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I'm looking for a programmer for a complete Non-Loss System

  • #41
  • Dec 18, 2010 4:18am Dec 18, 2010 4:18am
Quoting BeLikeWater
Repeat with me: hedging is for noobs.... is for noobs.... and its a nonsense.

And I do it because i am afraid to confront myself with a loss.

If you think/see market has more chances to go up I buy with SL and TP.

If you think/see market has more chances to down I sell with SL and TP.

PD: Read "Trading in Zone" asap.
YOU THINK, that Hedging is for noobs. Please, if you can't read or understand this thread don't reply It's so easy. I'm not afraid to confront with a loss. You are completely misunderstanding me. The hedge system is for minimalize the loss, not for avoid the confrontation. I really respect the other side, but please! It's very annoying, because we can't convince each other. Facts: The hedging system is working in many strategies: Nanningbob, Art Phantom (my hedging system) and a lot more...

Again: Please, if you can't read or understand this thread don't reply It's so easy.

Thank you
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
  • #42
  • Dec 18, 2010 10:04am Dec 18, 2010 10:04am
Quoting floydian666
The hedge system is for minimalize the loss
You can minimize the loss even more by closing the losing trade instead of nedging it.
  • #43
  • Jan 5, 2011 3:06pm Jan 5, 2011 3:06pm
.....yea! like a pound of meat, we could we could enjoy it and spit out the bone....hopefully we discover the bone before swallowing. We all wouldnt agree on a strategy and there souldnt be a course for alarm. When i read a tread I dont like, I just spit out the bone and move on to another meats. If I go live with a strategy I have not forward tested, THEN I'm swallowing the bone big time and that is trouble!!!.

Thanks by the way y'all, for your opinion.
  • #44
  • Jan 5, 2011 4:24pm Jan 5, 2011 4:24pm
This question just came to mind....

How long would you keep your loosing trade if the market keeps going against you? Assuming that a hedging trade is already on with the original(loosing ) trade.
  • #45
  • Jan 5, 2011 6:07pm Jan 5, 2011 6:07pm
Quoting josid
This question just came to mind....

How long would you keep your loosing trade if the market keeps going against you? Assuming that a hedging trade is already on with the original(loosing ) trade.
I would hedge the original trade at "-x" pips (I have to optimize the numbers) and than I hold it for 1 hour, 1 week, 1month, 1 year, 10 year... I don't know... It's like a closed position, but when the price returns, I can close the positions in 0 or in +1 pip. This is the plan. Here is a picture:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: hedge system.gif Size: 21 KB
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
  • #46
  • Jan 5, 2011 10:50pm Jan 5, 2011 10:50pm
Quoting floydian666
I would hedge the original trade at "-x" pips (I have to optimize the numbers) and than I hold it for 1 hour, 1 week, 1month, 1 year, 10 year... I don't know... It's like a closed position, but when the price returns, I can close the positions in 0 or in +1 pip. This is the plan. Here is a picture:
I see what floydian(thedevil) is doing and he either has balls of steal or he really is the devil.

I guess its the latter because I see no human way to keep track of every single trade that is currently being hedged against in a loss? hell i would have hundereds in a year or even 20 in a week... I would go crazy trying to keep track of which offsets which. So I guess since i'm not as smart or more lazy i'll end the loss with a small loss and go back in another day.
  • #47
  • Jan 6, 2011 12:46am Jan 6, 2011 12:46am
Quoting tommbstone
I see what floydian(thedevil) is doing and he either has balls of steal or he really is the devil.

I guess its the latter because I see no human way to keep track of every single trade that is currently being hedged against in a loss? hell i would have hundereds in a year or even 20 in a week... I would go crazy trying to keep track of which offsets which. So I guess since i'm not as smart or more lazy i'll end the loss with a small loss and go back in another day.

Take it easy tommbstone!

@floydian, there are several issues with waiting till forever. One is that the system will not be making money till...forever... which defeats the whole point of a money making system (Im assuming that there wouldnt be concurrent trades for the same symbol except the original and hedge)
  • #48
  • Edited 4:46am Jan 6, 2011 1:01am | Edited 4:46am
Help me understand your hedging mechanism because I don't see how it can be feasibly coded.

question is how you define a "second chance" and when do you allow your hedging trade to breakeven?

Scenario 1:
- Say you open a buy trade at 1.3150

- price goes to 1.3100 (you're -50 pips)

- you open a sell to hedge that buy. In a perfect world without spread, the sell hedge trade will be open at 1.3100.

- price move down 1 pip then come back up again. Is that the second chance? Shall I breakeven the hedge trade now? no?

- how about price move down 5 pips to 1.3095 then come back up to 1.3100? is that the second chance? breakeven now? no?

- how about price move down 20 pips to 1.3080 then come back up to 1.3100? Should I breakeven now? no?

- oh shit... now price is moving upwards and reach 1.3120. and now the buy trade is -30 pips while the sell trade is -20 pips.

- then price goes to 1.3151. that's +1 pip for the buy and -51 pips for the sell.

- close the buy now? yes? ok.. hmm... wait.. now I have a sell trade with -51 pips... oh I know.. I'll hedge it...

- cycle repeats while I pay broker commission, spread, swap...


Scenario 2:

to be continued...

[EDIT] I think I don't have to talk about scenario 2 or other cases. The key thing is defining what is considered a worthy, second chance. If you can articulate that, I can code it.
Programming for a better future.
  • #49
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:43am Jan 6, 2011 2:43am
Quoting BeLikeWater
Repeat with me: hedging is for noobs.... is for noobs.... and its a nonsense.

And I do it because i am afraid to confront myself with a loss.

If you think/see market has more chances to go up I buy with SL and TP.

If you think/see market has more chances to down I sell with SL and TP.

PD: Read "Trading in Zone" asap.

Everyone does not trade the same way. You choose to book losses per trade basis. Some prefer to do so only once with their entire account (or a substantial part of it) while booking large numbers of small profits meanwhile. Still others exist who...

If one does his homework well and finds a way to come out well on top while doing that, that does not make him a noobie. I have a similar system. I am well aware of the pitfalls and dangers but their probability is small enough for me to take the risk. I'm yet to be disappointed...sorry I do not know how to programme...

If you know how to programme, please, help the guy out.

Thank You.

King.
  • #50
  • Jan 6, 2011 7:01am Jan 6, 2011 7:01am
Here is another picture. I hope that, you can understand the system. Please ask me!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: hedge system2.gif Size: 24 KB
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
  • #51
  • Jan 6, 2011 10:36am Jan 6, 2011 10:36am
I don't understand. why is your +1 pip at a place that is over 20 pips from the opening?

the original trade is a buy?
all the 3 hedge trades are sell?

all the 3 hedge trades end up breakeven? How do you know they are ready to have their stop loss moved to break even? you still have not give me an indication of how you define "Second chance"
Programming for a better future.
  • #52
  • Edited 1:12pm Jan 6, 2011 12:16pm | Edited 1:12pm
The plus 20 pip is cause the spreads. Yes the original was buy, the hedges are sells... I'm working on a better method to open the hedge positions, and to filter out the market range... The second chance: We had a loser position, than we can close the loser in winner= We didn't lose money.
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
  • #53
  • Jan 6, 2011 1:49pm Jan 6, 2011 1:49pm
I have worked on your system and now I have something visual to explain the dilemma in it.

U can see in the balance/equity graph that the system in gallantly loosing. The reason for the loss is apparent on the chart. The yellow arrow was an original sell, the blue arrows are hedging buy trades. As the market moves sideways it will continue to open and close the hedging position loosing so much before the original trade closes after a few days, weeks or perhaps years lol. So its not as simple as hedging the trade and forgetting about it.

U could let me know if there is any of the rules not being followed.

N.B: the hedging trades were opened when the original trade lost 20 pips and they are closed when the loose 5pips and the original trade is @ -15pips

Thanks
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: BBBO2.gif Size: 9 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: bbbo1.gif Size: 20 KB
  • #54
  • Jan 6, 2011 1:55pm Jan 6, 2011 1:55pm
Your allowing only 5 pips of DD before closing the hedge? Is that the rule? That seems VERY tight and market noise can KILL a system that doesn't allow more room for traders to play.
  • #55
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:02pm Jan 6, 2011 2:02pm
Quoting Aja
Your allowing only 5 pips of DD before closing the hedge? Is that the rule? That seems VERY tight and market noise can KILL a system that doesn't allow more room for traders to play.
What parameters are better in your opinion for trades making 1or 5 pips. Tell me, I'll try it and upload the results......only takes few minutes. We're learning
  • #56
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:04pm Jan 6, 2011 2:04pm
And by the way, floydian's idea was to close it @ break-even.......u can imagine the result ...
  • #57
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:16pm Jan 6, 2011 2:16pm
I just tried hedging @ -40 pip of original trade and closed the hedging trades at -10pip. The results are not much different. On the chart below, the yellow arrow is the original sell trade. The blue arrows are the opened hedging trades
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: BBBO2.gif Size: 9 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: bbbo1.gif Size: 19 KB
  • #58
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:19pm Jan 6, 2011 2:19pm
Quoting josid
I have worked on your system and now I have something visual to explain the dilemma in it.

U can see in the balance/equity graph that the system in gallantly loosing. The reason for the loss is apparent on the chart. The yellow arrow was an original sell, the blue arrows are hedging buy trades. As the market moves sideways it will continue to open and close the hedging position loosing so much before the original trade closes after a few days, weeks or perhaps years lol. So its not as simple as hedging the trade and forgetting about it.

U could...
Thanks for the backtesting! You didn't use the BB runner filter. This is very important! As I said, I'm working on a better Hedge open idea... like open if the MA is -X pip far from the original trade... and so... Please give me some time
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
  • #59
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:23pm Jan 6, 2011 2:23pm
may I ask what the BB runner filter is? an indicator?
  • #60
  • Jan 6, 2011 2:35pm Jan 6, 2011 2:35pm
No. What is the BB runner?:

If the MA1 and the BB band run together or, nearly the same way.
Here is a picture:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: bb runner.gif Size: 21 KB
Develop the old ways! Backtest with 25% quality... JOKE!
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