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Trading is an Art

  • #81
  • Oct 15, 2010 1:01am Oct 15, 2010 1:01am
Quoting Delite
Okay, to move this away from the meaning of life and back towards Baronfei's method. It looks to me like a LO breakout strategy using areas of S&R to set tp.

When do you place your orders, baronfei? Do you try to avoid the Franky fakeout?
Yeah I suppose its better that way

Back to the method,
I'd normally place my orders 1 hour before EU session.
Nope, but I tend to enter early, set SL to BE at +20. That's the only way I feel I could counter fakeouts without degrading into a procrastinating trader. Because "breakouts" is about speed, so we really can't "think" whether we want to enter or not...
  • #82
  • Oct 15, 2010 1:04am Oct 15, 2010 1:04am
Quoting Scullmeister
I'm liking your way of thinking my friend. Very thought provoking - love it.

For me and it's just my opinion (for all it's worth and that's not a lot - lol), not sure if it's art or science (or whatever), it's dealing with the emotional side of it that is difficult. You can have a great edge, but if you have fear in trading, then you won't be able to use your edge to its full effect.

" FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY" - all the best.
Hi, thanks. I have to agree that fear is about the worse enemy I have encountered throughout my entire life
  • #83
  • Oct 15, 2010 2:22am Oct 15, 2010 2:22am
Quoting Delite
Actually, just to add another thought to this. Is it fair to say that your method is most effective when the Asian session has been in tight range and least effective when it has moved the market more significantly?

By the way, I think trading is more of an art simply because it is more interpretive. Two people can literally be holding opposing trades and both be profitable.
I think you could put it that way. Though I don't really think about it from that perspective.

My experience is that as long as you have 4 or 5 smaller (visually) candles, and some S/R levels from previous days, you have already got half the ticket into the market.
  • #84
  • Oct 15, 2010 2:24am Oct 15, 2010 2:24am
Quoting ha-pattern
-- Free-ranging intuition amongst several devices, then.

In other words,

there's lots of trading strategies, including --

  1. Gut feeling that's well-informed with TA/FA;
  2. free-ranging intuition amongst several devices;
  3. strictly dividing the chart amongst indicators that each label a chart variable;
  4. putting a naturally linked group of patterns on one chart and see which is dominant;
  5. or, going with one indicator and letting go of trades where the indicator fails.

Pretty cool... you sound like an AI!
  • #85
  • Oct 15, 2010 3:51am Oct 15, 2010 3:51am
Quoting baronfei
Tell the guy from 200AD the earth is round and he'd laugh at you. The earth is only round - to us - until we perceived it.
This actually isn't a good example; the concept of a spherical Earth has been theorised by pre-modern cultures, and known for at least a couple of millenia. After all, the curvature of the Earth can be observed by the human eye.

Despite it being unrealistic, it can still yeild a good example. Who would you rather be: the bold European explorer who sailed west and brought back riches from the East, or the merchant held back for fear of sailing over the edge of the world? That example actually relates very well to trading.
  • #86
  • Oct 15, 2010 3:26pm Oct 15, 2010 3:26pm
lol, seriously?
  • #87
  • Oct 16, 2010 1:35am Oct 16, 2010 1:35am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, seriously?
I'm just carrying on for the sake of it .
  • #88
  • Oct 16, 2010 1:41am Oct 16, 2010 1:41am
Quoting Mr J
I'm just carrying on for the sake of it .
so randomly ruining threads is fun for you, you made great arguments but I think they have gone a little to far now? this was a good thread till about page 4 when it it took it's normal evolution at FF..........
  • #89
  • Oct 17, 2010 11:44pm Oct 17, 2010 11:44pm
This is my setup for the day. I have updated my blog with english as well as per some of your requests...

I'll share more of my trading concept later on with some of the replies I made in PM. Good trading, guys.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #90
  • Oct 17, 2010 11:51pm Oct 17, 2010 11:51pm
trading is not an art, its a gamble ( if done consistently)


....................................................
www.deadcount.blogspot.com
  • #91
  • Oct 18, 2010 12:17am Oct 18, 2010 12:17am
Quoting Vlad
trading is not an art, its a gamble ( if done consistently)


....................................................
www.deadcount.blogspot.com
Ain't life all about gambling? LOL
  • #92
  • Oct 18, 2010 12:24am Oct 18, 2010 12:24am
Here are some of the questions and answer I felt worthwhile sharing with you guys.

Question:
1). Do you use fibs to trade? What fibs level do you use to trade? How do you find the fibs level? (swing high, and low? yesterday high and low? etc)

My Opnion:
Yes, I use fibs, almost all the time. But I do not based on them occassionally. "Yesterday's" highlow would be a standard one but, there's no official time for a trading day in forex, thus, the trick is, used the one that is reflected in the price now! Meaning if the price now respects your fib levels, you know you have got the right fib.

Question:
2). How do you determine stop loss and profit taking?

My Opnion:
I want my TP to be at least 40 pips, because of SL reasons. So it'd be normally the next S/R you find from 40 pips or above. If I feel the market has room, I'll go for more (anywhere less than 100 for intraday). So, one would ask, how do you know if there's room?
For instance, like when you have a upward channel and the price is at the near bottom of the channel, there's when you could have room.

Don't be afraid to try it out. My TP has not been best at times, but the key is respect your own judgement. You can't earn all the pips, so let's be happy with even a tiny profit.
  • #93
  • Oct 18, 2010 12:31am Oct 18, 2010 12:31am
Question:
How you find the "trading setup" instead, it seems you're trading breakout?
Where do you find those S/R to trade? Do you observe candlestick? Price Action like Pinbar?

My Opinion:
Yes, "breakout" is about the essence of my "setup". But not necessarily. Because I don't want to be "tied down" by a single strategy, it'd have limit my perception on the market. I'd always like to think of other possibilities before getting into positions, though breakout is my favourite thus far (because typically my trading hours began at the later part of Asian session, which normally have smaller ranges).

And yes, I do observe candlesticks, price actions, and especially dojis in volitaile periods (on both H1 and M15) because its could act as powerful S/R that isn't getting as much credit.

With regard to "how to find S/R" or "PA", etc, the key is to look but not to crack your head. Get the feel, where did the price got rejected? Where was the range with consolidation? Is there a channel? Was there a doji in high volatile sessions (it could be a very good S/R)? etc

Like I said, its not hard science, the market is alive! So you should get the feel, and setup accordingly. You may go for breakouts or buy in dips.

Don't be afraid to lose. Don't be stressed. Don't take my word for it. Demo it yourself and you'll know what I meant.
  • #94
  • Oct 18, 2010 2:37am Oct 18, 2010 2:37am
Quoting baronfei
I think you could put it that way. Though I don't really think about it from that perspective.

My experience is that as long as you have 4 or 5 smaller (visually) candles, and some S/R levels from previous days, you have already got half the ticket into the market.
I am going to sound really stupid but why do you need the smaller candles?
  • #95
  • Oct 18, 2010 3:10am Oct 18, 2010 3:10am
Quoting >Apocalypto<
so randomly ruining threads is fun for you, you made great arguments but I think they have gone a little to far now? this was a good thread till about page 4 when it it took it's normal evolution at FF..........
You don't think you're being overdramatic? Even my lone "off-topic" post was related to the point of reality versus perception, which I think is the centre of "art versus science". Doesn't hurt to correct historical misconceptions along the way .
  • #96
  • Oct 18, 2010 5:40am Oct 18, 2010 5:40am
Quoting Delite
I am going to sound really stupid but why do you need the smaller candles?
Don't worry Because breakouts often occur after smaller candles...
  • #97
  • Oct 18, 2010 8:18am Oct 18, 2010 8:18am
Some people in this thread proposed that the profitable traders have "scientific" and objective systems that gives them the profitable edge. If there were any scientific method which was successful there would be not one but many profitable trading robots. A trading robot can never be profitable consistently unless you can somehow connect it's decision making to the "One".

From Jack Schwager's The New Market Wizards:

One of the traders
I interviewed, an individual who had made several hundred million dollars in trading profits for his firm, felt
that the resulting chapter, which contained a lot of copy related to intuition, dreams, Eastern philosophy, and
trading anecdotes, presented an image of him that would be viewed askance by his corporate clients. I
prevailed upon him, however, to allow me to use the following excerpt anonymously, as I felt it offered an
unusual and insightful perspective on trading.
==== I still don't understand your trading method. How could you make these huge sums of money by just
watching the screen? ====
There was no system to it. It was nothing more than, "I think the market is going up, so I'm going to
buy." "It's gone up enough, so I'm going to sell." It was completely impulsive. I didn't sit down and formulate
any trading plan. I don't know where the intuition comes from, and there are times when it goes away.
==== How do you recognize when it goes away? ====
When I'm wrong three times in a row, I call time out. Then I paper trade for a while.
==== For how long do you paper trade? ====
Until I think I'm in sync with the market again. Every market has a rhythm, and our job as traders is to
get in sync with that rhythm. I'm not really trading when I'm doing those trades. There's trading being done,
but I* m not doing it.
==== What do you mean you're not doing it? ====
There's buying and selling going on, but it's just going through me. It's like my personality and ego are
not there. I don't even get a sense of satisfaction on these trades. It's absolutely that objective. Did you ever
read Zen and the Art of Archery?
==== No, I have to admit, I missed that one. ====
The essence of the idea is that you have to leam to let the arrow shoot itself. There's no ego involved. It's
not, "I'm shooting the arrow, and I'm releasing it." Rather, the arrow is shot, and it's always right.
The same concept applies to trading. There's no sense of self at all. There's just an awareness of what will
happen. The trick is to differentiate between what you want to happen and what you know will happen. The
intuition knows what will happen.
In trading, just as in archery, whenever there is effort, force, straining, snuggling, or trying, it's wrong.
You're out of sync; you're out of harmony with the market. The perfect trade is one that requires no effort.


Human brain isn't designed to know what is going to happen. It is designed to know what has happened.

Science is the new religion.
  • #98
  • Oct 18, 2010 10:54am Oct 18, 2010 10:54am
Quoting baronfei
Don't worry Because breakouts often occur after smaller candles...

Thank you!
  • #99
  • Oct 18, 2010 11:32pm Oct 18, 2010 11:32pm
Quoting DanyalDenyo
Some people in this thread proposed that the profitable traders have "scientific" and objective systems that gives them the profitable edge. If there were any scientific method which was successful there would be not one but many profitable trading robots. A trading robot can never be profitable consistently unless you can somehow connect it's decision making to the "One".

From Jack Schwager's The New Market Wizards:

One of the traders
[i]I interviewed, an individual who had made several hundred million dollars in trading profits...
That's probably one of the most important concepts a trader could ever get on FF. Thumbs up!
  • #100
  • Oct 19, 2010 12:24am Oct 19, 2010 12:24am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU101019.jpg Size: 140 KB


This is my setup for the day. If you wan to trade my calls just go to my blog. I'd like this thread to be solely for discussion of the concept, so that newcomers would hopefully find it easier to catch up with our dicussions.

Thanks. Have a good day.
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