It's kind of curious...the war between price and indicators | Page 2 | Forex Factory

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It's kind of curious...the war between price and indicators

  • #21
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:23pm Nov 23, 2010 10:23pm
what has always bugged me is... is it :

Quote
95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price. This is where the pot of gold are buried.


or is it

Quote
95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price. This is where the pot of gold are buried.

strikes me as ambiguous.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #22
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:28pm Nov 23, 2010 10:28pm
Quoting Noloqy
I strongly believe that PA is hyped here on FF
I noticed this same.

Quote
Trading only in the present with no price past.
There is hardly any "present price". Once price moves by one tick, the previous tick and everything before it is considered "past price".

Every chart trader is basing his trading decisions on past information.

Quoting PeterE
Can you build a strategy around this truth!?
I'm afraid the statement doesn't reveal any new/usable information.

Saying "95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price." is like saying "if you flip a coin it will come out heads 50% of the time and tail 50% of the time": It doesn't help you predict future coin flipping outcomes.

I challenge every trader or so called trading expert to prove otherwise.

By the way, the sum of 95% + less than 5% (which is what the statement says) = smaller than 100%. What is the rest? Price just flying off the chart?
  • #23
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:35pm Nov 23, 2010 10:35pm
Quoting nubcake
what has always bugged me is... is it :
The first one.

Quoting Marv
By the way, the sum of 95% + less than 5% (which is what the statement says) = smaller than 100%. What is the rest? Price just flying off the chart? http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s...m/big_grin.gif
Price open, price doesn't move up nor down, price close.... it looks like this ( - ) I love your sarcasm by the way
  • #24
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:36pm Nov 23, 2010 10:36pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
No, I wasn't referring to Intu... I was talking about Four Kids. Four kids' very frustrated with me
Right, right. I've taken notice xD
But I've yet to see him post here so we should be in clear water and ready to continue sailing smooth on this thread!
  • #25
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:38pm Nov 23, 2010 10:38pm
Quoting Marv
I'm afraid the statement doesn't reveal any new/usable information.

Saying "95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price." is like saying "if you flip a coin it will come out heads 50% of the time and tail 50% of the time": It doesn't help you predict future coin flipping outcomes.

I challenge every trader or so called trading expert to prove otherwise.
I guess you're not ready yet.
I'll accept your challenge,... but you won't be able to afford it
  • #26
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:43pm Nov 23, 2010 10:43pm
Quoting Marv
There is hardly any "present price". Once price moves by one tick, the previous tick and everything before it is considered "past price".

Every chart trader is basing his trading decisions on past information.
True. Very true.
How about relative time? The closest possible thing would be ticks and the seconds/one minute charts. The closest relative thing to no past price.

Take that parameter and roll with it!
  • #27
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:49pm Nov 23, 2010 10:49pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
The first one.



Price open, price doesn't move up nor down, price close.... it looks like this ( - ) I love your sarcasm by the way
oh snap! answers to both the questions that had been bothering me (my q and marv's q). wasn't expecting an answer, so thx heaps. it's the little things that get ya, and those little bastards were irking me. no more
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #28
  • Nov 23, 2010 10:50pm Nov 23, 2010 10:50pm
hmmm..................taps fingers
Attached Image
  • #29
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:00pm Nov 23, 2010 11:00pm
Quoting PeterE
hmmm..................taps fingers
There's no way that's real

Price always has to have an open, right?
Even ticks have an open if you look at it like and open and close all in one go xD

What am I seeing here, anyways? xD
  • #30
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:03pm Nov 23, 2010 11:03pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
No, I wasn't referring to Intu... I was talking about Four Kids. Four kids' very frustrated with me
CP I would like to invite you to my new thread
Time hides Nothing
  • #31
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:05pm Nov 23, 2010 11:05pm
forgot, thats a HLC bar

Quoting vx13
There's no way that's real

Price always has to have an open, right?
Even ticks have an open if you look at it like and open and close all in one go xD

What am I seeing here, anyways? xD
  • #32
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:09pm Nov 23, 2010 11:09pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
CP I would like to invite you to my new thread
I wanted to post this over there but would not dare interrupt any pure rage comments xD
Here it is: Greatest FF win EVER.
  • #33
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:09pm Nov 23, 2010 11:09pm
Quote
I dare anyone on this entire planet to prove this observation wrong; 95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price. This is where the pot of gold are buried

I dare whoever let out this bull**** statement proves it right.......

PS: Who cares if you're a so called naked trader or not.......... as long as you're making money.
Trading is the game of fear and greed.
  • #34
  • Nov 23, 2010 11:17pm Nov 23, 2010 11:17pm
Quoting PeterE
forgot, thats a HLC bar
I'm trying to be open minded... is that possible? xD
  • #35
  • Edited 12:20am Nov 24, 2010 12:06am | Edited 12:20am
Good discussions, and some good contributions (I'm a fan of 7Bit's current work)...

Can we use this? -
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...06&postcount=1

with-
95% of the time, Price will close above or below its Opening price. Less than 5% of the time it will close at its opening price.

but perhaps use the Open Price (of our time frame or session, whatever that may be) instead of S/R level as Spectre suggested?

A somewhat trend following approach...but only based upon what is happening now... compared to that Open Price.

Just thinking...
  • #36
  • Nov 24, 2010 12:49am Nov 24, 2010 12:49am
From my experience trading on indicators is quite dodgy sometimes they work sometimes they don't. The key with indicators is using them in conjuction with other conditions. Such as trend, support resistance, volitility, price action etc. An indicator for some people is just used as a guide to confirm there convictions to pull the trigger.

Just a spin on indicators. I truly believe indicators are a double edged sword. What i mean is indicators simply can provide liquidity for the big banks and hedge funds trying to take our (the retail traders) money. Now I understand that liquidity here in the forex market is quite solid but have you ever noticed that the perfect setup is not so perfect in the real world. If us as retail traders ramp up or down the price we are giving a better deal to the banks and hedge funds that want to get out which obviously causes the market to reverse sharply due to the huge orders they are exiting. If I had a 50 million dollar position and wanted to exit my trade I personally would wait for a perfect setup and sell into the liquidity.

My anology to this would be using indicators is like swimming in shark infested waters. The sharks see what we are doing (hedge funds , banks see the indicator setups). If they are hungry we get eaten (hedge funds banks selling into the liquidity we create). If there not hungry we get by with a succesful trade and think wow indicators do work and we continue to use them. Since sometimes they do work we continue to use them in benefit to the sharks that feed selectively in order not to scare us away from using indicators which would not allow the sharks to feed.

Thats why when I trade short term I trade naked and also why I like limit orders because they can't see what I am doing.

I feel like a conspiracy theorist.LOL . Thats why though that I believe using several conditions with the indicators will make the trade more probable. Especially the trend (banks and hedge funds trade with the trend) . They also create trends through market manipulation And end trends when the biters stop biting and then reverse them in there favor.

Feel free to disagree. I know a lot of people are succesful using indicators.
My trades are 100% profitable 65% of the time!
  • #37
  • Nov 24, 2010 1:35am Nov 24, 2010 1:35am
Quoting jimmyjames79
From my experience trading on indicators is quite dodgy sometimes they work sometimes they don't. The key with indicators is using them in conjuction with other conditions. Such as trend, support resistance, volitility, price action etc. An indicator for some people is just used as a guide to confirm there convictions to pull the trigger.

Just a spin on indicators. I truly believe indicators are a double edged sword. What i mean is indicators simply can provide liquidity for the big banks and hedge funds trying to take our (the retail traders)...
With all due respect Sir, unless you're somebody then no-one cares about what you're doing.....
Trading is the game of fear and greed.
  • #38
  • Nov 24, 2010 1:49am Nov 24, 2010 1:49am
Quoting Fx chartist
With all due respect Sir, unless you're somebody then no-one cares about what you're doing.....
I understand but keep in mind that when you see a set up for you to make money thousands of other nobodies are buying or selling as well. Thousands of nobodies buying on the same setup is the reason why the set up works in the first place. We can as retail traders move the market. If we have the capability of moving the market hedgefunds and banks have the ability to sell or buy into the liquidity we create. We are constantly being manipulated by bigger money.

We move in unison. Our actions are predictable.

Thanks for your insight. With all due respect to you as well.

Hopefully one day we will be somebody.
My trades are 100% profitable 65% of the time!
  • #39
  • Nov 24, 2010 4:52am Nov 24, 2010 4:52am
Quoting Intu
but perhaps use the Open Price (of our time frame or session, whatever that may be) instead of S/R level as Spectre suggested?

A somewhat trend following approach...but only based upon what is happening now... compared to that Open Price.

Just thinking...
The rabbit hole is far deeper depending on your knowledge and experience about the markets.

Keep going down the rabbit hole, you are on the right trail... http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s...im/winking.gif

When you get to the end of the hole, I will never judge you whether you would want to share it to the world. But don't presume what you intend to do because you are not there yet. Once you get there, you will meet a great morale dilemma... And I know, you too will act accordingly. The pioneers never disclosed it, but I know they too somewhat found it. You will find other ways to help the community and people in need.

I believe Gann found it, and he was right that he never disclosed it because of the impact it will have. Other pioneers saw this impact, but never really did mention it.

They will give you clues, but never will disclose it. This is because if you are the righteous person, the universe will give it to you. You will find what you are looking for. You will find your way, naturally. But if you are not the right person, there is no way of you finding it out. But then there are those that will serve as an example, that one may stumble upon it. Like a Jesse Livermore (the relationship of income and suicide, I think there is plenty enough in the media).

Sounds a bit too New age and mystic... no, it's everywhere surrounding you. Kids/People with so much money who are suicidal, crash and burn, out of control, out of balance, so much power, that they don't know how to handle it. But the morale dilemma goes far greater than one's sanity... you'll see when you get there http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s.../yim/happy.gif http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s...im/winking.gif
  • #40
  • Nov 24, 2010 6:06am Nov 24, 2010 6:06am
Quoting jimmyjames79
I understand but keep in mind that when you see a set up for you to make money thousands of other nobodies are buying or selling as well. Thousands of nobodies buying on the same setup is the reason why the set up works in the first place. We can as retail traders move the market. If we have the capability of moving the market hedgefunds and banks have the ability to sell or buy into the liquidity we create. We are constantly being manipulated by bigger money.

We move in unison. Our actions are predictable.

Thanks for your insight. With...
Do you see what I'm seeing in my 1M chart ... ? No? then forget it!
Trading is the game of fear and greed.
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