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Thoughts on 50:1 Leverage

  • #141
  • Sep 6, 2010 5:51pm Sep 6, 2010 5:51pm
Quoting kibescorp

It means you now have HALF AS MUCH wiggle room as you did before.
Why? The only possible reason for wanting to have the availability of low broker margin requirement is so you can keep less cash deposited with your broker, but you still need to have that amount of capital allocated to trading otherwise your risk percentage is going to be ridiculous! This really isn't a complicated concept to understand, surely.


Quoting kibescorp

Every single one of those ORDERS (not positions, JUST orders) will now require TWICE as much margin as before, not when and if they are triggered, but WHEN THEY ARE SET.

EVERY single open order you have at one time, regardless of whether or not they will even be triggered, counts towards that total leverage.

Leverage isn't just about what position(s) you have open, the sum of all your open orders are also included when the margin is calculated.
lol, that's the first time I've ever heard that one!

Please can you provide a link to this new rule which says pending orders require margin.
  • #142
  • Sep 6, 2010 5:54pm Sep 6, 2010 5:54pm
Quoting Slack

But that doesn't stop you from trying
My wife would probably agree, just it doesn't apply in this instance though, lol

Margin for pending orders......jeez, I mean come on, seriously?
  • #143
  • Edited 6:34pm Sep 6, 2010 6:23pm | Edited 6:34pm
Quoting kibescorp

Lowering the leverage from 100:1 to 50:1 means TWICE as much margin is now going to be required (locked up) when you make a trade.

For those of you who still don't fucking understand what exactly that means, let me once again make it very clear:

It means you now have HALF AS MUCH wiggle room as you did before.
This is the summary of the whole issue.


Reducing leverage from 100:1 to 50:1 reduces a trader's manouvrabilty by half for the same margin and If 10:1 by ten times less.

You don't need rocket science to know who benefits when traders ability to strategize is exponentially reduced.

I rest my case.

King
  • #144
  • Edited 6:46pm Sep 6, 2010 6:30pm | Edited 6:46pm
Quoting kingsurfer

This is the summary of the whole issue.
Reducing leverage from 100:1 to 50:1 reduces a trader's manouvrabilty by half for the same margin and If 10:1 by ten times less.

You don't need rocket science to know who benefits when traders ability to strategize is exponentially reduced.
The solution seems fairly simple, just move funds you had set aside for trading into your bröker trading account. There, no reduction in 'manouvrabilty' or your ability to 'strategize'. Oh no wait, you didn't have the funds to start off with!

I think the bottom line 'summary of the whole issue' is some of you guys are underfunded and overleveraged, that's the problem, and apparently that's the reason for this reduction in leverage in the first place! Ironic, huh.

Quoting kingsurfer

I rest my case.
Case? You call that a case! Well I know who not to call if I ever get busted for something, lol


Every day the 95% stats become more believable, and more understandable
  • #145
  • Sep 6, 2010 6:55pm Sep 6, 2010 6:55pm
Quoting Monroe
lol... if you need over 100:1 even over 50:1 IMHO your strategy sucks. but hey that's just my opinion. good luck nanningbobbing the market.

There you go telling people how to trade..

If a strategy makes serious money year after year after year using high leverage it SUCKS?...wow

Mind you, I would NEVER say "A strategy making money year after year after using lower leverage sucks"
  • #146
  • Edited 7:11pm Sep 6, 2010 7:00pm | Edited 7:11pm
Quoting pipmutt
I think the bottom line 'summary of the whole issue' is some of you guys are underfunded and overleveraged, that's the problem, and apparently that's the reason for this reduction in leverage in the first place! Ironic, huh
This proves you are not looking at the big picture.

If you were, you would see that lowering leverage at the rate its going could take it to 1:1 and I would BET my account using a 1000:1 leverage that you do not trade with a $500k(USD) Forex trading account.
  • #147
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:04pm Sep 6, 2010 7:04pm
Quoting kingsurfer
This is the summary of the whole issue.


Reducing leverage from 100:1 to 50:1 reduces a trader's manouvrabilty by half for the same margin and If 10:1 by ten times less.

You don't need rocket science to know who benefits when traders ability to strategize is exponentially reduced.

I rest my case.

King
agreed, feels like pissing in the wind...
  • #148
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:10pm Sep 6, 2010 7:10pm
Quoting akirax
There you go telling people how to trade..

If a strategy makes serious money year after year after year using high leverage it SUCKS?...wow

Mind you, I would NEVER say "A strategy making money year after year after using lower leverage sucks"
I never told anyone how to trade and I never will. I said my opinion about a garbage strategy. Making serious money are you? I said, good luck with that. Tell me where you're at the year after next... should be in quite a serious position, where you won't have over 50:1 leverage I assume, since you can afford to be with a decent broker finally. And that would have been before this law as well.

You guys are obviously under-capitalized trying to make the most money you possibly can while over-leveraged.
  • #149
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:17pm Sep 6, 2010 7:17pm
Quoting akirax

lowering leverage at the rate its going could take it to 1:1
lol, I doubt it.

Not really relevant but seeing as you brought it up, I have actually traded 1:1, before all this trading on margin exploded, with 2 and 3c spreads on the majors, practically tourist rate quotes, no charts, and just ceefax and teletext for company and a Reuters pager!

You guys don't know how good you've got it yet you still moan, tsk tsk, but the worst thing is you don't actually know what you're moaning about!

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious, you couldn't make up some of the stuff posted on this thread!
  • #150
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:31pm Sep 6, 2010 7:31pm
Quoting pipmutt
The solution seems fairly simple, just move funds you had set aside for trading into your bröker trading account. There, no reduction in 'manouvrabilty' or your ability to 'strategize'. Oh no wait, you didn't have the funds to start off with!

I think the bottom line 'summary of the whole issue' is some of you guys are underfunded and overleveraged, that's the problem, and apparently that's the reason for this reduction in leverage in the first place! Ironic, huh.

You do have a point(ish) ..... however, i prefer not to have all my funds sitting with my broker for a few very good reasons.
They are quite happy living in my equity trading account (and are tied up as stock trades) , in a house mortgage (im in Australia!). and i prefer to keep as much of my bank as possible away from uninsured brokers accounts (ie all USA based brokers !).

So the clever folk you have over there who are regulating you guys into oblivion have just handed a huge cash bonus to all overseas brokers in the name of protecting the public.
Even if the whole world was forced to abide by 50:1 (a wet dream of the USA regulators!) i would not go back to using one of the USA based brokers because i now need to be able to transfer funds in and out of my account quickly and cheaply ...... i now use a broker in Australia employing Australians ! ....no worries there !

So for me leverage is about efficient use of capital.......not wild gambling (and a newb is gonna be able to blow their account in a day ,even on 10:1 leverage !)

The solution was so simple......

New trader- 10:1 leverage and online education module to pass.

Been trading for a fair time - you can set your own up to a certain level.

Dodgy broker scams - Funds insurance for USA brokers

But instead....they killed your industry .
(the exchanges want your business perhaps ? or could it be some other reason ?)
  • #151
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:34pm Sep 6, 2010 7:34pm
Quoting pipmutt
Sounds like you're averaging. Sure, that works....until it doesn't.



Same comment to you as I made to kingsurfer above.


All you've got to do is the math, maybe you'll figure it out, or not.


Of course you are, it's hard to defend with logical argument something which you don't actually understand!
I see you've vouched for NanningBob in your profile. So you've read his thread, vouched for him and yet you think his way of trading (which requires more leverage) is flawed. I don't get it. Do the math you say. Ok,4600 pips last month 20,000 last year with worst DD at around 20%. That adds up nicely for me.
  • #152
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:45pm Sep 6, 2010 7:45pm
Quoting Rise

i prefer not to have all my funds sitting with my broker for a few very good reasons......and i prefer to keep as much of my bank as possible away from uninsured brokers accounts
I absolutely agree but that's not the reason some of these guys are moaning, they don't actually have the funds to begin with. I'm surprised regulators didn't address the safety of funds issue first before this reduction, who knows maybe it's coming.

Quoting Rise
So the clever folk you have over there who are regulating you guys into oblivion have just handed a huge cash bonus to all overseas brokers in the name of protecting the public.
Not so fast, I don't think we've had any decision on the extraterritorial jurisdiction issue yet. That aside, I doubt there will be a mass exodus away from US brokers. Maybe a few insignificant high-maintenance micro accounts will go, sure, but most mainstream brokers have a core of consistently profitable traders who trade volume, that's where the money is, not in processing nickel'n'dime trades for pikers, more trouble than they're worth I expect! And the other thing is they rarely last longer than five minutes anyway!

Apparently the majority trade below 50:1 so I doubt the broker's bottom line will be affected.

Quoting Rise

But instead....they killed your industry.
Not mine, I'm in UK

The legislation isn't just about leverage though, and the industry is very alive and well and will probably remain so for a while to come!
  • #153
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:55pm Sep 6, 2010 7:55pm
Quoting pipmutt
Maybe a few insignificant high-maintenance micro accounts will go, sure, but most mainstream brokers have a core of consistently profitable traders who trade volume, that's where the money is, not in processing nickel'n'dime trades for pikers, more trouble than they're worth I expect!
LOL! nice...
  • #154
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:56pm Sep 6, 2010 7:56pm
Quoting pipmutt
lol, I doubt it.

Not really relevant but seeing as you brought it up, I have actually traded 1:1, before all this trading on margin exploded, with 2 and 3c spreads on the majors, practically tourist rate quotes, no charts, and just ceefax and teletext for company and a Reuters pager!

You guys don't know how good you've got it yet you still moan, tsk tsk, but the worst thing is you don't actually know what you're moaning about!

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious, you couldn't make up some of the stuff posted on this thread!
AHH!!! now we see where you are coming from....It bothers you that when you started trading this market you had no leverage, no tools and it probably took you awhile to become profitable..

It urks you that a novice could start trading a high leverage account and by beginners luck or emerging skill that noob could potentially outperform ALL of your efforts in a much shorter amount of time and if skilled enough, make the proper corrections(eliminating bad trading habits and the like) while possibly doubling an account month after month...

Makes sense now....

"with 2 and 3c spreads on the majors, practically tourist rate quotes, no charts, and just ceefax and teletext for company and a Reuters pager!"

It must really get under your skin that most here, even a noobs have reuters, multiple brokers to choose from, charts, customizable charts, big charts, little charts, millions of colors to use on those charts, mutiple time frames, Japanese Candlesticks, Heikin-Ashi Candlesticks, Bars, Lines, Renko, Point and Figures, robots, forex chatrooms, forex signal subscription services, forex tweets, facebook forex, forex factory, youtube forex, skype forex, robots, EAs, email alerts, pager alerts, visual alerts, audible alerts, moving averages, entry stops, entry limits, OCOs(thats One Cancels Other) and thousands of other indicators AND at one time had HIGH LEVERAGES.

sux to be old school....
  • #155
  • Sep 6, 2010 7:58pm Sep 6, 2010 7:58pm
Quoting Toothman

I see you've vouched for NanningBob in your profile. So you've read his thread, vouched for him and yet you think his way of trading (which requires more leverage) is flawed. I don't get it. Do the math you say. Ok,4600 pips last month 20,000 last year with worst DD at around 20%. That adds up nicely for me.
lol, if only you understood how meaningless those figures are!

Nope, never read his thread, I rarely visit the strategies section, waste of time in my opinion. Can't comment on his strategy because I don't know what it is, although from what people have said in this thread it seems to be averaging with extremely small positions. On the face of it not an effective use of capital in my opinion.

As for the vouch, well it could have been for any number of reasons, I can't remember now, is that a problem for you then?
  • #156
  • Sep 6, 2010 8:00pm Sep 6, 2010 8:00pm
Quoting akirax
It must really get under your skin that most here, even a noobs have reuters, multiple brokers to choose from, charts, customizable charts, big charts, little charts, millions of colors to use on those charts, mutiple time frames, Japanese Candlesticks, Heikin-Ashi Candlesticks, Bars, Lines, Renko, Point and Figures, robots, forex chatrooms, forex signal [color=black][font=Verdana]subscription services, forex tweets, facebook forex, forex factory, youtube forex, skype forex, robots, EAs, email alerts, pager alerts, visual alerts, audible alerts,...
no it doesn't suck to be old school... 99% of all those "options" will get you nowhere and are only a hinderance to trading... funny how your chart probably looks.... drenched with pure horseshit... pathetic that you are even arguing about anything.
  • #157
  • Sep 6, 2010 8:02pm Sep 6, 2010 8:02pm
Quoting akirax
AHH!!! now we see where you are coming from....It bothers you that when you started trading this market you had no leverage, no tools and it probably took you awhile to become profitable..

It urks you that a novice could start trading a high leverage account and by beginners luck or emerging skill that noob could potentially outperform ALL of your efforts in a much shorter amount of time and if skilled enough, make the proper corrections(eliminating bad trading habits and the like) while possibly doubling an account month after month...

Makes...
lol, all that would be great except you're missing one important statistic.....allegedly 95% lose!

Hey, if you can't defend or justify your argument with reason and logic it's nothing to be embarrassed about, it seems not everyone has the ability to work a calculator!

Too funny....
  • #158
  • Sep 6, 2010 8:05pm Sep 6, 2010 8:05pm
Quoting Monroe
no it doesn't suck to be old school... 99% of all those "options" will get you nowhere and are only a hinderance to trading... funny how your chart probably looks.... drenched with pure horseshit... pathetic that you are even arguing about anything.

meaningless or not, it urks you that most have THE OPTION!
  • #159
  • Sep 6, 2010 8:06pm Sep 6, 2010 8:06pm
Quoting Monroe

LOL! nice...
lol, stuff their bröker won't tell them!

I guess it's a dilemma for brökers, they never know who will become consistent and trade seriously so they just have to tolerate all the dross.

lol, pikers, I love that word!



Jeez it's 2am, time to zzz

C'y'all, good trading!
  • #160
  • Sep 6, 2010 8:12pm Sep 6, 2010 8:12pm
Quoting pipmutt
lol, stuff their broker won't tell them!

I guess it's a dilemma for brokers, they never know who will become consistent and trade seriously so they just have to tolerate all the dross.

lol, pikers, I love that word!
Very true... poor brokers. I am sure they don't feel bad taking these fools money.

'piker' I agree, is an awesome word... haha. At one point in time years ago, I was just calling everyone a piker... substituting it for 'loser' lol. Just jokin' around of course, but I got it from a stock broking firm I used to work at.. it stuck with me.
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