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No more BS - What have you learned?

  • #81
  • Sep 10, 2010 3:39am Sep 10, 2010 3:39am
Hmm, wisdom of life, wisdom of trading ... every coin has two sides. Some say, perfection is when you just can't add anything more. Others say something is perfect when there is nothing left to take away. I believe in simplicity so I vote for the later option.

I don't think it has to boil down to someone being a sloppy fuck, a bad person, an old self and a new self. It's just that rules of the market and life are different. To mention but one difference, there's a lot of safety belts in life. Family, friends, people around you are likely to hold you back from doing really stupid things. And in the markets? Nobody's gonna hold you back from going all in.

The rules are different, and that's it. We're constantly learning the rules of life (years, decades...) and why would it be different with the markets. Years of learning baby, if you're lucky.

I respect the opinion of others, but as time goes by, I care less and less for this unhinged beast ... it's not my teacher, it's not my passion, it's just ... I don't know, ticks up and down in a random fashion ... no, don't bother telling me it's not random ... for me it fucking is ... and it has only one rule as far as I understand ... an object in motion tends to remain in motion ...
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #82
  • Sep 10, 2010 4:13am Sep 10, 2010 4:13am
Quoting spekitox
I respect the opinion of others, but as time goes by, I care less and less for this unhinged beast ... it's not my teacher, it's not my passion, it's just ... I don't know, ticks up and down in a random fashion ... no, don't bother telling me it's not random ... for me it fucking is ... and it has only one rule as far as I understand ... an object in motion tends to remain in motion ...
There was a very short time when I thought it could be completely random, or even worse, a total scam in itself. I don't think that way at all now... and I know you said don't bother telling you it's not. So I have one question...

Why do you trade if you think it's complete randomness? How do you expect to harness or control chaos to profit? (a sincere question)

I like your thinking on simplicity. I disagree that trading is far different from rules of life of course, because it is life that is behind it and created it. I think you can argue to be successful in both it is exactly alike.
  • #83
  • Edited 12:01pm Sep 10, 2010 4:16am | Edited 12:01pm
Quoting vx13
Because trading is sometimes seen as majorly psychological, many traders find themselves applying the wisdom of trading to the wisdom of life.

So go ahead and apply these back and forth as you please.
Another list.
  • #84
  • Sep 10, 2010 4:50am Sep 10, 2010 4:50am
hi

I my opinion,

There are many ways to trade forex.. one needs to find its own approach to market and not follow someone else's.stay away from interactive forum.. and dont wait for someone else to give you signal... one need to find its own edge which fits his risk profile. Nobody is right or wrong at any point of time unless proven by market and not to go against your intuition cuz if you do, then your are more likely to mess with trade.
What's worth doing is worth doing for money
  • #85
  • Sep 10, 2010 5:06am Sep 10, 2010 5:06am
No worries bud. When I say random, I mean its complexity is way above my ability to understand. I simply admit that I have no clue and I'm not trying to come up with a flashy explanation for price movements. There are always rules that apply and patterns that emerge but you never know in advance, only in hindsight. There are levels of interest but whatever happens inbetween, is random for me.

There is one thing you can tell with 100% certainty. Are you in the green, or are you in the red. Is it moving your way, or is it moving against you.

I like Mr. Medici's trading - morning breakouts, and simple SR. It holds or it doesn't. Simple.

I respect your views on life & trading, but I generally like to keep those two apart.
Yes, you're right, there are a few common rules - one would be that you have to work real hard to achieve anything.

Quoting Monroe
There was a very short time when I thought it could be completely random, or even worse, a total scam in itself. I don't think that way at all now... and I know you said don't bother telling you it's not. So I have one question...

Why do you trade if you think it's complete randomness? How do you expect to harness or control chaos to profit? (a sincere question)

I like your thinking on simplicity. I disagree that trading is far different from rules of life of course, because it is life that is behind it and created it. I think you can argue to...
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #86
  • Sep 10, 2010 5:11am Sep 10, 2010 5:11am
Quoting mr.marketz
Absolutely valid, Hanover........
Many thanks for your reply.
  • #87
  • Sep 10, 2010 5:27am Sep 10, 2010 5:27am
1 - most technical analysis is rubbish (patterns,indicators,candlesticks) ie no better than random and certainly not a big enough edge to be tradeable in the long run. you will notice that most TA is presented without any statistical back-up just a few well choosen examples. Same goes for most "trading systems".

2 - trading comes down to being able to predict what other people, who you have never met, will do in the future. If you are long you are hoping that other people will buy at higher prices in the future.

3 - Profittable trading is not as exciting as it seems. Its about sticking to the few things that work well for you. Putting a trade on, taking a profit or loss and then regardless of what happened waiting for the next opportunity.

4 - there is a fine line between confidence, over confidence and delusion.
  • #88
  • Edited 5:59am Sep 10, 2010 5:49am | Edited 5:59am
Quoting spekitox
No worries bud. When I say random, I mean its complexity is way above my ability to understand. I simply admit that I have no clue and I'm not trying to come up with a flashy explanation for price movements. There are always rules that apply and patterns that emerge but you never know in advance, only in hindsight. There are levels of interest but whatever happens inbetween, is random for me.

There is one thing you can tell with 100% certainty. Are you in the green, or are you in the red. Is it moving your way, or is it moving against you.

I...
Cool man, yea I understand where you are coming from. Definitely keep it simple. That is on my list of "what I have learned" without question.

I stripped down all the bullshit, I have charts up... plain simple small charts for a few pairs just for visual reference on levels and what have you, instead of just purely watching digits flicker on the quote panel. I could however do it completely without the charts as I rely on info not found there at all, so really they just make it easier to monitor. Price movement is very easy to explain and understand really... it's simply people placing orders, buying and selling, whatever there reasons may be as there are many, but there are reasons... and people that can move the market have information.

So to me, it's just simply not random, as I have seen this more then enough times to realize it. I understand how they have to do it. How it moves and why it moves like that, and a good reason for why it's going where it's going and what would most likely happen when it gets there, and how price action will reflect that. When I don't know why it's doing what it's doing, I stay out, as it is as good as random to me. Of course it doesn't always do what I think it will (when i think it will), as other things could happen that are unknown to me, and since I have to limit risk, I have to take the losses sometimes and thats part of the game. Which also is to why I like to limit my exposure in the market.

I also trade only liquid times, mostly frank-london for a few hours and I'm done. To me it is very very simple now.

Happy trading to all.
  • #89
  • Sep 10, 2010 6:42am Sep 10, 2010 6:42am
Monroe, thanks, this was a nice post, really.
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #90
  • Edited 7:32am Sep 10, 2010 6:49am | Edited 7:32am
1 - A line I've read somewhere said, "the difference between a trader and a successful trader is 10,000 hours." - hard work will get you there. Pay now or pay later through experience, learning, and exposure. Either way, there is no shortcut.

2 - To gauge your "real" capability as a beginner, stick to one leverage / volume. For example, no matter what - win loss or draw, stay with 10K, 100K, etc when trading and do NOT change to double up just to cover. Stay with ONLY one as a beginner. This will tell you your "true" pip value. Do this successfully for 2-3 months. People say 6 months or longer, but this factor was never mentioned before as I know people would double up or even more. Doubling up to cover losses is gambling.

3 - The belief to financial prosperity is within grasp, how much do you want it? There are numerous people who make money very easily daily, but they paid their dues.

4 - Listen to the successful traders, and do your own testing

5 - Have proof of success to those you listen to - here are current trade for the day...

http://i51.tinypic.com/1zp6zyf.gif

6 - Last but not least, have peace in your life to achieve complete harmony - which translates into your financial / trading life - work on being good too.
  • #91
  • Sep 10, 2010 7:26am Sep 10, 2010 7:26am
Quoting spekitox
Monroe, thanks, this was a nice post, really.
Cool, no problem.
  • #92
  • Sep 10, 2010 8:58am Sep 10, 2010 8:58am
Another couple of points I wish to add comment on:

- When do you know when to get out? I know when to get out when the system I rely on changed or tells me I am wrong. If you have a good system you've put together through your discovery, you will "know" to trust it and help you minimize any loss. If you don't have this, you haven't found it yet (for you).

- Technical Analysis: it works with proper interpretation, and provides additional enhancement to your probability of success. It's all about probabilities.



Quoting pinoyboy
1 - A line I've read somewhere said, "the difference between a trader and a successful trader is 10,000 hours." - hard work will get you there. Pay now or pay later through experience, learning, and exposure. Either way, there is no shortcut.

2 - To gauge your "real" capability as a beginner, stick to one leverage / volume. For example, no matter what - win loss or draw, stay with 10K, 100K, etc when trading and do NOT change to double up just to cover. Stay with ONLY one as a beginner. This will tell you your "true" pip value. Do this successfully...
  • #93
  • Sep 10, 2010 10:59am Sep 10, 2010 10:59am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Im with Craig on this one blah blah blah seriously whatever

what you described is TA anyway is it not? Order flow, market flow

whatever -
For you it's blah blah.

For others it's not TA but the fundamental basics to become a serious trader.
  • #94
  • Sep 10, 2010 11:28am Sep 10, 2010 11:28am
Quoting UnnamedPlayr
For you it's blah blah.

For others it's not TA but the fundamental basics to become a serious trader.
UnnamedPlayr,

I recall the comment you made that seems to be in question. Imo, I thought it was well stated. I think Cindy was already agitated with some previous posts, and that's why it came off a little harsh. I'm certain nothing was meant by it in terms of offending anyone.
  • #95
  • Sep 10, 2010 12:02pm Sep 10, 2010 12:02pm
The conversation between spekitox and monroe brings something to mind.

Dopey and a few others relate to my previous post about markets leading to a pseudo-enlightenment. While others feel that it's a bunch of hogwash.

We're all right.

Different people relate to different things, due to a variety of personalaties and experiences. Case in point...

Army dudes: these guys usually make good traders. Why? Because they are disciplined, and adhere to rules. They have already been broken down, and properly rebuilt by the machine (military). They are far less likely to see the significance in the market being a teacher.

Civilian dudes: these guys usually struggle with a rule based process. They never had any "army-like" discipline growing up, and their need to react to impulses is very strong. In their case the market is a great teacher because it robs them of their freedom to act on their impulses (aka - takes their money).
  • #96
  • Sep 10, 2010 12:07pm Sep 10, 2010 12:07pm
Quoting mr.marketz
The conversation between spekitox and monroe brings something to mind.

Dopey and a few others relate to my previous post about markets leading to a pseudo-enlightenment. While others feel that it's a bunch of hogwash.

We're all right.

Different people relate to different things, due to a variety of personalaties and experiences. Case in point...

Army dudes: these guys usually make good traders. Why? Because they are disciplined, and adhere to rules. They have already been broken down, and properly rebuilt by the machine (military)....
Agreed, sports players could also come under that army role
  • #97
  • Sep 10, 2010 1:54pm Sep 10, 2010 1:54pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
What you just described is still TA -
IMHO, the open, high and low are not TECHNICAL. Maybe I am mistaken.
  • #98
  • Sep 10, 2010 2:10pm Sep 10, 2010 2:10pm
Quoting spekitox
...no, don't bother telling me it's not random ... for me it fucking is ... and it has only one rule as far as I understand ... an object in motion tends to remain in motion ...
Whether or not the market is random does not matter because you and I do NOT know what will happen next in the market.

Motion is the key. An entry either starts making or losing money from the get go. Making money means you protect profit. Losing money mean you must protect principal or wait it out until you start making money.
  • #99
  • Sep 10, 2010 6:41pm Sep 10, 2010 6:41pm
Quoting UnnamedPlayr
For you it's blah blah.

For others it's not TA but the fundamental basics to become a serious trader.
ok
Time hides Nothing
  • #100
  • Sep 10, 2010 6:59pm Sep 10, 2010 6:59pm
Quoting tjfxtrader
IMHO, the open, high and low are not TECHNICAL. Maybe I am mistaken.
Well by my own definition:

Fundermental Analysis : Using macroeconomic information to determine over or undervalued instruments

Technical analysis : Basically anything chart related that invloves the use of historic data or price data to determine direction - This includes orderflow etc

But thats just me - After making this thread it is apparent everyone seems to have teir own definition

Who woulda guessed!
Time hides Nothing
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