There are no secret patterns and there will never be one | Page 15 | Forex Factory

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Attachments: There are no secret patterns and there will never be one
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There are no secret patterns and there will never be one

  • #281
  • Nov 15, 2010 11:00am Nov 15, 2010 11:00am
Ha-pattern is awesome.
  • #282
  • Nov 15, 2010 11:02am Nov 15, 2010 11:02am
Quoting vosterfxandy
Guys, this thread is getting ridiculous.

But how do we know it's getting ridiculous?

We don't.

But do we KNOW we don't?

Lololol!!!
  • #283
  • Nov 15, 2010 11:17am Nov 15, 2010 11:17am
Quoting esuffw
Whenever you have ordered movements in the market, there is always a big hand (a few big hands) behind the move.
What, to you, constitutes "order" in a market?
  • #284
  • Nov 15, 2010 2:28pm Nov 15, 2010 2:28pm
Quoting eurotrash
What, to you, constitutes "order" in a market?
No such thing as order in forex.

Actually, "the forex order" doesn't sound like a bad name for a scamming forex EA, lol!
  • #285
  • Nov 15, 2010 2:39pm Nov 15, 2010 2:39pm
Excellent OP esuffw. Lot of sensible advice there however I take an exception your advice of a small stop loss.

As newcomer to trading, I find that a lot of time I miss the optimal entry point for a trade and therefore if my stop loss is small (4 - 10 pips) then just the inherent volatility of the forex markets defeats me.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #286
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:23pm Nov 15, 2010 9:23pm
Quoting eurotrash
What, to you, constitutes "order" in a market?
Hey Eurotrash

Do you know S and R's are block orders??

Breakouts can either be: Removed block or consumed block

Dont forget, price is a mere shift of the bid and ask range.

Hope it helps
Life is a school for the soul
  • #287
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:31pm Nov 15, 2010 9:31pm
Quoting fxvoilaaa
No such thing as order in forex.

Actually, "the forex order" doesn't sound like a bad name for a scamming forex EA, lol!
Hey fxvoilaa

There are times when there is order. Not prefect order, but "ordered" enough to gain an edge. I am not a fan to both extrmes view to the market:

1.) Random Walk
2.) Ordered

For me the truth lies in between the two. There are times when you are just trading total noise, but there are also times you know something is happening right now.

Also, dont worry about the scamming forex EA. I will make sure noone buys it:

IF SOMEONE (INCLUDING ME) EVER INTEND TO SELL AN EA ON FF, PLEASE, DONT BUY IT!!!

IT IS BCOS THEY/I COULDNT MAKE MY INCOME FROM TRADING AND THEREFORE IT IS MOST LIKELY A FAILED EA BY A FAILED TRADER!! (PLEASE REMIND ME THIS WHEN I FAILED AS A TRADER, NEVER KNOW WHEN THE DAY WILL COME)
Life is a school for the soul
  • #288
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:37pm Nov 15, 2010 9:37pm
Quoting Traderji
Excellent OP esuffw. Lot of sensible advice there however I take an exception your advice of a small stop loss.

As newcomer to trading, I find that a lot of time I miss the optimal entry point for a trade and therefore if my stop loss is small (4 - 10 pips) then just the inherent volatility of the forex markets defeats me.
Welcome Traderji

Dont forget volatility can be very different during different TIMES, PRICES LOCATIONS and PAIRS.

Also, if you find it hard to place super tight stop loss, reduce your trading size and enlarge your stop loss. Afterall its about the % on risk. But you will need to be more aggressive on your prymid to gain the same return.

Be sure to ask anything here, a lot of good traders willing to share on this thread.

Good trading to you
Life is a school for the soul
  • #289
  • Nov 15, 2010 11:51pm Nov 15, 2010 11:51pm
there are patterns which repeat...but you shouldn't enter each time it appears...

one of them has been discussed in this forum's trading systems section...unfortunately, they were not using proper filters and finally concluded that it is not a reliable pattern...but they are wrong..
  • #290
  • Nov 16, 2010 12:04am Nov 16, 2010 12:04am
Quoting esuffw
Seems like nobody has taken up the task. Anyway, some tips to get the lazy brains started:

BLOCK ORDER really is the best name for what it is. Here is why

BLOCK ORDERS BLOCKS PRICES, AND GIVES A ORDERED MARKET.

Do you see the connection???? No???
thanks again esuff, I trade SR so love all this block stuff it fits in nicely with supply and demand info also, thank you.
  • #291
  • Nov 16, 2010 12:07am Nov 16, 2010 12:07am
Quoting pride1760
there are patterns which repeat...but you shouldn't enter each time it appears...

one of them has been discussed in this forum's trading systems section...unfortunately, they were not using proper filters and finally concluded that it is not a reliable pattern...but they are wrong..
That is so true pride, there are plenty of people on FF who dis all sorts of chart pattern methods because they don't do the work necessary to identify and maximise the best setups.
  • #292
  • Nov 16, 2010 4:08am Nov 16, 2010 4:08am
Quoting esuffw
Hey Eurotrash

Do you know S and R's are block orders??

Breakouts can either be: Removed block or consumed block

Dont forget, price is a mere shift of the bid and ask range.

Hope it helps
Ive had second thoughts about this.The market maker(large bank?)has a large buy order on its books.The market is in a long downward trend.The market maker cant just go to market with this order just incase price starts heading north leaving them holding the baby so to speak.So they divide the order into smaller block orders.They place their first order at price A.The price comes down to this point where it bounces off this price area.The sell orders abbsorbing their block order.The selling pressure is still strong though so price breaks through this level.The market maker then sets up another block order at a lower price B.The price then comes down to this level where the price is stopped again by their order.The selling is slowing down a bit so may start heading north again,but when it reaches point A it should hit resistance at this level leaving price in a range between point A and point B.All long term indicators are still calling it a down trend so in theory price could break through point B.So they just set another block order at alower price and repeat.Am i getting warmer?
  • #293
  • Nov 16, 2010 4:34am Nov 16, 2010 4:34am
Quoting esuffw
Hey Eurotrash

Do you know S and R's are block orders??

Breakouts can either be: Removed block or consumed block

Dont forget, price is a mere shift of the bid and ask range.

Hope it helps
I don't know that and I would argue that that's not necessarily always the case. But then I guess it depends how you define S/R. I'd argue that some "resistances" are simply caused by thinning buyers, large buyers who bought at the beginning dumping their longs, new shorts, all combining to stop price at an area. And as you mentioned, "protection" of certain prices (though I don't know how often this occurs). I also like the auction theory concept of price excesses, short term and long term value, and imo if people's concept of value hasn't changed then the same price excess can be "rejected" by buyers/sellers entering big there (in the same way you might stock up on your favourite consumables when they go on sale...). Wait, are we talking about S/R in ranges on non-range S/R? I'm interested in what you have to say about blocks though, tbh I haven't given them that much thought, or at least not in those terms.

I view breakouts in the same way as you I think, except rather than thinking of block orders being consumed or removed I just think of it as sell-side liquidity being consumed or removed (in an upward breakout).
  • #294
  • Nov 16, 2010 6:39am Nov 16, 2010 6:39am
Ofcourse due to nature of market no one system works. MAs work pretty well, only if 0.2% of your account is at stake on it per day.

Combine 19 System together as is said in one of the threads on this forum to achieve -3% to 10% per month (That's all what's achievable).

MAs work!! Check out EUR/USD D1, WMA(65) EMA(3) 14 Sep - 4 Oct. Precise Entry, Precise Exit. They multiplied your account by 20x at full risk.

Everything works and everything fails. Question is "What timeframe"?

Thanks,
C-B4-H
  • #295
  • Nov 16, 2010 8:54am Nov 16, 2010 8:54am
Quoting DemoForever
Ive had second thoughts about this.The market maker(large bank?)has a large buy order on its books.The market is in a long downward trend.The market maker cant just go to market with this order just incase price starts heading north leaving them holding the baby so to speak.So they divide the order into smaller block orders.They place their first order at price A.The price comes down to this point where it bounces off this price area.The sell orders abbsorbing their block order.The selling pressure is still strong though so price breaks through...

DemoForever..you might ever seen in this forum a picture of a huge room in the UBS Bank, where there is hundreds of FX acct executives filled in that room. Each this bank desk trader handling 10-20 client traders like us, and they separate each client trader like us by the type of currency that we are trading whether we buy or sell.

The bank/big broker computer will tallies for each pair of currency and also the number of client traders trading as well, as well as type of trade that we execute be it selling or buying. For any that we're selling the bank are buying and for our buying the bank is selling and in addition to the spread that we have to pay either market execute or pending order.

So there aint edge whatsover in the trading forex. What we can expect is just like surfing, you wait patiently for the wave and wind and be prepare with good surfing gears. When the huge wave come (central bank intervention) then you get the edge in the direction of wave that you must surf and not against. This is the real what so called edge (as George Soros instructed his Forex Champion, in the Quantum Fund by the name Mr. Drukenmiller to go to the "Jugular vein", they're not trade everyday and most money goes to investment like buying mining, factory and banks in the emerging market countries). This is the definition of edge when Soros shorting Cable pair and make $2 billion against the Bank of England intervention of Cable. Other wise there aint no edge whatsoever. For us there is no edge by definition, we all a small time gold digger with scoop and hoe for a fews ounces, and after years of digging can enjoy mostly for butter and breads with warn soups and steak.
  • #296
  • Nov 16, 2010 11:34am Nov 16, 2010 11:34am
Quoting kundrit
DemoForever..you might ever seen in this forum a picture of a huge room in the UBS Bank, where there is hundreds of FX acct executives filled in that room. Each this bank desk trader handling 10-20 client traders like us, and they separate each client trader like us by the type of currency that we are trading whether we buy or sell.

The bank/big broker computer will tallies for each pair of currency and also the number of client traders trading as well, as well as type of trade that we execute be it selling or buying. For any that we're selling...
For arguements sake we are clients at the same bank.We are both trading the same currency.The trend is down all indicators,chart patterns are telling us to sell.The bank then recieves a very large buy order that would take out all the sellers at our bank and still leave most of the order on their books.If you were privy to this information would you still want to sell this currency?I dont know anything for sure i am just thinking out loud,but if we knew how price reacts when these large orders hit the market wouldnt this give us an edge?
  • #297
  • Nov 16, 2010 11:36am Nov 16, 2010 11:36am
Quoting DemoForever
For arguements sake we are clients at the same bank.We are both trading the same currency.The trend is down all indicators,chart patterns are telling us to sell.The bank then recieves a very large buy order that would take out all the sellers at our bank and still leave most of the order on their books.If you were privy to this information would you still want to sell this currency?I dont know anything for sure i am just thinking out loud,but if we knew how price reacts when these large orders hit the market wouldnt this give us an edge?
In the stock world, it's called level 3. Only market makers have access to this. It would be amazing to see where current orders are sitting, wouldn't it. I'd be damned to hell if they don't play off this information.

Can't believe it's not considered 'insider information' because they have a huge advantage with that...
  • #298
  • Nov 16, 2010 12:38pm Nov 16, 2010 12:38pm
Quoting kundrit
What we can expect is just like surfing, you wait patiently for the wave and wind and be prepare with good surfing gears. When the huge wave come (central bank intervention) then you get the edge in the direction of wave that you must surf and not against.
  • #299
  • Nov 16, 2010 9:32pm Nov 16, 2010 9:32pm
Dear all

Seems to me this block order topic catches many attention. Mostly good attentions for discussion on this thread, but after recieving some e-mails it really puts me off writing more about it.

I might have also offended some who make their income selling EA's and strategies on this site. I won't say sorry if I will distroy your income, but its enough to piss me off.

B4 I go, give you all the some ideas regarding blocks.

Wedges, Trendlines, Round tops-bottoms....... Think about them. Think about the limit orders formation. Some are formed randomly, but some are not. To separte the two, you need to see whats happening inside the formation. (Go to a lower time frame.) Impulsive waves are very useful at checking the mm's incentive.

Look at what happened before some big breakouts, you will see strong ACCUM or DISTRU. I kid you not, sometimes the MM knows when to breakout and when to not, afterall its their market.

Less retail guys will get slaughtered if they spend some more time on market structure + the operations of market makers + trade management. (Go get a read on ROASO and start thinking "IF I WAS THE MM, WHAT WOULD I DO TO MAX MY PROFITS" Think about what you would do, if you had one piece of inside info, but you haven't collected enough holdings etc...)

After a very busy period, I came back to write. But it seems this time I get some S*IT thrown at me. I will call my stop here.

To all dear new traders, there are enough to get started. I wish all the new comers good luck on your journey and please DEMO UNTIL YOU CAN TRADE!!! Do get a read on the thread I suggested.

Also, beware of the forecasting trap. Afterall we are only peggybackers, peggy backing the elephants (HOT FUNDS MONEY) (Using Trend following), tigers (MMs) (Market Structure) and the bosses (C.BANKS AND FED) (A bit of both).

Good trading to all
Life is a school for the soul
  • #300
  • Nov 17, 2010 12:01am Nov 17, 2010 12:01am
Please don't take any notice of the trolls and idiots on FF esuffw. You do a great job mate.

Cheers.
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