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US citizens won't be able to have forex accounts overseas

  • #421
  • Sep 3, 2010 3:50pm Sep 3, 2010 3:50pm
Quoting azjeff
There are questions about whether or not they have jurisdiction over whether they tell us citizens with where and who they can trade with. That includes non us based brokers. From everything I have read they do not have that authority and if they try to enforce on it me then I will get an attorney' that will challenge them very quickly.

Regards,
Jeff
Hello azjeff...I totally agree with your sentiment. This reminds me a fair bit like what online poker has gone through, and how the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act was made to "prevent" US players from funding their accounts with offshore entities. I would not be surprised to see a similar situation develop with offshore forex trading. In my opinion, it is a waste of resources and does deflect from the real issues in the US financial system.

Regards,

Jeff
  • #422
  • Sep 3, 2010 5:27pm Sep 3, 2010 5:27pm
They cannot prevent a private citizen from opening and trading an account held with a foreign broker. If a foreign broker refuses to open an account for a citizen of the US then that is upto them.

I mentioned on another thread that you can easily open an account with a Swiss Forex Broker and trade upto 200:1 leverage. Your money will be held under Swiss Banking Regulations and Laws.

Under Swiss Law they are not allowed to divulge to third parties who owns the funds/account. Those third parties include the IRS, HMRC etc.

In 37 years a Swiss Court has only given permission on 3 occasions for a person to be named and connected to funds held in a Swiss Account. Out of those 3, only 1 was whereby the account was frozen and funds sezied. On that 1 occasion it was deemed by the court that the individual was a terroist and posed a serious risk.

Ofcourse I am sure the IRS and CTFC will try their hardest to prevent you from trading with an overseas broker but they cannot really enforce it.

And NO i am not Swiss.

Scoobs.
  • #423
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:09pm Sep 3, 2010 8:09pm
Quoting ecTrade
Hey, sounds like a plan. Just be sure and make it a class action suit. Not everyone can afford an attorney!
Great idea! Be sure to inform fellow traders if it comes to a law suit. We can put together resources to make it a big class action.
  • #424
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:10pm Sep 3, 2010 8:10pm
Quoting scooby-doo
Under Swiss Law they are not allowed to divulge to third parties who owns the funds/account. Those third parties include the IRS, HMRC etc.

In 37 years a Swiss Court has only given permission on 3 occasions for a person to be named and connected to funds held in a Swiss Account. Out of those 3, only 1 was whereby the account was frozen and funds sezied. On that 1 occasion it was deemed by the court that the individual was a terroist and posed a serious risk.
You missed a lot of news lately. Swiss ain't what used to be anymore...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ount-data.html

Except from wikipedia:

UBS was caught red-handed by the United States government offering tax evasion strategies, sending undercover bankers with encrypted computers to the United States. After it was caught, UBS paid a $780 million penalty and handed over hundreds of client files to American authorities.[8][9] In 2010, the Swiss and the United States governments negotiated an agreement allowing Swiss bank UBS to transmit to the US authorities information concerning 4,450 American clients of UBS suspected of tax evasion. [10][11]
  • #425
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:11pm Sep 3, 2010 8:11pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/bu...ess/19ubs.html

"UBS, the largest bank in Switzerland, agreed ... to divulge the names of well-heeled Americans whom the authorities suspect of using offshore accounts at the bank to evade taxes. The bank admitted conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service and agreed to pay $780 million to settle a sweeping federal investigation into its activities."


----

this was headline news quite a bit in the last year. Are you saying this did not go down?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #426
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:22pm Sep 3, 2010 8:22pm
Quoting Adal
You missed a lot of news lately. Swiss ain't what used to be anymore...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ount-data.html

Except from wikipedia:

UBS was caught red-handed by the United States government offering tax...
Since then most Swiss Banks have closed the shop for US Citizen and even for Swiss Citizen living in the US. Having said that this is only applicable for opening an account to park your money under your name. As far as I know you still can open an account with a Swiss Broker and they park your money under their name on behalf of yourself, provided you have past the stringed anti money laundering test. Having said that with the new rules in place passed by the US Congress I can only imagine that the Swiss Broker will shut the door for any US Citizen as they just don't want to get burnt anymore.

Cheers
  • #427
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:30pm Sep 3, 2010 8:30pm
"In a striking admission, UBS said that from 2000 through 2007, some of its private bankers and managers had “participated in a scheme to defraud the United States” and the I.R.S. by helping American clients set up and conceal offshore accounts. The scheme involved falsifying or not properly obtaining or filing certain tax forms required of both the bank and its clients."


A lot of people are outraged about the transgressions upon their "freedom" that any kind regulation represents. Taxes? How dare they! These assholes really just don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. They want to be "free" to say "fuck you" to virtually everybody else. They drive on the roads that their taxes built and when American blood must be shed to protect their true freedom they wave the flag, but damned if they have any kind of responsibility that necessarily accompanies that freedom, especially the responsibility to obey the law and pay their taxes.

Let's face it: if you don't pay your taxes ypu're just a thug and a traitor.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #428
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:31pm Sep 3, 2010 8:31pm
I spoke to Interbank today, they said funds must be removed from foreign accts by July 11. The US leverage will be 50:1 for majors and 20:1 for minors.
  • #429
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:40pm Sep 3, 2010 8:40pm
Quoting knucklehead
I spoke to Interbank today, they said funds must be removed from foreign accts by July 11. The US leverage will be 50:1 for majors and 20:1 for minors.
I doubt they know anymore than FXCM and they are waiting for clarification.
  • #430
  • Sep 3, 2010 8:50pm Sep 3, 2010 8:50pm
Quoting The Fool
"In a striking admission, UBS said that from 2000 through 2007, some of its private bankers and managers had “participated in a scheme to defraud the United States” and the I.R.S. by helping American clients set up and conceal offshore accounts. The scheme involved falsifying or not properly obtaining or filing certain tax forms required of both the bank and its clients."


A lot of people are outraged about the transgressions upon their "freedom" that any kind regulation represents. Taxes? How dare they! These assholes really just don't...
And also lets faced if you don't contribute to make a better society you are also just a thug and a traitor. By the way anybody here taking the calculator out to see how much on tax revenue will be missing in the coffins when the few Swissbanks close the door in the US?
  • #431
  • Sep 3, 2010 9:01pm Sep 3, 2010 9:01pm
Quoting Pipstrumpf
And also lets faced if you don't contribute to make a better society you are also just a thug and a traitor. By the way anybody here taking the calculator out to see how much on tax revenue will be missing in the coffins when the few Swissbanks close the door in the US?
Tax evasion is a clear cut crime. "Not contributing to society" - what does that even mean, how is it not utterly subjective, and so how would one enforce a law relating to it? If you have income, you owe tax: if you don't pay it, you're a criminal. Simple enough?

Yet another genius I find on this thread, which is a repository for the most ignorant trolls in this entire forum.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #432
  • Sep 3, 2010 9:13pm Sep 3, 2010 9:13pm
Quoting The Fool
Tax evasion is a clear cut crime. "Not contributing to society" - what does that even mean, how is it not utterly subjective, and so how would one enforce a law relating to it? If you have income, you owe tax: if you don't pay it, you're a criminal. Simple enough?

Yet another genius I find on this thread, which is a repository for the most ignorant trolls in this entire forum.
Thank you for you kind words, very appreciated. Keep using foul language on this forum, sure that will change something.

Good luck.
  • #433
  • Sep 3, 2010 9:58pm Sep 3, 2010 9:58pm
Quoting freden
Quoting ecTrade
Hey, sounds like a plan. Just be sure and make it a class action suit. Not everyone can afford an attorney!
Great idea! Be sure to inform fellow traders if it comes to a law suit. We can put together resources to make it a big class action.
Yeah, maybe that's what they need, is somebody to challenge them?
  • #434
  • Edited 10:59pm Sep 3, 2010 10:32pm | Edited 10:59pm
Quoting fxoxford
this is not the point why should my country promote global competition and then shut it down when they see more u.s. traders didn't like the laws they have pass, traders want something diffrent so they go where they think they can trade the way the want too and not be limit.
If you got a problem with it then run for public office to help change the laws. Other wise shut the hell up. Whine about the non-existant tax increases you are not going to get but think you will.

If you want to blame someone blame Wall Street which almost tanked the worldwide economy out of unregulated greed thus causing a regulatory reaction. This was almost, as many respected economists are on the record as saying, a global depression if the banks were allowed to fail so it's a huge deal and required a big response. Whether it is right or wrong to include forex leverage in the new regulations is really besides the point. I'm sure they had their reasons. If you think you know better then become a wall street lobbyist or an economist! If it was an over-reaction then perhaps they will walk it back eventually.

And I do not see how they can prevent you from trading in another country just like they cannot prevent you from putting your money in a foreign bank. Last I heard it was just something on the table but not engraved in stone. My guess is they will drop the idea because it would not be practical. They could not enforce it and all that would happen is people don't declare it and avoid paying taxes so I don't see it happening.

Lastly, if 50:1 is a problem for you then you are probably undercapitalized and shouldn't be trading in the first place. Perhaps that is why they are doing it. Yea, I heard the argument that people use high leverage so they can keep the bulk of their money elsewhere. I don't buy that argument either. 50:1 is plenty where you can still do that......if you are properly capitalize.
  • #435
  • Sep 4, 2010 6:43am Sep 4, 2010 6:43am
Quoting pip_daddy
If you got a problem with it then run for public office to help change the laws....
If you want to blame someone blame Wall Street which almost tanked the worldwide economy out of unregulated greed thus causing a regulatory reaction.
Please! If you want to lay blame for the crisis, you can lay alot of blame on Barney Frank and the democratic party for pushing loans on people who could never pay for them. His pushing banks was a big factor that brought on the housing bubble and burst. So he screwed up the housing market first and now is trying to tell us how and where we can trade forex.
  • #436
  • Sep 4, 2010 8:05am Sep 4, 2010 8:05am
Quoting Toothman
If you want to blame someone blame Wall Street which almost tanked the worldwide economy out of unregulated greed thus causing a regulatory reaction.
Please! If you want to lay blame for the crisis, you can lay alot of blame on Barney Frank and the democratic party for pushing loans on people who could never pay for them. His pushing banks was a big factor that brought on the housing bubble and burst. So he screwed up the housing market first and now is trying to tell us how and where we can trade forex.

Excellent post!
  • #437
  • Sep 4, 2010 8:59am Sep 4, 2010 8:59am
US retail traders aren't the only one losing with the Franks-Dodd bill.

Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan to close Principal Strategies Unit.

“The Dodd-Frank bill caused them to have some damage to the business here and they said it’s done, let’s get rid of it,” Michael Holland, who oversees more than $4 billion as chairman of Holland & Co. in New York, told Bloomberg Television."

http://bit.ly/aKvYBm
  • #438
  • Sep 4, 2010 9:07am Sep 4, 2010 9:07am
no real traders need 1:100 , unless he is trying to double his money everyday ...
To Live is the rarest thing in the world , Most people exist , that is all
  • #439
  • Sep 4, 2010 9:15am Sep 4, 2010 9:15am
Quoting Jhig
US retail traders aren't the only one losing with the Franks-Dodd bill.

Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan to close Principal Strategies Unit.

“The Dodd-Frank bill caused them to have some damage to the business here and they said it’s done, let’s get rid of it,” Michael Holland, who oversees more than $4 billion as chairman of Holland & Co. in New York, told Bloomberg Television."

http://bit.ly/aKvYBm
It's only a shell game.

Back in the late 80s/early 90's recession I was working for a semi-large international corp. They were having problems particularly at the division I worked at. Years later, the division was sold. They "new" owner was the same guy who was running it while it under the corp flag with many of the same employees.
  • #440
  • Sep 4, 2010 9:46am Sep 4, 2010 9:46am
Anybody who believes that Dodd-Frank is a good idea probably believes that giving credit to unqualified borrowers was a good idea also. Barney Frank was a major architect of that also. That was a major contributor to the world-wide financial problem. I for one, don't believe that the new rules are meant to protect anyone. They prevent us from protecting our money by moving it offshore.
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