
Please to meet you Carl

Those 10 lines, to me, are the essence of orderflow trading. Of corse, they don't explain how the structures of markets work, but it took about 600 pages to Harris Lewis to resume all the market functioning structure.

Quoting Carnegie
The last piece of puzzle now sits on what the other phenomena is.
Carnegie, my friend, that's exactly how Darkstar is expecting us to think: concentrating on the key words of his posts to extract the essence of itself.
Old S/R you say? that might be:

Quoting A-technical-analyst
The best place to put your stop is right behind the last s/r
Quoting An-orderflow-analyst
The best place to fade some stops is right behind the last s/r


Quoting Carnegie
Does stop-hunting only occur at round numbers and over/below
I would include in that s/r, option barriers and ... dunno.

Let me quote Darkstar here:
Quoting Darkstar
Orderflow trading in a nutshell:

1)Find the stops and fade them.

2)Find the barrier options and push into them.

3)Find pockets with a lack of open interest and gap them.

4)Find a sequence of stops spaced 10-25 pips apart and prepare to put your kids through college.


And we go back to the main topic of this thread, HOW exactly can one do that?
  • #366
  • Jan 23, 2011 11:37am Jan 23, 2011 11:37am
I know the thread title is about cluster of stops on chart. And yes charts can be helpful to locate the support/resistance and possible stop locations,etc. But in the end it is all about order, and what will generate order flow.

This thread has far too many charts posted in my opinion. Sometimes they can get in the way of taking your trading to the next level, as you can be grappling with learning the new order flow mentality, but that old technical analysis/chart mentality can be dead weight on your shoulders. And as such many people keep going back to the charts to find the secret patterns, the secret stop hunts, the secret indicators, the secret support and resistance, the special VSA, etc that they believe can help them become an order flow trader. I know, I went through a similar phase.

Let me propose an exercise that may or may not help you. Get rid of all your charts, get rid of all your computers. You are not allowed to look at a chart. You can have some books with you as long as they do not have charts, you can save forum posts and stuff and print them out to have them handy.

Sit down and think deeply about the market, about the structure, about the liquidity, about the emotions of the market participants, the expectations of the market. Think about what would cause price to move, what would cause price to move 40 pips, to move 100 pips, to move 400 pips, to move 1,000 pips.

Then play out scenarios in your head about different market setups and market participants. Write down a list of 10 things which you know will generate order flow and price movement. Write out 10 scenarios where the different market participants are battling it out and who will win. Write down 10 ideal order flow setups entries and exits. Think about liquidity vacuum, stops, etc and how they can play together.

Don't stop or go back to charts until you are done. If at the end, your list is filled with things like moving averages, price hitting a chart s/r level, or stochastic divergence, or anything related to a chart pattern, or charts in general, then I would be very skeptical. Chances are you need to redouble your efforts and think more and search more about what will really generate order flow.

Whether you choose to do the exercise or not, I hope it helps.
Private message me for a link to my order flow website.
  • #367
  • Jan 23, 2011 12:49pm Jan 23, 2011 12:49pm
you can probably place an order on either side of a round number randomly in either direction and grab 10-20 pips if you wanted to trade that way. There are always going to be orders above and below those areas (don't want to say always like 100% always, but 'almost' always).

So are Order Flow traders mostly scalpers? I kind of get that impression... Nothing wrong with that, just curious.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #368
  • Jan 23, 2011 1:26pm Jan 23, 2011 1:26pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
you can probably place an order on either side of a round number randomly in either direction and grab 10-20 pips if you wanted to trade that way. There are always going to be orders above and below those areas (don't want to say always like 100% always, but 'almost' always).

So are Order Flow traders mostly scalpers? I kind of get that impression... Nothing wrong with that, just curious.
If you believe the commodity is undervalued and big players are running for stops to load up their inventory this could be swing to long-term order flow trading.
  • #369
  • Jan 23, 2011 1:35pm Jan 23, 2011 1:35pm
Reading your post was like going through my thoughts

I don't know what people's expectations are regarding the order flow concepts and how would you capitalized based on this informations, but at the end of the day you still need to make this style of trading to fit your personality and how you internalized with it is even more important.


I always wanted to understand whats behind the chart movement, I can't do a thing if I do not understand how it works out. I'm build the otherway around, not like peoples who trade without to care too much about this stuff, so for me was crucial to know how price function, I thing that is bc I'm an engineer by profession.

I'm all for people learning more about what they are trading - hell, I would never throw my money away betting on something I don't understand.

But so many people seem to think that 'order flow' is some kind of magic trading bullet. And it isn't. It's a great way to understand why the market is doing what it is doing, sometimes.

Even in the conventional order flow traders there are so many variance of their own definition of why price did what it did.

Now I get the true meaning of Darkstar's word when he speek about order flow trading is about mindset, that we must anticipate what the next "true value" will be in the future, by anticipating where peoples will want to trade in the future. When we are addressing to a chart it's more important to feel what she's doing and respond to her actions, because she will allways tips her hands up, for me thats trading the orderflow.

At the end of the day all comes down to, How do you capitalized based on this information? What's the use of knowing all these materials if you can't benefit from it?

I don't know how accurate I'm and I know that I'm not so versatile when it comes to this subject but is the way I'm doing it.

all the best!



Quoting grkfx
I know the thread title is about cluster of stops on chart. And yes charts can be helpful to locate the support/resistance and possible stop locations,etc. But in the end it is all about order, and what will generate order flow.

This thread has far too many charts posted in my opinion. Sometimes they can get in the way of taking your trading to the next level, as you can be grappling with learning the new order flow mentality, but that old technical analysis/chart mentality can be dead weight on your shoulders. And as such many people keep going...
  • #370
  • Jan 23, 2011 1:41pm Jan 23, 2011 1:41pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
you can probably place an order on either side of a round number randomly in either direction and grab 10-20 pips if you wanted to trade that way. There are always going to be orders above and below those areas (don't want to say always like 100% always, but 'almost' always).

So are Order Flow traders mostly scalpers? I kind of get that impression... Nothing wrong with that, just curious.
Personally, I've been using orderflow trading to catch moves upward of 300 pips quite succesfully. I managed to pick up my account 5000% in 6 weeks using my own methodology and, yes, Ill admit, making extensive use of the 50:1 leverage Oanda empowers me with .
“Nothing great in the world has ever been accomplished without passion.”
  • #371
  • Jan 23, 2011 1:51pm Jan 23, 2011 1:51pm
Quoting grkfx
I know the thread title is about cluster of stops on chart....
Agreed - I did something similar though not quite to that extent (will do though). Blocking out all the "noise" and just sitting with a blank sheet of paper can be very educational.
  • #372
  • Jan 23, 2011 1:56pm Jan 23, 2011 1:56pm
This is all a complicated way of describing breakouts and price action. You can never know about pending orders because you will never have that information. All you have is past price and a derivation of that, so that's all you have to go on.
Kind Regards Chris
  • #373
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:00pm Jan 23, 2011 2:00pm
Quoting chriskins
This is all a complicated way of describing breakouts and price action. You can never know about pending orders because you will never have that information. All you have is past price and a derivation of that, so that's all you have to go on.
Some of us have more than just past price
  • #374
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:07pm Jan 23, 2011 2:07pm
Quoting TapeReader
Hi Pips Cruiser,

Thanks for the mention regarding the, "Core Principles Regarding How Changes in Order Flow Affect Changes in Price".

I am Carl Weiss and wrote those original principles.

We surface the output of some of our order flow monitoring algorithms along with trade signals for free at http://algofutures.com/.

The insights that are surfaced, IMHO, are quite astounding...there are also some videos and other materials that shed some light with what goes on under the hood of electronic markets.

Everything is free...we're...
Hey there, Carl. Thanks for your visit and your contributions!
  • #375
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:09pm Jan 23, 2011 2:09pm
Quoting Adal
Some of us have more than just past price
There is no order book, or centralised volume information. So not sure what you have but I would guess unless you work for a central bank or a huge IB then you have nothing that is exploitable.
Kind Regards Chris
  • #376
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:12pm Jan 23, 2011 2:12pm
Quoting chriskins
There is no order book, or centralised volume information. So not sure what you have but I would guess unless you work for a central bank or a huge IB then you have nothing that is exploitable.
And why would you need centralized information? Have you ever heard about a sample, the very basis of statistics? :nerd:
“Nothing great in the world has ever been accomplished without passion.”
  • #377
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:17pm Jan 23, 2011 2:17pm
Quoting Adal
I'm also witnessing gold bubble mentality in my country. News reports on TV that people are changing euros to gold, don't use gold as collateral anymore at pawn shops, and small gold bullion (1g, 5g) is selling like hot cakes. Some of my coworkers, which know that I'm into finance, are asking me how to buy gold.

Currently I'm playing with historical gold prices, doing simulations and trying to find the safest way to bet against gold. My current plan is to try catching a few smaller moves (now -> 1250 for example), not the big one, which is riskier...
Gold is not a bubble, althought it's making an all time high, but it hasn't come close to hitting its old highs in real terms, if you take in consideration inflation

I don't know if that's accurate when it comes to peoples who own gold,it's quite contrary there are few people who own it at this moment.Where did you get that information from, haven't heard a word of it.

In the short and medium term I think that gold is due to a corection, is a period of readjustment, always is the same old cycle,if you have study dow theory you will get what I mean.

She is already establishing the line of least resistance to the downside, so you have kind of lost the opportunity to get a safest entry, I thought you already beat against gold (just kidding).

Expecting the same here, that in the long term gold is due to move much more higher.

all the best!
  • #378
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:39pm Jan 23, 2011 2:39pm
Quoting triger88990
I don't know if that's accurate when it comes to peoples who own gold,it's quite contrary there are few people who own it at this moment.Where did you get that information from, haven't heard a word of it.
When I see people screaming BUY GOLD on every post on ZeroHedge and most other financial blogs, no matter what the article is about, I know we are getting long in the tooth.

The same about ATM gold dispensers.

Like I said, it was a TV news feature in my (small) country - http://videonews.antena3.ro/action/v...omiile-in-aur/
  • #379
  • Jan 23, 2011 2:56pm Jan 23, 2011 2:56pm
Quoting Deevz
And why would you need centralized information? Have you ever heard about a sample, the very basis of statistics? :nerd:
Not sure a particular retail broker's volume is significant against over a trillion a day from the other participants. But if it works for you then go for it.
Kind Regards Chris
  • #380
  • Jan 23, 2011 3:10pm Jan 23, 2011 3:10pm
Quoting chriskins
Not sure a particular retail broker's volume is significant against over a trillion a day from the other participants. But if it works for you then go for it.
The same myth over and over again. That retail is peanuts, that it doesn't count in the great scheme of things.

The reality is that retail is big business these days. 5-10% by some reports. That would make it the third global player by volume, after DB, UBS and Barclays.

Here it's reported to be $118 bln daily, which confirms the 5-10% figure - http://forexmagnates.com/retail-fore...eptember-2010/

Of course, to be aware of such things would require someone to actually research stuff on the net, instead of acting on years old fourth-hand information found on forums.
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