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Attachments: US citizens won't be able to have forex accounts overseas
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US citizens won't be able to have forex accounts overseas

  • #401
  • Sep 1, 2010 10:11pm Sep 1, 2010 10:11pm
Quoting pipmutt
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50:1, well there you go, case closed!

All that panic over the little guys rights ... all the scaremongering and shouting fire about retail FX being banned... all for nothing! ...

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Well, I really dig that the previous rules made NO change to my br0ker..... and 50:1 will likely make NO change either. (obviously I trade with oanda).... They used to be 30:1 and that was quite tolerable..... 50:1 is a dream !!

Quoting tx_sandman
I, for one, would rather chew on broken glass than use a US brokerage.
Yeah I can dig that..... I, for one, would rather chew on broken glass than use a Russian brokerage. Trading does have its opposite sides, yes ??
  • #402
  • Sep 2, 2010 2:51am Sep 2, 2010 2:51am
Quoting tx_sandman

I, for one, would rather chew on broken glass than use a US brokerage.
Quoting Price

I, for one, would rather chew on broken glass than use a Russian brokerage.

I, for one, would rather donate my money to charity than send it to a Russian bröker, either way I'm never going to see it again!

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  • #403
  • Sep 2, 2010 3:43am Sep 2, 2010 3:43am
So open an offshore and trade through it.
  • #404
  • Sep 2, 2010 6:59am Sep 2, 2010 6:59am
Take a look at this:
http://blogs.fxstreet.com/francesc/2...pt-us-clients/

I think Now it’s really the time for U.S. retail traders to unite as one to protect our freedom of choice in this matter and any further interest conflicting with dealers or regulators.

The large U.S. brokers have done marvelously to save their own neck this past spring. They responded quickly by setting up FXDC to combine bargain power and mobilized individual traders to send comments. Now they successfully won the battle by capping leverage at 50:1 instead of 10:1 and banning U.S. traders doing business with overseas brokers if what IBFX claimed to be true. In what world does CFTC or NFA think they are doing a better job than ASIC and FSA?

Do we still believe U.S. regulators are knowledgeable and reasonable enough to protect our retail traders’ interest? Probably not. Do we still think largest U.S. brokers and traders have common interest? Not on every aspect. If we as traders can truly count on both of them, segregated accounts and insurance of our trading money would have become mandatory long time ago.

U.S. traders had a good experience, just look at how powerful the combined power was this spring. We really need a traders’ coalition just like the FXDC for the dealers, otherwise, the regulatory power and broker’s coalition will always be left unchecked and issues will keep emerging either from regulators’ incompetency or conflicts of interest with dealers.

I'm not sure if anyone here has the will and experience to run a non profit organization similar to FXDC. I think there are traders like me who would like to chip in some funds and free time to help. We cann't be free riders anymore and counting on regulators and brokers to watch out for us. Have to speak out.
  • #405
  • Sep 2, 2010 12:48pm Sep 2, 2010 12:48pm
Quoting Toothman
My broker says there is no mention of restrictions( in the new regulations) of US citizens with offshore accounts so it shouldn't effect them.
Spoke with the CFTC. They disagree with your broker's position. We will be discussing this at length on GreenTrader's conference call this afternoon that I will be participating in.

You can refer to this article at http://www.investmentlawgroup.com/cf...orex_rules.htm as a background on some of the terminology.

Here's a snippet of the email I sent to Green: I spoke with an attorney at the CFTC Monday who is dealing with these rules. His interpretation was that because of the change to the CEA by Dodd-Frank from "financial institution" to “U.S. financial institution”, overseas forex intermediaries that are not registered as FCMs or RFEDs will not be able to serve as counterparty to U.S.-based retail investors with respect to OTC forex transactions. This would apply to futures and options and futures “look alike” contracts. I say that the enforcement issues are unresolved in our article both because of the practical realities involved in enforcing this rule and because this was just an opinion of one regulator, not of the Agency.

I'll look for more questions on this thread and hope to be helpful as we all try to come to grips with these new rules.
  • #406
  • Sep 2, 2010 12:53pm Sep 2, 2010 12:53pm
The CFTC may well take the position that overseas forex intermediaries (brokers) are banned from entering into OTC forex contracts with U.S. based retail investors. This is based on a fairly strict reading of the CEA as amended by Dodd-Frank.

You can refer to this article at http://www.investmentlawgroup.com/cf...orex_rules.htm as a background on some of the terminology and this extraterritoriality issue in general. We will be addressing this issue in depth today on GreenTrader's conference call.

Here's a snippet of the email I sent to Green: I spoke with an attorney at the CFTC Monday who is dealing with these rules. His interpretation was that because of the change to the CEA by Dodd-Frank from "financial institution" to “U.S. financial institution”, overseas forex intermediaries that are not registered as FCMs or RFEDs will not be able to serve as counterparty to U.S.-based retail investors with respect to OTC forex transactions. This would apply to futures and options and futures “look alike” contracts. I say that the enforcement issues are unresolved in our article both because of the practical realities involved in enforcing this rule and because this was just an opinion of one regulator, not of the Agency.

I'll look for more questions on this thread and hope to be helpful as we all try to come to grips with these new rules.
  • #407
  • Sep 3, 2010 3:14am Sep 3, 2010 3:14am
In Australia my funds are held in a fully segregated account at a bank.

In Great Britain, I am protected by the FSA to the tune of 50K GBP.

In both places, my funds are protected against attachment back in the good ol' USA.

In either circumstance, my money is infinitely better off than at a "regulated" broker in the US.

Regarding whether I can keep the money there, for a foreign broker with no US presence, the US has no leverage over them. They do not answer to the CFTC. I have spoken with at least one of those brokers who expressed precisely these sentiments. So, for any foreign broker who fears the US regulatory authorities, there will be another quite happy to take the business.

The CFTC is looking after the US brokers, not the individuals in this, make no mistake about it, because these brokers weren't competitive with foreign brokers before this new rule and are even less competitive now. This regulation is purely self-serving. Like so many of the organs of our government, the CFTC has become twisted and evil. They beg for elimination. I agree some organization representing the interests of retail forex traders is long overdue and I really wish it existed. I too would contribute financially to such.
  • #408
  • Sep 3, 2010 7:59am Sep 3, 2010 7:59am
Quoting tx_sandman
In Australia my funds are held in a fully segregated account at a bank.

In Great Britain, I am protected by the FSA to the tune of 50K GBP.

In both places, my funds are protected against attachment back in the good ol' USA.

In either circumstance, my money is infinitely better off than at a "regulated" broker in the US.

Regarding whether I can keep the money there, for a foreign broker with no US presence, the US has no leverage over them. They do not answer to the CFTC. I have spoken with at least one of those brokers who expressed...
This is what I have learned also from speaking with my main broker. However I may be transferring to AUS IBFX...if my broker gets weak and bends to this BS. Good Comments sandman
  • #409
  • Sep 3, 2010 10:19am Sep 3, 2010 10:19am
Quoting forexlawman
Spoke with the CFTC. They disagree with your broker's position. We will be discussing this at length on GreenTrader's conference call this afternoon that I will be participating in.
So, whatever happened to the study these guys were supposed to take? Anybody else recall hearing about it? ...

Dodd-Frank SEC. 929Y. STUDY ON EXTRATERRITORIAL PRIVATE RIGHTS OF ACTION.
(a) In General- The Securities and Exchange Commission of the United States shall solicit public comment and thereafter conduct a study to determine the extent to which private rights of action under the antifraud provisions of the Securities and Exchange Act of 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78u-4) should be extended to cover-
(1) conduct within the United States that constitutes a significant step in the furtherance of the violation, even if the securities transaction occurs outside the United States and involves only foreign investors;
(2) conduct occurring outside the United States that has a foreseeable substantial effect within the United States.
  • #410
  • Sep 3, 2010 10:42am Sep 3, 2010 10:42am
Quoting forexlawman
The CFTC may well take the position that overseas forex intermediaries (brokers) are banned from entering into OTC forex contracts with U.S. based retail investors. This is based on a fairly strict reading of the CEA as amended by Dodd-Frank.
And, if they didn't conduct the study or, solicit public comment, how exactly do we interpret that?

Again, when was this study supposed to occur?
  • #411
  • Sep 3, 2010 11:05am Sep 3, 2010 11:05am
Quoting forexlawman
The CFTC may well take the position that overseas forex intermediaries (brokers) are banned from entering into OTC forex contracts with U.S. based retail investors. This is based on a fairly strict reading of the CEA as amended by Dodd-Frank.
So, it has more to do with the CFTC and foreign brokers then, and not the retail investors? Sounds more like a scare tactic.

Oh well, so long as I'm not prohibited (as an investor) from opening an account with someone the CTFC has no jurisdiction over.
  • #412
  • Sep 3, 2010 11:08am Sep 3, 2010 11:08am
If the cftc passed that rule I would get with some lawyers and file a lawsuit quicker than they can pass new rules.
For one the cftc is not even a government body like the SEC. There are real questions about what kind of authority they can dish out anyway.

Regards,
Jeff

Quoting ecTrade
So, it has more to do with the CFTC and foreign brokers then, and not the retail investors? Sounds more like a scare tactic.

Oh well, just so long as I'm not prohibited (as an investor) from opening an account with someone the CTFC has no jurisdiction over.
  • #413
  • Edited 1:05pm Sep 3, 2010 11:16am | Edited 1:05pm
"G'day!

IBFX Holdings invites you to celebrate with us in the grand opening of our subsidiary company, IBFX Australia Pty Ltd. We hope you’ll embrace our family as we launch IBFX Australia.

In light of the recent CFTC off-exchange retail foreign currency regulations, which will reduce leverage to 50:1(effective October 18, 2010), IBFX Australia will be accepting applications immediately for all retail traders.
With IBFX Australia, you will receive the same world class trade execution and customer support as Interbank FX, LLC. You will also receive the same transaction transparency which is setting a standard in the foreign exchange market. What’s more, we’re also offering:

• Full Hedging available*
• Leverage, up to 400:1*
• All Expert Advisors welcome
• Automated execution and competitive spreads
• Multi-bank liquidity feed from eight global banks
• Over 40 free custom indicators and tools
• World class customer service
• Free streaming Dow Jones news

*This may work for you or against you. Increased leverage increases risk.

As we expand into Australia and beyond, we hope you’ll join us in welcoming IBFX Australia into our family. It is our hope that we will be able to serve as your broker partner as we implement a variety of exciting tools and services in the near future, including the same spreads and execution “Down Under.” To view our transparency stats, please visit http://www.ibfx.com/Corporate/post/2...PORT-CARD.aspx.

Visit www.ibfx.com.au to open your account at IBFX Australia today!

Cheers,

The IBFX family"
  • #414
  • Sep 3, 2010 11:54am Sep 3, 2010 11:54am
Thank you for contacting us. The next available agent will be right with you.
You are now chatting with 'Client Services 20'
Client Services 20: Hello, this is Heidi. How may I help you?
NONE: hi, just wanted to see if there's any clear information on wether the new CFTC rules will allow me to have an account overseas such as ifbx australia?
NONE: i find conflicting info everywhere
Client Services 20: Yes I understand. As of right now they had amended their decision to be that US citizens may open an account overseas in Australia and hold an account there until July 2011
Client Services 20: So for right now we will allow our clients to open an account with our Australia.
NONE: so what happens on july 2011? it's not allowed?
NONE: or it just doesnt say
Client Services 20: As it stands now (it may change later), but at that time you would need to come back to a US based broker.
Client Services 20: Which for our clients we will make this process simple.
Client Services 20: The only difference you would see is that the leverage and hedging would be different
NONE: another question, i live in the US but i'm not actually a US citizen
NONE: i would still have to be moved to US broker
NONE: in july 2011
NONE: ?
Client Services 20: yes
NONE: thanks.
  • #415
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:33pm Sep 3, 2010 12:33pm
Hey, sign me up!

Oh, one quick question. Since I will be transferring funds from my IBFX U.S. account, would it also be possible to transfer funds from my IBFX Australia account back to my IBFX U.S. account? The reason I'm asking is because I already have a Zion's Bank account, which I use to avoid any unnecessary bank charges when making withdrawals, etc. But the thing that really gets me are wire transfers, which would be okay, I guess? if I had thousands and thousands of dollars to invest ... which I don't.

While just recently I opened a trial account at GoMarkets for $100 which, if understand correctly, after paying a 3% credit card fee on the deposit (which isn't too bad), it will cost an additional $70 if I want whatever's left ($27) returned to me via wire transfer. And that is insane!
  • #416
  • Edited 1:25pm Sep 3, 2010 12:54pm | Edited 1:25pm
Quoting ckeu
NONE: i find conflicting info everywhere
Client Services 20: Yes I understand. As of right now they had amended their decision to be that US citizens may open an account overseas in Australia and hold an account there until July 2011
Client Services 20: So for right now we will allow our clients to open an account with our Australia.
NONE: so what happens on july 2011? it's not allowed?
NONE: or it just doesnt say
Client Services 20: As it stands now (it may change later), but at that time you would need to come back to a US based broker.
Oops, I didn't see this while posting. What a crock!

Oh well, 10 months is better than nothing, I guess? ...
  • #417
  • Sep 3, 2010 1:10pm Sep 3, 2010 1:10pm
These guys won't be satisfied until they dry up every last ounce of liquidity.
  • #418
  • Sep 3, 2010 1:20pm Sep 3, 2010 1:20pm
Quoting azjeff
If the cftc passed that rule I would get with some lawyers and file a lawsuit quicker than they can pass new rules.
For one the cftc is not even a government body like the SEC. There are real questions about what kind of authority they can dish out anyway.

Regards,
Jeff
Apparently their "authority" was granted to them by the "Farm Bill", before, they didn't have any jurisdiction over us at all.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #419
  • Sep 3, 2010 1:26pm Sep 3, 2010 1:26pm
There are questions about whether or not they have jurisdiction over whether they tell us citizens with where and who they can trade with. That includes non us based brokers. From everything I have read they do not have that authority and if they try to enforce on it me then I will get an attorney' that will challenge them very quickly.

Regards,
Jeff

Quoting Forexia
Apparently their "authority" was granted to them by the "Farm Bill", before, they didn't have any jurisdiction over us at all.
  • #420
  • Sep 3, 2010 1:36pm Sep 3, 2010 1:36pm
Hey, sounds like a plan. Just be sure and make it a class action suit. Not everyone can afford an attorney!
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