What is a 'large' position? | Forex Factory

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What is a 'large' position?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 3, 2010 1:35am Dec 3, 2010 1:35am
When trading mid day (U.S.) during periods of low volume and low volatility I've heard "experts" say not to trade because the market is too easily and commonly manipulated. Does anyone have experience with this?

I would like to trade up to $100/pip ($100 for each point of market movement) and am wondering if that could possibly create a target in this giant market. If so, would spreading the trade over a few different broker platforms (non-ecn) be a safer way to trade? I've heard this is common for people trading with larger sums. Just not sure what "larger" is.

Rex
  • #2
  • Dec 3, 2010 1:49am Dec 3, 2010 1:49am
Just not sure what "larger" is.

Rex[/quote]

you can calculate,2% of acc. per trade
Money is made by sitting, not trading. Jesse L. Livermore
  • #3
  • Dec 3, 2010 1:53am Dec 3, 2010 1:53am
Hi Rex,

$100/pip is just tiny on this market, my trading volume is range from 5m to 10m each trade.

well, for safer. That really depend on where you trade. But 1thing i should warn you that , No mt4 shit , i don't care what the hell broker it is..unless you want to give them yr money.

cheers.
  • #4
  • Dec 3, 2010 1:57am Dec 3, 2010 1:57am
OK, good info, thanks guys.

Rex
  • #5
  • Dec 3, 2010 2:14am Dec 3, 2010 2:14am
why no mt4? what platform instead? currenex? sorry for ignorance.
Lord, Liar, Lunatic. Those are only 3 options to Christ's diety claim.
  • #6
  • Dec 3, 2010 2:50am Dec 3, 2010 2:50am
anybody there
  • #7
  • Dec 3, 2010 2:51am Dec 3, 2010 2:51am
if you trade pretty liquid instruments like the eurusd or the s&p 500 emini, you do not face manipulation that easy. it is too expensive to shake those pairs around too much. if you stick to exotics, it is way more risky.

i join the no mt4 side.
mt4 offers pretty nice opportunities for brokers. there are many features included which offer them total control of your platform. monitoring your active trade window e.g. no problem, so seeing your setup for example. this mostly would be an issue if you are too profitable and growing.

i prefer using my own charting. olike esignal- and use a brokers dom panel to enter trades.
  • #8
  • Edited 3:10am Dec 3, 2010 3:08am | Edited 3:10am
Good points. I have noticed this in the past and taken to using separate platforms for my trade execution. All my charting, back testing and strategy creation is done separately but it sounds like you and yster have taken it to the next level with independent charting. Very interesting and informative.

Rex
  • #9
  • Dec 3, 2010 3:55am Dec 3, 2010 3:55am
Quoting Rex Tradewell
Good points. I have noticed this in the past and taken to using separate platforms for my trade execution. All my charting, back testing and strategy creation is done separately but it sounds like you and yster have taken it to the next level with independent charting. Very interesting and informative.

Rex
what complete crap!

if that is true then i want people to post chart comparisons between each other where one 'dirty cheating mt4 chart' is truly different to everyone elses 'dirty cheating mt4 chart'. that would be a proven case closed!

with everyone so goddamn paranoid all the time i'm sure it would be easy to prove and would have been done a LONG time ago. i haven't come across ANY of this... ever! every BROKER will have slightly different charts, but a few pipettes or so does not a scam make! that's a bullcrap comparison in the first place. i have never ever seen a chart from one client compared with another of the same broker where things were different.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #10
  • Dec 3, 2010 3:57am Dec 3, 2010 3:57am
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
i join the no mt4 side.
mt4 offers pretty nice opportunities for brokers. there are many features included which offer them total control of your platform. monitoring your active trade window e.g. no problem, so seeing your setup for example. this mostly would be an issue if you are too profitable and growing.
but where is the proof of this??? i swear the illuminati created mt4!
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #11
  • Dec 3, 2010 4:38am Dec 3, 2010 4:38am
Quoting nubcake
but where is the proof of this??? i swear the illuminati created mt4!

good point. now take your medicine.
  • #12
  • Dec 3, 2010 11:45am Dec 3, 2010 11:45am
Quoting nubcake
what complete crap!

if that is true then i want people to post chart comparisons between each other where one 'dirty cheating mt4 chart' is truly different to everyone elses 'dirty cheating mt4 chart'....
Your Complete Quote:


what complete crap!

if that is true then i want people to post chart comparisons between each other where one 'dirty cheating mt4 chart' is truly different to everyone elses 'dirty cheating mt4 chart'. that would be a proven case closed!

with everyone so goddamn paranoid all the time i'm sure it would be easy to prove and would have been done a LONG time ago. i haven't come across ANY of this... ever! every BROKER will have slightly different charts, but a few pipettes or so does not a scam make! that's a bullcrap comparison in the first place. i have never ever seen a chart from one client compared with another of the same broker where things were different.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow... my post seems to have made you very upset.

I think I should further point out that I too have monitored and compared various charts over substantial periods and rarely is their any major differences. As a matter of fact, no forex broker would survive if their charts were wildly different than everyone elses, especially if consistently in favor of the broker but that doesnt mean that every FX broker is pure as the driven snow. A few things that every trader should consider:

Quote
Between 2001 and 2006 the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has prosecuted more than 80 cases involving the defrauding of more than 23,000 customers who lost $350 million. From 2001 to 2007, about 26,000 people lost $460 million in forex frauds.
Certainly this is not an indightment on the entire industry but with over $1 billion in fraud I think it is reasonaly prudent to exercise some caution when investing our hard earned money into a largely un-regulated, zero sum market. Especially when any broker/dealer can purchase legal software off the internet within minutes that is designed to cheat forex customers with slippage.

Just ask the IKON GM customers who received several hundred thousand dollars in judgement if they were "paranoid" when they became concerned their mt4 platform was working against them.

By the way nubcake, cursing, explanation points, bold and capital letters does not a good point make. I would appreciate hearing more from the more experienced members on this excellent forum.

Rex
  • #13
  • Dec 3, 2010 12:03pm Dec 3, 2010 12:03pm
oh well gee, let me take my medicine and sit in the corner... with my tinfoil hat on.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #14
  • Dec 3, 2010 12:35pm Dec 3, 2010 12:35pm
Quoting Rex Tradewell
When trading mid day (U.S.) during periods of low volume and low volatility I've heard "experts" say not to trade because the market is too easily and commonly manipulated. Does anyone have experience with this?

I would like to trade up to $100/pip ($100 for each point of market movement) and am wondering if that could possibly create a target in this giant market. If so, would spreading the trade over a few different broker platforms (non-ecn) be a safer way to trade? I've heard this is common for people trading with larger sums. Just not...

lol....1 million order is very very very small

you dont have anything to worry about

if you are trading 1mio orders you should NOT be on a non econ borker....go to a bank dude. dbfx or citi
  • #15
  • Dec 3, 2010 12:53pm Dec 3, 2010 12:53pm
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
if you trade pretty liquid instruments like the eurusd or the s&p 500 emini, you do not face manipulation that easy. it is too expensive to shake those pairs around too much. if you stick to exotics, it is way more risky.

i join the no mt4 side.
mt4 offers pretty nice opportunities for brokers. there are many features included which offer them total control of your platform. monitoring your active trade window e.g. no problem, so seeing your setup for example. this mostly would be an issue if you are too profitable and growing.

i prefer...
Choose a regulated broker, with no dealing desk, problem solved!
  • #16
  • Dec 3, 2010 6:07pm Dec 3, 2010 6:07pm
Quoting Marcell
Choose a regulated broker, with no dealing desk, problem solved!
MT4 with a STP broker would be safe would it not? Thus a true 100% no dealing desk, there would be no reason for them to trade against you since they have already made their money on the spread.
  • #17
  • Dec 4, 2010 1:19am Dec 4, 2010 1:19am
Quoting Rex Tradewell
When trading mid day (U.S.) during periods of low volume and low volatility I've heard "experts" say not to trade because the market is too easily and commonly manipulated. Does anyone have experience with this?
No.

Quoting Rex Tradewell
I would like to trade up to $100/pip ($100 for each point of market movement) and am wondering if that could possibly create a target in this giant market.
Not really. There are still orders much bigger than $100/pip taking place in the market between banks/hedge funds. With between $1 and $100/pip you are still not a big player.

Just trade with a reputable ECN. If your account is big enough, trade at an institutional level (e.g. with a bank).
  • #18
  • Dec 4, 2010 1:43am Dec 4, 2010 1:43am
Mid-day market manipulation only affect intraday traders. Buy and Hold traders aren't concerned with mid-day manipulation. It is true to 'be careful' when trading during low volatility because any wealthy trader and/or bank can influence market direction and/or spike the market.

Also, during low volatility in the market, the large banks and/or wealthy individuals are not your only threat. You have to keep watch for your broker, especially if you're broker is considered a 'Market Maker'. Most market makers tend to influence their own pool of clients by creating false moves in the market, such as unexplained price spikes or early stop order execution. Just remember, most of the mid-day, low volatility manipulation is done by market makers. If you're with a good broker, you'll not have to worry about this issue.
  • #19
  • Edited 11:03am Dec 4, 2010 3:00am | Edited 11:03am
Quoting Jhig
Mid-day market manipulation only affect intraday traders. Buy and Hold traders aren't concerned with mid-day manipulation. It is true to 'be careful' when trading during low volatility because any wealthy trader and/or bank can influence market direction and/or spike the market.

Also, during low volatility in the market, the large banks and/or wealthy individuals are not your only threat. You have to keep watch for your broker, especially if you're broker is considered a 'Market Maker'. Most market makers tend to influence their own pool of clients...
Do you mean illiquid markets or low volume instead of volatility?

Market Maker retail brokers move the market? Or do you mean MM/Dealers, sovereigns, corporations, real money, hedge funds, quasi-officials etc?

I think you may be confused.

The market is manipulated, that is without question. I think it would depend on the pair which you'r dealing through, but I'd say anything in the 10M+ is a good sized order something like... 50-100M+ is the kind of thing that you would need to work into the market. But again this just depends... what time are you dealing, what pair, etc....

Off market quotes or unexplained spikes in price that you can confirm only happened on your 'market maker' brokers platform/price feed should be questioned, if not taken care of... change your broker pronto.
  • #20
  • Edited 7:42am Dec 4, 2010 5:23am | Edited 7:42am
Quoting Jhig
Mid-day market manipulation only affect intraday traders. Buy and Hold traders aren't concerned with mid-day manipulation. It is true to 'be careful' when trading during low volatility because any wealthy trader and/or bank can influence market direction and/or spike the market.

Also, during low volatility in the market, the large banks and/or wealthy individuals are not your only threat. You have to keep watch for your broker, especially if you're broker is considered a 'Market Maker'. Most market makers tend to influence their own pool of clients...
Why would markets be easier to manipulate under low volatility? I'd say manipulation is a function of volume, not volatility. Here I'm talking about real market manipulation, and not unfair practices including brokers' deviations from fair prices as a consequence of stop-hunting.

Anyway, when trading large sizes, I'd stay far away from retail brokers and bucketshops. Instead, I'd prefer to trade interbank markets with multiple liquidity providers.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered back in
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