Can MT4 Brokers see your EA/Indi

Hi all

I wonder if anyone has looked into the possibility whether
it is technically possible for a mt4 broker to see your ea or indicator etc?

I am not talking of intent here - just the technical possibility if a broker really wanted to, could they view/ pull your indicator/ ea code?

Is there a standard setting on the MT4 server side that allows a broker to do this, or perhaps a third party plugin available to them?

The reason for my starting this thread is that I have read about as well as personally experienced instances where an EA/ Strategy works well initially returning consistent profit, then suddenly one day it starts to backfire.

Now, I appreciate the fact that this could simply be a change in behavior for the traded currency pair, or there could be other reasonable explanations. But then again, could it be deliberate?

I have been told that the MT4 server side setting allow a broker to isolate and report accounts that are returning more than a certain specified value of return. Question is, how do the brokers make use of this reporting feature?

There are bigger repercussions possible, for example theft of intellectual property, targeting of overtly profitable accounts by introducing mechanisms to specifically bog down successful strategies, etc. Not saying that this happens, but it would be good hear other peoples experiences in this regard, and perhaps get feedback from techies whether such a thing could be possible technically, and if so, what can the traders do to counter it.

Please post your thoughts/ experiences.

Metatrader has many infinished areas as far as I am concerned. Even Cgris at Gotrader tells you he has been advised to shutdown and restart his server side to 'optimise' the system.
I have found similar, I restart at least once per day, clear historical charts daily as EA settings are stored there also as you may have seen an EA order can be placed long after removing the actual EA.

There are definately some erroneous functions of MT4. Manipulated data and spreads alone can cause complete falure of an EA.

I only noticed again this week in testing using exactly the same test dates and exactly the same fixed spread on WTI show completely different results.

Having said the above we do not know the future and what spreads and data are about to come our way so what worked yesterday will not always have a high probability of working today or tomorrow.

I have also found you need a good system to efficiently run a good EA. Your basic home PC is usually not up to the pace and also loaded with so much other junk. A VPS is not always gauranteed of being up to the task, you have to take the hosts word for it.

I finally have an EA that works but I work constantly to have it work to its optimum.

Hi msoood,

Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Costas and I am an employee of a regulated Forex Broker named Trading Point of Financial Instruments Limited. I was intrigued by your queries above and have been researching the matter with my colleagues as to whether it is possible for an MT4 broker to view/pull its Client’s indicators/EA codes.

Our conclusion is that it is NOT possible for a Broker to view/pull its Client’s indicators/EA codes. It is however possible in some scenarios for a broker to simply recognize when a trader may be using an EA, mainly in the following 2 scenarios:

 

1. The EA changes the TP/SL/amends limit orders, at a rate that would appear to be inhumanely possible (i.e. within split seconds)

1. The EA has a consistent comment, usually left in by its creator, which may indicate to the broker that it is being left in by an EA – e.g. a signature of the creator

I hope this has helped. Please let me know if there is anything more you wish to know regarding this matter via this thread or alternatively email me with your query at [email protected]

I've looked into this before and while I feel it is impossible, there are several things you can do to monitor this to see if it happening:

1) create a huge EA (5 megabytes)
2) open task manager (cntrl - alt - delete) and watch network activity
3) turn on MT4
4) see unusual activity?

Most EAs "break down" because of curve fitting. People make systems with a large amount of indicators and watch them fall apart.

Think this out - why would you trade with a broker or a product you are skeptical of? How can you expect to profitably trade when you are constantly worried about the integrity of your provider? My solution - get a new one. I've made a lot of EAs, but frankly the best move I ever made was leaving MT4. I now use Ninjatrader and it is rock-solid.

Best of luck!

A broker can tell if you are using an EA, but they can't steal the code as it runs client side, not server side. They could in theory study the EA behaviour and make a strategy against it but in reality that would be pointless since most EAs fail when market conditions favourable to the EA change anyway.

When it comes to EAs, there is no conspiracy involved when they start to fail. EAs inevitably do fail on their own

Hey Cogs, Moody, Oakmonster - thx for your feedback. Great info -

I think then we can put this one to bed (unless something else pops up) - the only thing we have to fear is ourselves and our EAs.

Happy trading.

BTW Cogs: is your EA a commercial one? I am game to try something that works even if it needs some tweaking from time to time.

Hey msood,

i agree with oakmonster:

it is NOT possible for a Broker to view/pull its Client’s indicators/EA codes. It is however possible in some scenarios for a broker to simply recognize when a trader may be using an EA, mainly in the following 2 scenarios:

 

1. The EA changes the TP/SL/amends limit orders, at a rate that would appear to be inhumanely possible (i.e. within split seconds)

1. The EA has a consistent comment, usually left in by its creator, which may indicate to the broker that it is being left in by an EA – e.g. a signature of the creator

I hope this has helped

I am a Network Engineer and I have worked with Software companies and QA departments. Brokers can see spitting image of what you are using. You dont think they script logs to send when your order goes to their dealing desks. If you dont think they cant see what you are running then you are terribly mis-informed.

Sure they can see you are running an EA, and in some cases, the name and version of the EA. The point was whether they can steal the EA code or not though.

I highly doubt it, but without seeing the source code of the MT4 terminal it is impossible to know for sure.

do you mean MT4 client running an image streaming service?
have you ever checked packet size sent by mt4 client to broker's server?
if mt4 client send chart's screenshot continuously, how much bandwidth would it take? imagine if you have 18 chart opened.

in http(s) protocol, there is no way for broker (server) to steal data on client's pc. the only data they recieved is the data sent by mt4 (client).

btw, most of EA failed without broker's intervention. heck, they even fail on strategy tester

I've wondered this myself. Two observations:

1) When I create a new EA (usually by doing a "save as" from an existing one and changing the buy/sell logic), I can't see this new file from Windows Explorer. Maybe the file is included in one of MetaTrader's files. Maybe they've got one big file with all of your EAs and indicators.

2) I think the brokers are able to read their own platform files. "Oh, we read the files to see if they're up to date...and we'll notify you if you need an update". Meaning perhaps they can read their own files from your machine. And perhaps your EAs are in their own filespace...not separate files.

I really wonder...when it comes to money...things can get really funny.

Perhaps the thing to do is have an empty EA file except an "/include" (or whatever the syntax is) to pull the code in from another file. I think this other file has to be under their "experts" folder (or somewhere near there)...but at least you can manually put the code there. So if your EA is part of one of their files...maybe they only see the "include" statement, but not the other file that you put there yourself (not saved via MetaEditor...but saved from a Windows editor).

But I just don't anything for sure...

Can a broker figure on Indicator settings and EA settings from journal? Does the broker have access to journal and its logs?

I see the below entry in journal tab of Terminal.
2011.11.16 18:14:00 Custom indicator Heiken_Ashi_Smoothed_Alert_Bar1 EURUSD,M30: loaded successfully

Thanks

Everybody is wasting time worrying about unimportant things. Stay focused on the important ones and your trading will improve.

No one is wasting time with this topic, its a valid question and concerning topic.

The only way to understand this with confidence, without ECNjesus or similar, providing facts from the server side capabilities, is to assume they can see all.

I recall some time ago, on at least 2 different occasions, with 2 different brokers who used MT4, where I contacted their support and explained about a problem I was having, so they logged in as me from their office to see how they could deal with the issue. Metatrader manager allows easy access to each clients details, but because very few traders are successful most brokers wouldn't bother (chicken or the egg).

Now from my experience, even if you change your password, it can still be retrieved from their database, if they wanted to make the extra effort. Now if you are highly profitable, 5 mins of staffs time to retrieve a password might be well worth the effort.

Some more evidence of server side settings and how they can monitor your settings: 'LogAnalyser Settings plugin' to access and see individual traders settings, and 'TopTraders Settings plugin' well that speaks for itself, both by Metaquotes.

hi.. this is an old thread but i want to share my experience here nonetheless.

i ran an EA on two seperate brokers, with the same setting and equity. it is a news based EA.

one broker actually MC'ed my account, opening various positions at odd (none news related) hours within one day.

the other is still (as today) operating well and in the money.

so to answer the question; can a broker see what EA ur running?

MY ANSWER and experience is.. YES!

Apart of EA... can broker see indicators (emas for example), what kind and how you plot them on your screen?

Have a friend who is one of the founding partners of MT COOK Australia..I asked him the same question once and there is no possibility of doing that but there are other features which shows easily if you are using an EA..Example Magic Numbers etc

you should read this post about "MT4 Virtual Dealer Plugin and Suspicious Broker Activity Detection" in this thread

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...=603038&page=8

It's not possible due to client-server architecture. Brokers receive only the flow of your orders, though they can determine only if you have or have not the EA by some indirect evidences such as orders speed, changes of stops, TPs. Also your EA may be a subject of copyright rules or this can be paid software so allowing brokers access to it could made the platform (MT4) very unattractive for professional traders.