Poker vs Trading

Well my guess would be that making 100% a year is far harder with 50 billions than with $ 100 but that's just my point of view

Haha, you challenge me? Grow up, kid Will get heads up tomorow in forex. Just as you enter the market I will be lurking there waiting for your mistake.

Yes, I challenged you. You are 30, I am 26, so there really is no currency in calling me "Kid".

Trading firms put their money on poker experts

A new breed of Wall Street recruit gets ahead not through connections or business experience, but through demonstrating a head for numbers, quick thinking and risk-taking – skills from the card table.

May 16, 2010|By Nathaniel Popper, Los Angeles Times


Reporting from New York — Chris Fargis thought his big job interview was over. But when the partners at Wall Street upstart Toro Trading finished with their questions, they broke out a deck of cards and a green-felt card table. Mind playing a few hands of poker?

It was a final test, and Fargis was relieved. The 30-year-old never went to business school or even took a finance class. But he knew poker. He had made a living playing the game online for six years from his Manhattan apartment, betting on up to eight hands at a time.







Within a few days, Fargis — with no Wall Street experience — was offered a position trading stock options, a job that entails making multimillion-dollar gambles. His poker skills sealed the deal.


"If someone's been successful at poker then there's a good chance they could be successful in this business," said Toro partner Danon Robinson. "If you have no interest, that's almost a red flag.... It's almost the equivalent of not reading the Wall Street Journal."


There's a part of Wall Street — investment banking in particular — that looks for recruits with sterling family connections and impeccable educations, and that favors sturdy young men and women who played college team sports such as lacrosse and rugby.


Toro Trading is not that Wall Street. Instead, it's one of the new breed of high-speed trading desks that are revolutionizing the financial markets, and making their money on the fractional gains from buying or selling a split-second ahead of their rivals.


They look for job candidates who are quick-thinking, have nerves of steel and a head for numbers — the very skills that lead to success in online poker.
"There's a certain maturity and ability to deal with risk that is hard to get any other way — unless you put the money on the table at some point in your life," said Aaron Brown, a hedge fund executive and author of the 2006 book "The Poker Face of Wall Street."


Susquehanna International Group, a 1,500-employee trading firm based in a Philadelphia suburb, has made the card game a central part of its training program. New hires are given copies of "The Theory of Poker" and "Hold 'Em Poker" and spend one full day a week studying the game by playing it.


"We are trying to teach people how to be good decision-makers under uncertainty," said Pat McCauley, who runs the training program. "It's not the stereotypical stuff with bluffing — it's real science."


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may...aders-20100516


I play poker as well (hold 'em), and IMO there are definitely similarities. Just in the nature of risk-taking. For instance, in poker when faced with a decision you might weigh the amount of chips you have, the amount your opponent has, how many people in the pot, where in the hand you are, what cards you have, what cards you think your opponent might have, how you might want to play the hand independently of cards, and so on - and all of those little judgement calls add up to a single opinion (this single opinion may be to go all-in or, perhaps, to fold - both are equally significant) that (if you are a good player) should definitely be better than a random guess. Same for trading. A few subjective and common sense judgement calls together equals an opinion better than a random guess.


Another similarity: the importance of playing each hand and making each decisions as best as possible without worrying about or caring what cards your opponent may end up drawing.

Hey, I've been playing poker professionally for 3 years now and play up to NL1000 now and also coach students on the side. I initially started with 150$ deposit and never put any money in again. I still play for a living but I'm looking to get into trading as the games are getting tougher as I move up. I realize that if I am profitable in trading, I shouldn't have any issues with respect to "moving up." I'm willing to answer any questions you guys might have on poker. I have now been working on my trading for a few months, and don't mind exchanging trading knowledge for poker knowledge.

Comparing poker to trading is mostly low level science....
The only good resemblance to poker is your skill level...
In trading you will be 0.02 cent bb player against 600$ bb experts
And they control the cards

If you thing you've discovered something with MM and controlling your psychology...
You are in a wrong part of the universe...

Just compare quant analysis to TA
and you will see you are way behind the good players
Unfortunately trading takes a couple of years - if you are good
poker can be grasped for 6 months

Out here it's do or die,
and mostly die for retail folks.

As someone who has finished a few years of poker, albeit not full time pro but profitable for a while. I took it very seriously, trying to learn every aspect of making correct decisions all the time, but now I have decided to move to trading.
Trading really really appeals to me now, poker is getting too hard, even the fishy levels are becoming difficult to grind a profit from, and the variance is really really tough to deal with.

Heres some comparisons Ive noticed from reading FF and other places and these are the reasons im more excited about trading.

Id really appreciated it if people corrected me because I dont want to be naive going into this, I just want to know from other traders/poker players are some of these assumptions correct?

Downswings (Drawdowns):

Far far worse in poker, you need to have no emotion after losing hand after hand after hand. In trading it seems the drawdowns are tough obviously, but the variance isnt nearly as bad so your not as inclined to completely question your play(system).

Moving up:

Very tough in poker, whereas in trading it is the exact same strategy so requires no new effort.

Bankroll management(Money management):

It is 100% the exact same, e.g. don't bet more than 2% of your account. Same as poker , always have 50 Buy Ins.

Time:

Grinding poker can be a 12 hour in front of screen scenario, whereas learn to master the art of trading, and only a few hours are required per day if even(im talking years down the line). Also some poker players are forced to play at certain times to find the fish.

Stigma:

There is no stigma to being a pro trader, in fact, the perception is that you are highly intelligent and mathematical. Whereas there's alot of stigma attached to being a pro poker player. It would be far more difficult to put on a CV that you were a pro poker player than it would a trader.

Jobs:

If you are a proven successful trader you can apply for jobs in that area, hence not having to use your own money. There are no banks or companies that hire people to play poker for profit.

Profit (This one may be very naive):

I gather in the long run , alot of profit can be made if you are an excellent trader. If you're making equivalent profit in poker you are probably one of the most famous in the world.

Strategy: There are thousands of systems amongst all types of traders, one of the main rules of trading seems to be "find your own profitable system and stick to it". There is far less 'systems' in poker, and as a result, even bad players are picking up the basics. In 2005 you could sit tight and let the donks call you no problem once you move all in with your premium hand. But now the donks know this, so they are all playing tight. Due to so much coaching, forums, information available, "systems" arent nearly as usable and as a result the game is getting more and more difficult every year.

Online Poker is suffering from a lack of fish at the mo, i used to play low stakes sit n goes and did fairly well but even the low stakes games are now full of tight regs. Cash games are also full of tight regs even at the low stakes.

The tournaments or multi-table sit n goes still have fish left though so are still worth playing if you like tournaments.

All the problems with full tilt poker and the other sites has scared the fish away.
Also the rake is a killer at low stakes so fish lose quicker.

Hopefully it gets regulated in the US and there is an influx of new players, otherwise it will be hard to make any money online.