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  • #41
  • Nov 10, 2010 12:44am Nov 10, 2010 12:44am
Quoting CindyXXXX
I think trading is much like golf

Anyone who has played the game for some time may be able to relate....

1) To win you must beat other people but at the end of the day the only battle is with yourself

2) It takes time to learn but can never be mastered fully

3) I can be playing like Tiger Woods one day and am humbled in my next round when I cant hit the thing off the ground.

4) The perfect stroke in its real form is very simple and easy when you're "in the zone" but when you lose that it can be very hard to get back to that simplicity...

Absolutely. In fact all the basic tools are here in this forum and on the web in general. One does not need to spend vast sums of money looking for THE system. The system is as simple as mere familiarity with the market and its nuances. But like everything in life, its a process of intuitive learning until the market is no longer mysterious.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #42
  • Nov 10, 2010 2:34am Nov 10, 2010 2:34am
Quoting FXSurfer
I think that this thread really does show that, for all the scamming bastards on the forum, there are people who just want to help. I think that's pretty cool and it keeps me hanging around.
That is so true. It annoys me whenever some idiot says that successful traders wouldn't waste their time helping others. Successful people in all professions tend to help others because they were probably helped themselves. It's how the world works, even though there are those who are so selfish and ignorant and they think otherwise.

For me, I'm constantly helping people because I'm an educator and it's what I've been doing for over 20 years. It doesn't matter to me if I help someone make money or pass a class, it's simply helping someone who needs help.

Everyone has their own reasons for helping, but in the end, those who do help others do it simply because it's the right thing to do.
  • #43
  • Nov 10, 2010 3:17am Nov 10, 2010 3:17am
Quoting CindyXXXX
I think trading is much like golf

Anyone who has played the game for some time may be able to relate....

1) To win you must beat other people but at the end of the day the only battle is with yourself

2) It takes time to learn but can never be mastered fully

3) I can be playing like Tiger Woods one day and am humbled in my next round when I cant hit the thing off the ground.

4) The perfect stroke in its real form is very simple and easy when you're "in the zone" but when you lose that it can be very hard to get back to that simplicity...
I agree wholeheartedly. If I may be frank for a moment - I'm not a very disciplined person all in all, but I have found that making trading into a routine helps a lot. That's one of the reasons I posted links to Steve Pavlina's articles on developing personal discipline in my reading suggestions thread. I really think discipline and routine helps whether you're a short term trader or a long term trader. After reading the brain book and developing some sort of basic routine, I have seen what it means to be consistently profitable. The funny thing is that I didn't change much in the way I do my analysis or even the way I trade. The changes took place inside my head and in the way I approach a new trading day. Now I have a set routine for each trading day and I really don't want to go back to that no-man's land of no planning, no routine and no discipline. I still find myself taken aback by the market from time to time, but I have a routine for that as well - I have a number of articles that I have printed out to remind me of the important things and how the market really doesn't care about anyone.

Two of those articles stand tall above the rest. I find them very humbling, here they are (thank you PeterFM!):
Reminiscences of a Complacent FX Trader
Psychology (Greed)
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #44
  • Nov 10, 2010 3:30am Nov 10, 2010 3:30am
Quoting cityboy
The reason why I said the TF matters a lot in forex is because personally I trade the 4H charts and above,I trade few times a week(with smaller TF's you'll have to and will be tempted to trade a awful lot more)

Good post....excellent insight!
  • #45
  • Nov 10, 2010 3:48am Nov 10, 2010 3:48am
Well after doing the equivilant of running through the factory naked I feel I have gotten a whole lot out of this little episode.

There was some great words of wisdom and I have actually fallen back in love with trading today and a very small link that was missing seems to be back in place.

If anyone ever gets to the point where they just want to quit. Please remember this thread and read it through. (My self included).

Sorry for the rant in the first post but I think it was a good thing in the end embarrasing as it was!

I had a small read through reds "price is everything" thread and a blown light bulb in my head has now been replaced. My method can now adapt to the "chamelion" again as it once did before I went and ruined it with SPECIFIC patterns. In the process of trying to "define" my method I went and ruined my edge and I can only see that now.!

Feeling good and this has restored my faith in this place. I cant thank you guys enough

Cheers
Time hides Nothing
  • #46
  • Nov 10, 2010 3:49am Nov 10, 2010 3:49am
Quoting bug
. Now I have a set routine for each trading day and I really don't want to go back to that no-man's land of no planning, no routine and no discipline. I still find myself taken aback by the market from time to time, but I have a routine for that as well - I have a number of articles that I have printed out to remind me of the important things and how the market really doesn't care about anyone.

Two of those articles stand tall above the rest. I find them very humbling, here they are (thank you PeterFM!):
[url="http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=1548038&postcount=31"][b]Reminiscences...
Great advice - "routine for when you're lost" I think I will make one of those as well and it will start with reading this thread.

Thanks Bug
Time hides Nothing
  • #47
  • Nov 10, 2010 4:17am Nov 10, 2010 4:17am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Great advice - "routine for when you're lost" I think I will make one of those as well and it will start with reading this thread.

Thanks Bug
I'm very glad to be able to help. I almost forgot one of the most powerful things you can do to get 'back on track' when you feel you've slipped. MUSIC. Use powerful music that make your brain mix you a cocktail of all the good chemicals. Each to his/her own taste, of course. Here's is something from my collection (yes, NYC is my favorite city, been there twice and I love it; talk about a good mix of positive chemicals in my brain):
Inserted Video
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #48
  • Nov 10, 2010 4:19am Nov 10, 2010 4:19am
Quoting bug
I'm very glad to be able to help. I almost forgot one of the most powerful things you can do to get 'back on track' when you feel you've slipped. MUSIC. Use powerful music that make your brain mix you a cocktail of all the good chemicals. Each to his/her own taste, of course. Here's is something from my collection (yes, NYC is my favorite city, been there twice and I love it; talk about a good mix of positive chemicals in my brain):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjsXo9l6I8
Cool song

Check this song out someone made as a piss take of Tasmania, a small state in Australia using the same tune.

Any Aussies in the house?

Inserted Video
Time hides Nothing
  • #49
  • Nov 10, 2010 4:30am Nov 10, 2010 4:30am
Haha. I love parodies. The ones from Rucka Rucka Ali, though politically incorrect and an eyesore for YouTube, are very good indeed (especially the one titled 'I can do whatever I'm white').
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #50
  • Nov 10, 2010 7:45am Nov 10, 2010 7:45am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Well after doing the equivalent of running through the factory naked I feel I have gotten a whole lot out of this little episode.
There was some great words of wisdom and I have actually fallen back in love with trading today and a very small link that was missing seems to be back in place....
look for your own 'spark bird'
it could be anything.

if i remember correctly, every avid bird watcher has their own 'spark bird' - a bird that sparked their interest in birdwatching.

everytime u feel down.... remember your spark bird.
this/these spark bird/s will be your trading 'spark plug/s'
  • #51
  • Nov 10, 2010 7:58am Nov 10, 2010 7:58am
When in doubt...ZOOM OUT and only trade 1 pair that's a good trender (E/U).


Quoting CindyXXXX
-Tales of a burnt out trading wannabe:

Trading is hard,,, very hard but in a way, as hard as we make it...

At some point we need to accept that we just dont know for sure and all we can do is take advantage of some sort of justified edge but really..

Does anyone ever feel sorta stupid calling themselves a player in this financial game when all we can do really is look at some chart and make an "educated" guess as to what might happen next... I know I do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I want to know something others dont, in fact I NEED to in order...
Annoying Precision
  • #52
  • Edited Nov 11, 2010 12:08am Nov 10, 2010 8:22pm | Edited Nov 11, 2010 12:08am
hi Cindy,

I have a couple of thoughts I'd like to share with you about process.


place a diamond on the horizon and put your mind there, don't focus on your feet. the journey from here to there takes a lot of steps but counting them will drive you mad, it makes the road seem too long.

break the day into reasonable goals and set an orderly structure to your process.

distraction can seep into your process so you need to define clear boundaries. become comfortable with silence. no great thinker or businessperson listens to music while they work. itunes, youtube, FF, twitter are not tools, they are distractions.

there is always something to study, a part of your process to improve, aspects of your personality to refine. anyone who thinks they have a lot of free time is not doing this correctly. free time is the time we give ourselves where we can turn off the computer and live life.

trading is like meditation or a martial art. you need to create the mental discipline to become completely immersed while remaining focused and balanced. if you view it this way, it becomes something very different.

when you're feeling like you've hit a wall or a point of frustration about your work, create new challenges for yourself, new exercises to hone your skills in a different way. it helps keep to keep you on track (especially times when the markets hit a frustrating jag).

there's many exercizes and approaches you can work into your regime. kind of like going to the gym.

remember that every great person started with the same doubts, frustrations, and difficult times. they got there by doubling down on their efforts through the rough patchs and by remaining incredibly driven. I think many people make the mistake of thinking they can multiprocess well, but if you study six simga efficiencies, it's just not true.

a friend of mine has very strict rules for his firm. all casual internet access is blocked, mobile phones are switched off, and only land lines are functional. lol, it's like the 1950's in his office.

but guess what? his company outperformed his competition by a large margin, everyone enjoys larger bonuses than their counterparts, and people are trying to get in, not out.

it may not seem as fun or casual an approach, but it makes the difference between skating along or excelling.


anyway, just some random thoughts that sprang to mind reading your post, hope some of it is useful.


  • #53
  • Nov 10, 2010 8:42pm Nov 10, 2010 8:42pm
Hi all

Intresting thread. Firstly forgive me for my spelling mistakes( I didn't pay attention at school, also this post is being written from an iPhone.

Ok I would like to share with you all my journey as a forex trader. This journey started only a short time ago, June of 2009, so compared to many others I am still new to this. Since I was introduced to the forex market I have bspent over six hours a day on the charts,(no exaggeration I am obsesive, combined with a deep passion to aspire to be a trader). I have explored so many possible trading system in this short time, it pratically short circuted my brain. There where days even weeks when I was sure I was beginning to understand the forex market (what a joke that seems to me now). And then after these moments of false triumphs I was proppelled into the a realm of uncertainty and like you Cindy(I realize you a far more expirenced than my self) I question if I had learnt or new anything at all, to the point that looking at a chart found me asking how could anyone make sense of this. But continued I did(for me quitting is not an option)

Like others who have contributed to your thread I have come to believe time frame is irrelevant as are most indicators. For most of the time price moves in ranges,weather it be 4,2,1 hour charts or 15 , 5 min charts the concept seems to to be the same depending on your expectations and patince will in time determine your tf. Smaller time frame smaller target.

For me I have come to understand FRACTALS, and trade them in conjunction with convergence of pivots , fib, horizontal support and resistence, and PATIENCE.

Some may laugh, but for the last three months consistency has begun to domminat my trading, obviously not all my trades are winning trades, but the most important thing the lose from the losing trades are minimal due to my stops being placed above/below the s and r level traded, and never chasing price, my no 1 rule is only enter a trade close to or right on s and r level WHEN PRICE IS MOVING IN OPPISOTE DIRECTION I WANT TO TRADE( sorry if that's confusing). If for some reAson the level breaks and I am stopped out, then I wait for the next level or range to develop and do it all over again.

Anyway for those who found this post to be long winded, apologies, my intention is to provide insight to those who are seeking direction, don't listen to those who say day trading is impossible, or that all day trAders lose over time, it is possible to be making 30 ( most days) to 100 pips (when market enviroment is in your favour and trade is managed accordingley, DONT BE GREEDY. Losing trades are part of the game, and a non emotional approache to trading is what I had to come to terms with before any level of succes or consistency formed part of my trading.

There are still many aspects of trading that I will learn as time goes on, hopefully I can share this with as many traders as possible as my journey continues.

Never give up and trust in yourself!!!
  • #54
  • Nov 10, 2010 10:25pm Nov 10, 2010 10:25pm
Quoting xxxxLearner
Some may laugh, but for the last three months consistency has begun to domminat my trading, obviously not all my trades are winning trades, but the most important thing the lose from the losing trades are minimal due to my stops being placed above/below the s and r level traded, and never chasing price, my no 1 rule is only enter a trade close to or right on s and r level WHEN PRICE IS MOVING IN OPPISOTE DIRECTION I WANT TO TRADE( sorry if that's confusing). If for some reAson the level breaks and I am stopped out, then I wait for the next level...
I think the big thing is that you need to find the style that works for you. This market is the biggest in the world and can swallow you in an instant.

To give you an idea this market was estimated at around 1.9 Trillion a day in 2004 and is estimated at 4.5 Trillion to 5 Trillion a day now. There is no other market that even comes close to these kinds of figures.

Don't expect to learn it all in 30 days, let alone even 2 years. You are always learning something because the market is always changing. You either change with it or die trying. If you don't like challenges, strategy games etc. This is probably not for you. There is nothing wrong with trying it... but do it with a small amount first.

Realize there is no amount of money you could put into to it that it couldn't swallow you in an instant. Even central banks rarely get their way [for very long] unless it is a coordinated effort among several central banks.

Realize you may find a strategy that works for you one week, but doesn't the next. Or maybe works for months on end and then all of a sudden stops working...

Welcome to the world of FOREX... the challenge never ends. Someone is always gunning for you. Are you game?

BRING YOUR "A" GAME...

BECAUSE FX EATS ALL OTHER MARKETS FOR LUNCH!

Never forget that... the minute you do you're toast.
  • #55
  • Nov 10, 2010 10:42pm Nov 10, 2010 10:42pm
I'm not altogether sure what this thread is about, but it seems you (the OP) need some inspiration or direction (or maybe both), I can't give any direction, cause let's face it, it's a jungle out there. But for inspiration I suggest reading this thread http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...hreadid=187730, this guy is the real deal, no signing up for signals, espousing indicators, self hypnosis or vague hyperbole. He just (as he says) grinds it out day after day. Some time spent reading it, I feel, would be more valuable than reading all the horse-shit posted here. You gotta love the numbers and be prepared to grind.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #56
  • Nov 10, 2010 11:02pm Nov 10, 2010 11:02pm
Quoting Craig
I'm not altogether sure what this thread is about, but it seems you (the OP) need some inspiration or direction (or maybe both), I can't give any direction, cause let's face it, it's a jungle out there. But for inspiration I suggest reading this thread http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...hreadid=187730, this guy is the real deal, no signing up for signals, espousing indicators, self hypnosis or vague hyperbole. He just (as he says) grinds it out day after day. Some time spent reading it, I feel, would be more valuable than...

It really intrigues me why someone comes to a board and says " why listen to this expletive come here"

What is your motive? you come here to read the BS but then post that somewhere else is somehow better? Give me a break.

Newbies, question everything! Scammer patrol is trying to stupidly capture your attention.
  • #57
  • Edited Nov 11, 2010 12:10am Nov 10, 2010 11:02pm | Edited Nov 11, 2010 12:10am
Quoting Craig
I'm not altogether sure what this thread is about, but it seems you (the OP) need some inspiration or direction (or maybe both), I can't give any direction, cause let's face it, it's a jungle out there. But for inspiration I suggest reading this thread http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...hreadid=187730, this guy is the real deal, no signing up for signals, espousing indicators, self hypnosis or vague hyperbole. He just (as he says) grinds it out day after day. Some time spent reading it, I feel, would be more valuable than...
I must admit I was a bit worried clicking into this post Craig cause I know you're not one to hold back and I have always respected your opinion. Thankfully you went easy on me! No one likes a whinger! Thanks for the link I'll def check it out..

As for what this thread is about... It prob could have ended much sooner with a simple "harden the fk up CXXXX" lol but anyway, sometimes you just gotta do what you feel is right I guess, and although specific direction is not what I was looking for, in a funny way thats what I seem to have found with the collective input of everyone in the thread really.

This thread for me has been like jumping into a pool of freezing water... Not that comfortable but it certainlly had the desired effect. So perhaps a little self indulgent but I hope someone else has got something out of it as well.

Thanks again.
Time hides Nothing
  • #58
  • Nov 10, 2010 11:06pm Nov 10, 2010 11:06pm
Quoting pip_seeker
It really intrigues me why someone comes to a board and says " why listen to this expletive come here"

What is your motive? you come here to read the BS but then post that somewhere else is somehow better? Give me a break.

Newbies, question everything! Scammer patrol is trying to stupidly capture your attention.
Pip Seeker - IMo Craig is the most opposite to what you just suggested. I value your input in this thread and its fine to question motives as the snakes are def in the grass but I dont believe for a second Craig is one of them. Hes one of the most respected members here and the link he posted wasnt promoting anything.
Time hides Nothing
  • #59
  • Nov 10, 2010 11:09pm Nov 10, 2010 11:09pm
Quoting Fudomyo
hi Cindy,

I have a couple of thoughts I'd like to share with you about process.


place a diamond on the horizon and put your mind there, don't focus on your feet. the journey from here to there takes a lot of steps but counting them will drive you mad, it makes the road seem too long.

break the day into reasonable goals and set an orderly structure to your process.

distraction can seep into your process so you need to define clear boundaries. become comfortable with silence. no great thinker or businessperson listens to music...
Thanks for that Fudomyo, its always good to hear how other people view things and I agree. Dicpline and routine is certainlly something I have been lacking of late and I think you make some great points.

Thankyou
Time hides Nothing
  • #60
  • Nov 11, 2010 12:05am Nov 11, 2010 12:05am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Thanks for that Fudomyo, its always good to hear how other people view things and I agree. Dicpline and routine is certainlly something I have been lacking of late and I think you make some great points.

Thankyou
I wasn't singling you out particularly.

I went through a malaise period too and had to firm up my approach to get through it.

I know you've tried different things as well, like your army mission journal. (lol... that was brilliant)
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