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Advice I wish I had as a complete forex newbie

  • #61
  • Oct 25, 2010 8:17am Oct 25, 2010 8:17am
Quoting Mr J
I'm not justifying trading - I don't have to - I'm just offering a different point of view. I really don't care that I'm taking money from others. They put their chips on the table and lost. Don't pretend that trading is an evil in an innocent world - the majority of businesses engage in predatory action. The difference is that losses in the market are the equivalent of a few fatal wounds, while the cost of consumerism is death by a thousand cuts. Either way, we are bled dry.


Very agreed, I think were on the same page. And I apologize if I mistook your point differently. I've literally listened to people talk about how much good they are doing the world by trading. They sound like they're freakin saints providing the answer to all the worlds problems hahaha.
  • #62
  • Oct 26, 2010 3:02am Oct 26, 2010 3:02am
Quoting DKallDAY


Very agreed, I think were on the same page. And I apologize if I mistook your point differently. I've literally listened to people talk about how much good they are doing the world by trading. They sound like they're freakin saints providing the answer to all the worlds problems hahaha.
Oh, I am doing God's work. If a god made this world, it intentionally made it competitive, and made us unequal. Surely, to not embrace our advantages through competition would be against the god's wishes?
  • #63
  • Oct 26, 2010 3:24am Oct 26, 2010 3:24am
Between posts #45 and #52 (and within the space of 10 hours) the learning curve just increased from 1,000 hours to 10,000 hours of study.

Does anybody know how long it will take for those who start tomorrow?
  • #64
  • Oct 26, 2010 3:39am Oct 26, 2010 3:39am
Quoting hanover
Between posts #45 and #52 (and within the space of 10 hours) the learning curve just increased from 1,000 hours to 10,000 hours of study.

Does anybody know how long it will take for those who start tomorrow?
I have yet to understand why this is interesting to argue about (without empirical justification of what ever is argued). I think its very important to make the distinction of any general average numbers, and specific numbers. I was talking about something very specific, not something very general. Being so that i never said anything about something very general, but people seem very easily amused, or at least occupied by it, so by all means: Do what you will shall be the whole of the law.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #65
  • Oct 26, 2010 4:55am Oct 26, 2010 4:55am
Quoting yaed
I have yet to understand why this is interesting to argue about (without empirical justification of what ever is argued). I think its very important to make the distinction of any general average numbers, and specific numbers. I was talking about something very specific, not something very general. Being so that i never said anything about something very general, but people seem very easily amused, or at least occupied by it, so by all means: Do what you will shall be the whole of the law.
I'm sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, just happened to see two posts that apparently contradicted each other by a factor of 10, and thought I'd be playfully tongue-in-cheek. Ah well.
  • #66
  • Oct 26, 2010 2:59pm Oct 26, 2010 2:59pm
Quoting Deusomega
"That doesnt mean what happens is predictible, most of the money is controlled by EAs that is very, very advanced, EAs that is not available for people or even large companies. These EAs are secret, and the people who code them know only a very small part of what they are doing."

Hmmm okay?

Baseless speculation much?
No, i know people who work with that and i have been to places where they work with these things.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #67
  • Edited 6:08pm Oct 29, 2010 3:28am | Edited 6:08pm
Quoting hanover
A picture paints a thousand words.
Inserted Video


Im not saying they are spot on, im not saying they are being told much other then lies, but just look at this guy they actually interwiev. Doesnt matter if you are trading long term och short term, you gotta trade WITH these EAs, otherwise you are SCREWED BIGTIME, cause you cant trade against 70% of the capital being moved. So you gotta learn how to trade like them or trade not att all and go grow potatoes in the alps or something.

Ive actually heard REAL people working in REAL banks saying that math dont work no more, that you cant trade with math. Well then i guess there are no EAs, now THAT would be an outrageous conspiracy theory if ever there where one, going up against all the evidence there is taking in evidence that DONT exist.

Cred for the clip to chonchy
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #68
  • Oct 29, 2010 2:14pm Oct 29, 2010 2:14pm
Quoting hanover
3. At various stages along the journey, trading can be an intensely stressful, lonely, and boringly repetitive occupation. Ego being what it is, the desire to communicate one's success to others can become a pressing one. Altruism and charity represent the ultimate expression of the human spirit, but it could equally be argued, especially in the cutthroat, zero sum context of forex, that there's nothing unethical about selling information that is extremely valuable. (However, there seems to be a growing mentality that those who are successful are...

Spot on, I find it rather amusing how so many come into this with the mentality that the forex pros of the world some how owe the newbie's something. They don't realize that the life span of a system is rather short or that additional tweaks maybe needed as time goes on.

They don't want to spend any of their hard earned time doing anything, but it's ok for you to do it and share it with them for nothing. I'm not sure where this mentality comes from?

My advice to any newbie is that you need to soak up what you can on your own. It is a brutal game and will challenge you more than anything in your life most of the time. If you are married, it may cause your divorce unless your spouse joins you in the quest... but this can and will present other problems. [Anytime money is involved things tend to get sticky at some point.]

If you don't have at least 10,000 hours to invest in learning it your patience will flee from you when you desperately need it among a few other choice emotions.

This battle is nothing more than the biggest and most liquid chess match ever developed... where each move has various risks and possibly a few rewards. But stop thinking for a split second and it could cost you more than a few bucks. Live to be king of the roost for the week and become feed for the swine by the end of the month.

Stick to the plan... follow the course. Everyone is gunning for you. The minute you forget that you're toast - yesterday's 6pm news.
  • #69
  • Oct 29, 2010 9:49pm Oct 29, 2010 9:49pm
Quoting pip_seeker
They don't want to spend any of their hard earned time doing anything, but it's ok for you to do it and share it with them for nothing. I'm not sure where this mentality comes from?
Most people are too lazy and lack intelligence to do it for themselves. While some may think that statement is unfair, I think the fact that most people don't do it for themselves proves it true.

Of course people will ask others for help though. The nature of a forum suggests that people will be only too willing to reply, and what does someone have to lose by asking?
  • #70
  • Oct 30, 2010 2:42am Oct 30, 2010 2:42am
Quoting hanover
Does anybody know how long it will take for those who start tomorrow?
I have been trading <2 years & have probaby invested 3,500 - 4,000 hr trading and learning about trading in that time. I lost a somewhat painful amount of money in the first year but I clawed it back in the next. I make money consistently now and I am gearing up to trade larger and larger and to trade OPM. I honestly believe I can take money from the markets at will and the only thing that could impede me is the double dealing of the intermediaries with whom I must trade. Oh, right, that and my own stupid mistakes - but what you gain by staying in the game and enduring its hardest tests is the diminution of your propensity to make stupid mistakes.

I am always learning and adapting and I know that that process will never end. In hindsight I feel that learning to daytrade fx was a very fortunate entry - I have been forced to learn alot about finance and market microstructure and international macroeconomics and I am not sure I would have gone down that road had I focused more narrowly on stocks or ag futures or whatever. On the other hand, currencies flow through all the markets and knowledge of their fundamentals and interplay can inform trading in any of those. In other words, if you can trade fx, you can trade anything, imo.

I don't know where the 10,000 hr number comes from. The fact is, you will always have to be learning and adapting, so the upper limit of the number is contiguous with your lifespan as a trader. The lower limit is different for everybody. I thought making money trading was easy from the beginning. Then I had to learn all about risk and its consequences by discovering how easy it is to lose money, as well. Whatever the number of hours entailed, if you do not go through some real and painful losses I would doubt the foundations of your education as a trader.

So, re: the above, I would recommend to the newbie trader that he forgo a long period of demo trading. A week or so is plenty to familiarize yourself with the trading software. From there you need to trade real Gelt at a level where the losses you may incur are enough to really feel. Obviously, not at an opening level that can harm you financially, but at a level, from the beginning, that will allow you to truly experience the consequences of risk. Because how one manages risk is the single most important factor that determines whether or not you live or die as a trader, and, beyond that, whether you just scrape by or make the kind of returns that everyone dreams of. Too much risk or not enough, both are serious problems, and everybody needs to find their sweet spot in the range.

Another thing I have learned relates to balance. Trading is a mentally and emotionally challenging endeavor and one's involvement in it has to be balanced. This is different for everybody but I think everybody must pay attention to this or risk ruin. Balance of approach: for instance - you may not be cut out to be a scalper - you might be better off position trading off the daily charts. If you like to scalp, as I do, you might discover that you get burnt out on it after a certain number of days running trading, so you have to find a balance there, too. Personally, I am leaning toward a "less is more" approach.

Lastly, and re: the last point, I will add: "less is more" does not apply to your capitalization. I would suggest that the better you are capitalized, the more likely it is that you will succeed as a trader. If your account is too small, you will be tempted to overtrade and take unnecessary risks in order to achieve significant returns. Of course, a trader can blow out a huge account doing those things, but that trader is likely to fail in any eventuality. I come across traders on this forum who seem to consistently make 100's of pips a week - and they are trading mini-lots. Wtf? If you can get that done with mini-lots you can get it done with $100/pip trades and up. Go for it. And if you have a large enough account you can cherry-pick your trades and still make a living. 20 pips a day is something anyone should be able to do consistently, trading very conservatively, and most people should be able to capitalize their trading account to a level where they can make a living on 20 pips a day... I don't really believe in "trading for a living", though. Trading should not be a wage slave job.

Anyway, good luck, traders, and don't be afraid to dream big.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #71
  • Oct 30, 2010 2:55am Oct 30, 2010 2:55am
lol, and these are the folks we trade with, what a great insight!

No wonder the alleged stats say so many lose, it must be like taking candy from a baby......
  • #72
  • Oct 30, 2010 3:18am Oct 30, 2010 3:18am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, and these are the folks we trade with, what a great insight!

No wonder the alleged stats say so many lose, it must be like taking candy from a baby......
oh yeah...another thing, newbies....don't spend too much time on the forums. There are alot of petty sociopaths hanging out here whose primary mission is to exult in your failure. Learn to ignore them & stay positive.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #73
  • Oct 30, 2010 3:30am Oct 30, 2010 3:30am
Quoting The Fool

oh yeah...another thing, newbies....don't spend too much time on the forums. There are alot of petty sociopaths hanging out here whose primary mission is to exult in your failure. Learn to ignore them & stay positive.
lol, if that was directed at me then why would it make any difference to me whether others succeed or fail, it's not my money!

Staying positive is great, but you also need to be realistic!

Not spending too much time on forums is good advice though, you can come across people who post reams of authoritative-sounding dross like verbal diarrhoea, 99% of which is inaccurate and misleading!
  • #74
  • Oct 30, 2010 7:20am Oct 30, 2010 7:20am
Quoting The Fool
Of course, a trader can blow out a huge account doing those things, but that trader is likely to fail in any eventuality. I come across traders on this forum who seem to consistently make 100's of pips a week - and they are trading mini-lots. Wtf? If you can get that done with mini-lots you can get it done with $100/pip trades and up. Go for it.

Anyway, good luck, traders, and don't be afraid to dream big.

Dear newbie, always question the motives of someone posting in a forum. If you are a newbie it's not about the size of the winnings that matters... only that you are winning.

The more you risk the more your emotions of fear and greed will flare up.

The rationality of this person says you're gonna blow your account anyway so why not blow it big? Tell me what makes sense about that?

Keep yourself grounded... go slow, tomorrow is another day.

10,000 hrs is a loosely defined figure. It is meant to imply it takes work, it is not a get rich quick scheme and the figure will swell as time passes. You will get out of it what you put into it. Try to learn it in 15 minutes... then don't expect your account to last much longer than that on news day.

Dreaming big never hurt anyone... we all have dreams... but when it comes to Forex you better be fully awake!
  • #75
  • Oct 30, 2010 12:28pm Oct 30, 2010 12:28pm
Quoting pip_seeker
Dear newbie, always question the motives of someone posting in a forum. If you are a newbie it's not about the size of the winnings that matters... only that you are winning.
Yeah, right, in the $4 Trillion a day fx market I need the hapless noob to up his trade size, I'm a real snake, aren't I?

On the other hand, if you spent 10,000 hours "learning to trade" and all you have to show for it is 4-figure account then you would have been much better off and way ahead financially getting a two-year degree in ultrasound tech at your local community college. That or a similar trade that the world actually needs will outlive the online speculation "industry".
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #76
  • Oct 30, 2010 3:17pm Oct 30, 2010 3:17pm
Quoting The Fool
Yeah, right, in the $4 Trillion a day fx market I need the hapless noob to up his trade size, I'm a real snake, aren't I?

Well if the shoe fits you wear it sooner or later huh? I only call it like I see it... no one knows me, nor do I know you. It's common knowledge there are unscrupulous peeps surfin the net.

When you tell someone to bet big because they will lose it anyway in not so many words.... puts a few ??'s in my mind. Wouldn't it do the same for you?

We were all newbies once upon a time.

BTW, I never called you a snake. Those are your words.
  • #77
  • Edited 1:57am Oct 31, 2010 1:52am | Edited 1:57am
Quoting yaed
Hi


I consider myself one of the good guys, thats the only reason i post this. I dont think ill get into heaven for doing so and i dont think ill be a bear instead of a fly in my next life. Those things are just baseless speculation. I do it because it feels kinda nice, and thats not because i think people deserve it in general, but because some people deserve it. To be specific, some of the people in this forum are good guys, some of the seniors and some of the noobs, the others i dont even want to think about.

So onwards. Heres a couple of...
Nice thread, great post, fwiw I have done well over 15,000 hours, nearer 20,000 I would think (I am a slow learner, LOL).

I have gone full circle, I started with Nisons candlestick and charting book, moved through every indi / method there is and am back with naked charts now.

Trend, SR, fractals and using the htfs for direction works for me now.
  • #78
  • Oct 31, 2010 2:36am Oct 31, 2010 2:36am
Quoting hanover
http://cdn.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1286396660

A picture paints a thousand words.
And the million dollar word is "Diversification of Risk". This is what I see in this picture.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #79
  • Oct 31, 2010 4:41am Oct 31, 2010 4:41am
Quoting yaed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WstJM...layer_embedded

Im not saying they are spot on, im not saying they are being told much other then lies, but just look at this guy they actually interwiev. Doesnt matter if you are trading long term och short term, you gotta trade WITH these EAs, otherwise you are SCREWED BIGTIME, cause you cant trade against 70% of the capital being moved. So you gotta learn how to trade like them or trade not att all and go grow potatoes in the alps or something.

Ive actually heard REAL people working...
Fat finger error alert!
  • #80
  • Oct 31, 2010 7:51am Oct 31, 2010 7:51am
Quoting Chicky
And the million dollar word is "Diversification of Risk". This is what I see in this picture.
well said.
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