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James16 is not credible

  • #821
  • Sep 28, 2010 9:31pm Sep 28, 2010 9:31pm
Quoting Stitch961
Most of what I've read in this thread is silly, at least to me.
Consider this;

1. Most of the scams we see on the internet are put forth with a really great sounding advertising campaign. This stuff is usually expertly written by people having a lot of experience writing this sort of thing and getting people to buy. J16 has no such campaign; if anyone elects to join the pf it is strictly by work of mouth.

Think about it.
Just because I always like playing devil's advocate....

First let me say... have you ever been on this forum? Have you ever visted the under evaluation thread before this? Have you read any of the threads which were later proven to be commercial?

To do what you have suggested above would be total and utter suicide for anyone trying to drive herds of users to their trading portal.
#1 You would instantly have Twee in your business.
#2 You would instantly lose credibility to even the most noobied of noobies.

You see a much smarter plan(in relation to trading education portals)would be to spend some time gathering up disciples.. next step spend some time posting materials on price action and "naked" trading. Next step would be to mention that you are opening a side project to help forum members individually. But the execution of this step is critical... it must appear unbelievably geniune. Often the only way to achieve this credibility is TIME.
  • #822
  • Sep 28, 2010 9:36pm Sep 28, 2010 9:36pm
Quoting fxbillie
See these:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=198556 or the one done by Mr. Smith as in here

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=104974

If nothing is done, perhaps FF management should bin the thread, because enough has been said by both sides and nothing will be achieved. Just my humble 2 cents on this thread & its purpose.
Surely you jest about those journals proving anything or showing anything? First one last post I saw on there he was in the red after one year. 2nd one... well nvm...

No offense to either of these individuals intended but i would definitely not want potential customers driven to those journals.

Your last point is spot on heh.
  • #823
  • Sep 28, 2010 10:49pm Sep 28, 2010 10:49pm
Quoting Sim
...
you don't argue with your sports coach because he doesn't have a proven track record in the past, you take him for what he is. you don't argue with your kindergarten child's maths teacher because he doesn't have a degree in maths
...
sports (& school) analogy

a few related stories...
in my country
*there are MANY (actually, i think all) teachers who get underpaid & yet her/his students partake of her/his salary (that's passion & dedication)

*there are teachers who are not qualified/underqualified to teach. these teachers, either are kids/teenagers/young adults whose passion is to teach fellow students/younger kids & whose got no choice since there are no willing or available teachers in their areas. (far flung, very isolated areas)
Do these kids/teenagers/young adults have credentials? NO.

*there are teachers who did not undergo teaching exams/certifications/higher studies, but they produce good/very good students (despite the situation) & they teach very well

there is at least 1 fellow trader here (a missionary) who has been to a place here (mentioned to me via PM last year) & i believe he can attest to 1 of the situations i've mentioned above.

back in college/university, i had a male gymnastics teacher. i did not ask for his credentials, if he was a good/successful teacher.
nevertheless, i respected him & attended his class, with NO questions asked.
if i didnt find him credible or if he cant provide evidence of good track record or even if he is full f crap, it would be absurd & impossible for me to request for a different teacher or to transfer to a different class.
at least, in the J16PF's case, one can decide to join or not.

knowledge is intangible. so the value u get from knowledge (whether u join a paid group or not, or from whatever source) is trader-dependent/a matter of perspective.
  • #824
  • Sep 29, 2010 2:20am Sep 29, 2010 2:20am
Quoting Deusomega
Surely you jest about those journals proving anything or showing anything? First one last post I saw on there he was in the red after one year. 2nd one... well nvm...

No offense to either of these individuals intended but i would definitely not want potential customers driven to those journals.

Your last point is spot on heh.
I listed those two journals for illustrations only. They may not be the most experienced traders to represent J16 method. In fact, ya, the first one seems to be a young guy with little experienced in trading. If any one is to evaluate J16 method and its validity, it is best to look at trades taken by experienced traders using J16 methods, not just experienced in using J16 rules, but also well versed with the market and its moods. That will give the method a fair chance to prove its validity.
  • #825
  • Sep 29, 2010 6:49am Sep 29, 2010 6:49am
Quoting fxbillie
I listed those two journals for illustrations only. They may not be the most experienced traders to represent J16 method. In fact, ya, the first one seems to be a young guy with little experienced in trading. If any one is to evaluate J16 method and its validity, it is best to look at trades taken by experienced traders using J16 methods, not just experienced in using J16 rules, but also well versed with the market and its moods. That will give the method a fair chance to prove its validity.
So is it the J16 method that is seperating out these "experienced" traders from losing or rather their own time with the market? :nerd:
  • #826
  • Sep 29, 2010 7:27am Sep 29, 2010 7:27am
Quoting Deusomega
So is it the J16 method that is seperating out these "experienced" traders from losing or rather their own time with the market? :nerd:
I think he means that J16 method does work; if it doesn't work for someone, it is due to some insufficiencies of that person. Not sure if I understand it correctly.
  • #827
  • Sep 29, 2010 8:29am Sep 29, 2010 8:29am
"First let me say... have you ever been on this forum? Have you ever visted the under evaluation thread before this? Have you read any of the threads which were later proven to be commercial?" (quote)


Yes, yes and yes!!
Hej.
  • #828
  • Sep 29, 2010 11:46am Sep 29, 2010 11:46am
As Jim put is there has been a huge spike in subscribers. This is just the opposite of what the OP intentions were. I guess any PR is good PR. Now the conspiracy theorist in me says this may had been a troll thread started to incite emotional. Hence a spike in traffic to Jim's site. Think people follow the money.
  • #829
  • Sep 29, 2010 12:45pm Sep 29, 2010 12:45pm
Quoting GubyIQ
I even recommended 'trend following' by Covel, as one of the ten books one can buy for the $129 j16 charges.
From the reviews that I've read, Mr Covel's book is big on trader anecdotes (Van Tharp calls it the 'Market Wizards' book on trend following), and short on methodological substance.

But have you seen Covel's website?

He not only sells books, but also seminars, and DVD-heavy courses that range from $1,297 to $2,997. And there's no free forum thread; no opportunity to bale out after paying one monthly installment; no guarantee that the material is forex-specific; and any mentorship Q&A is restricted to 18 months' worth of e-mail support.

The material looks like little more than a re-packaging of turtle trading methods, for which there's plenty of free material elsewhere.

It also looks like his marketing campaign is much more hard-core and extensive than J16's. He's hired some big names (Larry Hite, Jim Rogers, etc) to help sell his material. Writing books is a sure-fire way to reach a large audience; in fact, he's recently released a revised edition.

It wouldn't surprise me if Mr Covel makes more money from selling education than he does from trading himself. And I very much doubt that he publishes audited accounts to satisfy skeptics; instead, the 'Performance' page on his site shows a graph of what a certain Bill Dunn made by trading (unspecified) trend following methods since 1974.
  • #830
  • Sep 29, 2010 1:40pm Sep 29, 2010 1:40pm
@hanover

Covel states on his website that he's an entrepeneur, author, documentary filmmaker. you're paying for interviews, mentoring etc with known and proven successful traders. what he's doing is very transparent. He doesn't claim he's a big successful trader. he refers the reader to proven big, successful traders.

compare that with j16...we know nothing about the man. Just like in the jacko case, he claims that he trades for a living, has 30 years of experience and is a big and successful trader. That's why people pay him, they hope to become the icon they believe this guy is. when you ask him about backing up his claims, you get stories about his family and his old kness.

I find it insulting to compare people like edwin le fevre, jack schwager, michael covel, who bring the big traders closer to the general public with their books, dvds etc, with the ones like j16.
The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.
  • #831
  • Sep 29, 2010 1:48pm Sep 29, 2010 1:48pm
Quoting kk007
I think he means that J16 method does work; if it doesn't work for someone, it is due to some insufficiencies of that person. Not sure if I understand it correctly.
It seems from posters who had used J16 method, there are successful ones and there are losing ones. What tells them apart? Perhaps individual experiences or personal traits, or whether some not applying the method correctly. So that is why Jim says you need to demo trade 6 months winning before you trade live. This is probably true about any strategies or methods. That 6 months adds to the experiences of what works and what not with the method at different market condition. Perhaps those who are successful have used the method enough times to get better winning %.
  • #832
  • Sep 29, 2010 1:50pm Sep 29, 2010 1:50pm
I see the J16 dogs have been all rounded up from the J16 site to help their master. J16 sent out some very dodgy post move videos to members (I'm a member) to try and crawl some of his name back. Too late, members are sick of these post moves, all after the fact. Soon he will be talking about starting a fund, Jacko comes to mind, watch out people the Snake Oil Salesman and his Dogs are looking for more 'wet behind the ear' noobs to line his pockets.

The Huts show great resemblance, and values as the Dogs Master J16, their hero. How sad and stupid some people are.

The net is closing.................
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  • #833
  • Sep 29, 2010 2:18pm Sep 29, 2010 2:18pm
Quoting PA Trader
I see the J16 dogs have been all rounded up from the J16 site to help their master. J16 sent out some very dodgy post move videos to members (I'm a member) to try and crawl some of his name back. Too late, members are sick of these post moves, all after the fact. Soon he will be talking about starting a fund, Jacko comes to mind, watch out people the Snake Oil Salesman and his Dogs are looking for more 'wet behind the ear' noobs to line his pockets.

The Huts show great resemblance, and values as the Dogs Master J16, their hero. How sad and stupid...

PA trader, if you don't try, you will never succeed. You've been here since march, how can you possible come to the conclusion that the j16 method is a scam? You should barely be past the demo stage.....
Anyway, I wish you luck. Whatever your next venture is, I hope you give it your full attention and respect. Otherwise, just don't even bother. You're just wasting time. GL
  • #834
  • Sep 29, 2010 2:34pm Sep 29, 2010 2:34pm
I'm a life time member on J16 site, take your bone and chew it somewhere else. I expose Conmen. I see you're either on his payroll or haven't yet noticed he's had your wallet out of your back pocket, you will notice it one day, as all J16 did, was to copy the work of Pring, and you can get this info free over the net. Pring was the inventor of the Pinbar, and he covers a lot of other methods too.

J16 has no history of his trades, no proof that he even trades what he preaches, think about this.
  • #835
  • Sep 29, 2010 2:53pm Sep 29, 2010 2:53pm
i read this entire thread and there are some interesting observations on both sides of the argument. I was a member of j16 for about 6 months and i did learn a lot on the private forum.

What a lot of people fail to realize is that unless you get into strong trends and STAY with them you will not make money, does not matter what method you use.

I see all these discussions about pin bars and what not. The entry is very small part of the trade. Staying with the trend is very difficult to do. That is why most people can't trade. The patience is just not there.

What i noticed is that Jim never calls a trade before hand. However even if he did how many people can take 10 trades and stay with the one or two that turn into a trend. VERY FEW.
  • #836
  • Sep 29, 2010 3:00pm Sep 29, 2010 3:00pm
Quoting PA Trader
I'm a life time member on J16 site, take your bone and chew it somewhere else. I expose Conmen. I see you're either on his payroll or haven't yet noticed he's had your wallet out of your back pocket, you will notice it one day, as all J16 did, was to copy the work of Pring, and you can get this info free over the net. Pring was the inventor of the Pinbar, and he covers a lot of other methods too.

J16 has no history of his trades, no proof that he even trades what he preaches, think about this.
No, really? He credits pring on the front page of his thread. You seem like the majority of peeps, can't do any real DD. Its no wonder you had trouble trading his method. As stated, I wish you luck though.
  • #837
  • Sep 29, 2010 4:54pm Sep 29, 2010 4:54pm
Quoting GubyIQ
Covel states on his website that he's an entrepeneur, author, documentary filmmaker. you're paying for interviews, mentoring etc with known and proven successful traders...........
Fair enough. Thanks for setting me straight about Mr Covel. I haven't read his book, only reviews. I've read a number of the 'turtle' books though (Curtis Faith etc).
  • #838
  • Sep 30, 2010 2:27am Sep 30, 2010 2:27am
Quoting Jlr
No, really? He credits pring on the front page of his thread. You seem like the majority of peeps, can't do any real DD. Its no wonder you had trouble trading his method. As stated, I wish you luck though.
Who said I had trouble trading his (Prings actually) methods? Read my posts again, I expose conmen, these are people who sell methods without providing proof that they actually trade the methods that they are selling to desperate people. No realtime trading lessons, no historic proof (there are reputable trading websites that can monitor your progress and keep your details private) that he's even a trader. Think about this, or not, but to question the persons qualifications who are selling you a method is the first step to becoming a real trader.
The net is closing, people are waking up.
  • #839
  • Sep 30, 2010 2:50am Sep 30, 2010 2:50am
Quoting PA Trader
I'm a life time member on J16 site, take your bone and chew it somewhere else.
That was one thing I was wondering this whole time, if an actual member of the group had an opposite opinion to the typical member
  • #840
  • Sep 30, 2010 3:11am Sep 30, 2010 3:11am
i think PA_trader is right, there is no proof James is a trader at this time, he probably gave up trading .... and concentrating on marketing and selling products
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