Thoughts on 50:1 Leverage | Page 4 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Anyone using high leverage successfully? 72 replies

High leverage vs Low leverage 74 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 21 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 20 replies

Inquiry of 400:1 leverage method 11 replies

Thoughts on 50:1 Leverage

  • #61
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:43pm Sep 2, 2010 4:43pm
If I'm that stupid that I need Uncle Sam to "protect" me from losing my $25 dollar micro account, then I'm not smart enough to figure out how to even apply for such a thing in the first place. I am tired of everything I do becoming almost illegal because I am not OJ Simpson rich to have my own goals and ambitions. Some of us found Forex because we aren't rich enough to play stocks after the new rules there on September 12, 2001 that state you much be wealthy to daytrade so to speak. You can't do most businesses because of the paperwork and such involved. Auto parts stores get invaded because they had a day where they gave out free donuts. Lemonade stands shut down for lack of expansive paperwork.
You are no allowed to show any self ambition. However if you are in a union somewhere, they'll go out of their way to protect you to work until the day you croak on the assembly line. Just don't quit and start your own firm.

Harsh maybe. I admit. But in over 10 years, I am so sick of people in power pushing me back into these horrible mundane jobs. Maybe I'll never make more than a 100 bucks a year on trading my 400:1 leverage. But I love dreaming about the POSSIBLITY of going pro someday. Or going home and waking up with a weeks salary in my account. It is nice. It is fun. It feeds the spirit.
Without dreams, where does the American Dream go? Does it become a fable? The American dream isn't about workers rights, it's about dreams and ambitions. I can lose my 100 dollars getting ripped off in any number of places, I don't need to be restricted with it here. Now we have to find our American Dream where, is there Chinese Brokers now(no knock to China, i admire their "to be rich is glorious" expressions)?

Your Honour, i rest my case!

***
edit, I didn't even read the orignal post before my rant, and how refreshing i finally found someone who says and uses the same words I do.
this law is offensive
  • #62
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:49pm Sep 2, 2010 4:49pm
Quoting techno79
If I'm that stupid that I need Uncle Sam to "protect" me from losing my $25 dollar micro account, then I'm not smart enough to figure out how to even apply for such a thing in the first place. I am tired of everything I do becoming almost illegal because I am not OJ Simpson rich to have my own goals and ambitions. Some of us found Forex because we aren't rich enough to play stocks after the new rules there on September 12, 2001 that state you much be wealthy to daytrade so to speak. You can't do most businesses because of the paperwork and such...

well said
  • #63
  • Sep 2, 2010 5:02pm Sep 2, 2010 5:02pm
Quoting techno79
If I'm that stupid that I need Uncle Sam to "protect" me from losing my $25 dollar micro account, then I'm not smart enough to figure out how to even apply for such a thing in the first place. I am tired of everything I do becoming almost illegal because I am not OJ Simpson rich to have my own goals and ambitions. Some of us found Forex because we aren't rich enough to play stocks after the new rules there on September 12, 2001 that state you much be wealthy to daytrade so to speak. You can't do most businesses because of the paperwork and such...
Well Uncle Sam is already passing laws trying to make Spot Forex trading difficult and eventually unprofitable. So you might as well let them help you protect your "$25 micro-trding account". Because right now, we are losing at both ends, we are getting more and more regulated but without real protection for people who wants to invest more than $25.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #64
  • Sep 2, 2010 5:16pm Sep 2, 2010 5:16pm
Quoting techno79

If I'm that stupid that I need Uncle Sam to "protect" me from losing my $25 dollar micro account, then I'm not smart enough to figure out how to even apply for such a thing in the first place.......
Unfortunately some people are not as smart as you.

Quoting techno79

Maybe I'll never make more than a 100 bucks a year on trading my 400:1 leverage. But I love dreaming about the POSSIBLITY of going pro someday. Or going home and waking up with a weeks salary in my account.
Maybe that's the problem, gullible people who know nothing about trading were being sold a dream which had little to no chance of becoming reality. Shops used ridiculous leverage as a marketing tool to entice new suckers through the door......fortunately that's being stopped now. Sure, the majority will still lose, but at 50:1 the game isn't as attractive to the get-rich-on-$100 brigade as it was, and at least they'll get a few goes at making it rather than blowing it all on one spin!

I don't think anyone's trying to stop you having goals, ambitions, and dreams but at least base them on something remotely achievable rather than throwing money away, surely that's common sense isn't it, a commodity in short supply in this business it seems!
  • #65
  • Sep 2, 2010 5:51pm Sep 2, 2010 5:51pm
Quoting pipmutt
That's what I can't understand, it seems like such an obvious issue yet they continue to avoid it. Strange.

Perhaps there's some fundamental reason why currencies can't be insured but what that could be escapes me. If no insurance is available maybe the industry as a whole should be obliged to set up an 'emergency' fund for if/when one of their members goes into liquidation. Other industries have similar setups, why not this one?
This is what socialist countries, and sadly, some Americans, cannot grasp; free market / entrepreneur-ism demands failure of some. There are too many variables involved to make sure there are no losers. You cannot pass laws or setup insurance schemes to cover every act of stupidity.
  • #66
  • Sep 2, 2010 5:59pm Sep 2, 2010 5:59pm
Quoting pipmutt
Unfortunately some people are not as smart as you.


Maybe that's the problem, gullible people who know nothing about trading were being sold a dream which had little to no chance of becoming reality. Shops used ridiculous leverage as a marketing tool to entice new suckers through the door......fortunately that's being stopped now. Sure, the majority will still lose, but at 50:1 the game isn't as attractive to the get-rich-on-$100 brigade as it was, and at least they'll get a few goes at making it rather than blowing it all on one spin!

I don't...
But forex has only two directions. The pair goes up or it goes down. I understand this isn't what you mean, but I don't think things are unachievable on here once people smarten up and have a clue. To have a clue you have to lose your 25 bucks a few times.

I am reminded of the stories a few years back about the market being controled by Japanese housewives in the evenings who poured so much money into trading. Uncle Sam just put a fence around them.

Maybe 400 to 700 leverage is excessive. I disagree but ok. 100 didn't seem that horrible. but a goal of 20, with a compromise of 50? That's as much bull as the depression of 29 being caused solely by Margin.
  • #67
  • Sep 2, 2010 6:24pm Sep 2, 2010 6:24pm
What are we going to do when they get it down to where they want it 10:1 If we let them get us to 50:1 they will take us to 10:1...
  • #68
  • Sep 2, 2010 7:17pm Sep 2, 2010 7:17pm
Quoting live4pips
What are we going to do when they get it down to where they want it 10:1 If we let them get us to 50:1 they will take us to 10:1...
Don't wait. Act now.

 

  1. Trade like the devil.
  2. Stay away from forums for education because long term profitable traders don't have time to hang out and share.
  3. Only get your trading education from real professional traders who publish trading specific books like Bollinger, Raschke... etc.
  4. Save as much money as possible and set aside a portion for the business.
  5. Throw your TV in the trash. You don't have time for it anyway. You should be watching the fx markets for hours everyday regardless if you take a trade or not. Our brains make associations by our sensory system, so what we fix our eyes on will have an effect. The associations needed to trade fx take hundred, if not thousands, of hours before our conscience mind recognizes.

  • #69
  • Sep 2, 2010 7:27pm Sep 2, 2010 7:27pm
Quoting techno79
I am reminded of the stories a few years back about the market being controled by Japanese housewives in the evenings who poured so much money into trading. Uncle Sam just put a fence around them.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/jap...m-over-brokers

FSA in Japan is lowering retail margin first to 50:1 this year, then to 25:1 next year...
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #70
  • Sep 2, 2010 7:54pm Sep 2, 2010 7:54pm
Maxsmart,

Well said & I agree for the most part, but the so call regulators have the blessing of Obama & his cast of clows don't you think? Now, how many on this & other forums voted for this Obama is the question. Yes, Dodd & Frank are in the middle as well, as they help create the so called financial mess that propelled us to this point. I know of one trader on this very forum that said in another thread that he like Obama. This very trader sells his trading skills on this very forum & he is only one of many that fell for the hope & change ruse. Well, now we are getting the change & the only hope I see is voting these clowns & their regulators out of office in 2010 & 2012. Oh, by the way this trader now live in Asia, not that theres anything wrong with Asia, just his views on our so called president.

Yes, our freedoms are surely at stake not only in trading, but in making everyday decisons for you & your family. Maxsmart, you are correct we need to make our voices heard by contacting our congressman.

Just my views & nothing more while I can still express my views.

__________________________________
  • #71
  • Sep 2, 2010 8:01pm Sep 2, 2010 8:01pm
Quoting acetrader
Maxsmart,...
100% RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT I did not vote for him but I see the ones who did are now realizing ( uh sh1T) ... You all wanted change.... Well ya got it..
  • #72
  • Sep 2, 2010 8:10pm Sep 2, 2010 8:10pm
Quoting Slack
This is what socialist countries, and sadly, some Americans, cannot grasp; free market / entrepreneur-ism demands failure of some. There are too many variables involved to make sure there are no losers. You cannot pass laws or setup insurance schemes to cover every act of stupidity.
Well, investing with an unscrupulous or failing brokers shouldn't be considered "an act of stupidity"; this can happen with the best of any traders. Just go through the list of victims who invested with Madoff, you can find some very successful and sophisticated individuals and organizations.

The only way a trader should lose money is through his/her own trading, at whatever leverage levels.

Why the government keeps avoiding setting something up to provide some insurance for the Retail Forex Industry? Very simple. They don't want to see Retail Forex Industry to succeed. They don't want investors to feel "safe" to invest in Retail Forex industry and at the same time they lower the leverage levels to make it unprofitable. They want to see Retail Forex disappear so the "Big Boys" face no competition anymore and we go back to be chained to our desks and work for minimum wage for the "Big Boys".
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #73
  • Sep 2, 2010 8:13pm Sep 2, 2010 8:13pm
Quoting Slack
Don't wait. Act now.
[list][*]Trade like the devil.[*]Stay away from forums for education because long term profitable traders don't have time to hang out and share.[*]Only get your trading education from real professional traders who publish trading specific books like Bollinger, Raschke... etc.[*]Save as much money as possible and set aside a portion for the business.[*]Throw your TV in the trash. You don't have time for it anyway. You should be watching the fx markets for hours everyday regardless if you take a trade or not. Our brains...
What are you doing in a Forum?!! I thought you are trading!!!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #74
  • Sep 2, 2010 8:16pm Sep 2, 2010 8:16pm
Quoting Forexia
What are you doing in a Forum?!! I thought you are trading!!!
I come here for entertainment and until Tuesday, I'm in capital preservation mode.
  • #75
  • Sep 2, 2010 8:37pm Sep 2, 2010 8:37pm
Quoting Slack
I come here for entertainment and until Tuesday, I'm in capital preservation mode.
I am here for the same reason Slack.. I would not give a cup of piss for 99.999% of the trading systems at FF.. Pure entertainment when times are slow..

And to all you that will just move your accounts to overseas accounts.. Thats a bright idea until that changes to,, they will not allow off shore trading for very long.. In this day and age it's all about cutting freedoms and screwing the American public in the @ss as hard as big GOV can... So it's all fine and dandy to move your accounts overseas for a bit and trade while you can... This is a simple fix DEPOSIT MORE MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT.. Or cut you income in half.. Has anyone ever came out and said why the hell they made this discussion in the first place.. Don't they have better things to worry about.. http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/misc/progress.gif
  • #76
  • Sep 2, 2010 9:44pm Sep 2, 2010 9:44pm
Quoting live4pips
And to all you that will just move your accounts to overseas accounts.. Thats a bright idea until that changes to,, they will not allow off shore trading for very long.. In this day and age it's all about cutting freedoms and screwing the American public in the @ss as hard as big GOV can... So it's all fine and dandy to move your accounts overseas for a bit and trade while you can... This is a simple fix DEPOSIT MORE MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT.. Or cut you income in half.. Has anyone ever came out and said why the hell they made this discussion in the...
Well, it's all about enjoying as much as freedom as we can and for as long as we can before the government who works for the "Big Banks and Corporations" takes them away
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #77
  • Sep 2, 2010 10:21pm Sep 2, 2010 10:21pm
Quoting pipmutt
It might reduce their return percentage, sure, but if they want to maintain a similar level of income then it's simple enough, all they need to do is increase trading equity to cover their brökers additional margin requirement. If they're trading "10 standard lots and up" and have "great scalping skills" then that really shouldn't present any problem should it? I guess they're just going to have to settle for realistic returns.
This isn't directed to you, but just a convenient place to vent....

I make a lot of money using 400:1 leverage....why do I need to settle for the "realistic" returns other traders make rather than the "realistic" returns I am already making? Why should my trading results be lowered because people feel the leverage I use is too high for them? Some people don't trade high leverage...that is a personal choice. But keep it a choice....no one makes people use 400:1, but just because some don't use it, why should that option be taken away from me? How is that protecting me?

Sure, I can maintain a similar level of income by increasing the money available in my account.....but that means rather than trading 20 contracts for ~$6K, It will now cost ~$40K to trade the same number of contracts.

People need to remember that not everyone trades micro/mini accounts, so changes like this affect some more than others.

Okay, I'm done...
  • #78
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:43am Sep 3, 2010 12:43am
Quoting techno79

I am reminded of the stories a few years back about the market being controled by Japanese housewives in the evenings who poured so much money into trading. Uncle Sam just put a fence around them.
Mrs. Watanabe is about to have her wings clipped as well, and I imagine regulators in other countries won't be far behind.

Quoting techno79

Maybe 400 to 700 leverage is excessive. I disagree but ok. 100 didn't seem that horrible. but a goal of 20, with a compromise of 50? That's as much bull as the depression of 29 being caused solely by Margin.
Regulators obviously thought it was a good idea, it seems brökers agree, and the majority of traders won't be affected as according to one major bröker the majority of their clients are leveraged <50:1. Bottom line seems to be only a small minority of a minority group will be affected, for the good of a larger group, the vulnerable and gullible dreamers who fall for these kind of things.


Quoting moneymaker2

....no one makes people use 400:1, but just because some don't use it, why should that option be taken away from me? How is that protecting me?
It's not, it's protecting the vulnerable and gullible who are enticed into the game on the expectation of unachievable returns. Invariably they lose all their money, and it's probably money they can ill afford to lose.

Quoting moneymaker2

Sure, I can maintain a similar level of income by increasing the money available in my account.....but that means rather than trading 20 contracts for ~$6K, It will now cost ~$40K to trade the same number of contracts.
I'm interested to know how you guys use your 400:1 leverage and still keep within sensible risk parameters!
  • #79
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:53am Sep 3, 2010 12:53am
Quoting Slack
Don't wait. Act now.

....Throw your TV in the trash. You don't have time for it anyway. You should be watching the fx markets for hours everyday regardless if you take a trade or not.
Sarcasm, right?
  • #80
  • Sep 3, 2010 2:04am Sep 3, 2010 2:04am
Quoting pipmutt
It's not, it's protecting the vulnerable and gullible who are enticed into the game on the expectation of unachievable returns. Invariably they lose all their money, and it's probably money they can ill afford to lose.


I'm interested to know how you guys use your 400:1 leverage and still keep within sensible risk parameters!
As adults, I think that people should be allowed to determine if they can take the risk or can afford to lose the money, not someone else making that decision for them. Who decides who has that power? Who is to say what is achievable or not? Majority of the people on FF would say that I have no idea what I am doing trading high leverage, higher than the famed "2% max" , short time frames, etc.....but it is successful for me, so why not let me have the option to trade that way? Who benefits to turn my returns using high leverage into mediocre returns using low leverage?

I never understood why, if a trader is confident in his/her trading ability, they would NOT want to use the highest leverage possible? The amount of leverage doesn't make you a good or bad trader...it has nothing to do with when you enter or exit a trade or how you determine when to do either. If you are not successful at making good trades, you will still be unsuccessful at 1000:1 or 1:1, it won't matter. Changing leverage will not keep people from losing their money, just change the time frame they lose it in. But if you are a good trader, all high leverage really does it increase your buying power and allow you to make more money quicker.

I am not sure I understand the comment about "sensible risk parameters"...obviously I am operating with what I consider sensible risk parameters now, but I am confident that many would consider them extreme. So "sensible" is a personal thing, like preferring blonde or brunette....Heck, my idea of a sensible return is at least $2500/week, but just because I wouldn't trade for any less, doesn't mean other people wouldn't be happy with $100/week.....so let everyone trade the way they want for the return they want.

So who decides what is right for everyone? All of the "tribal knowledge" matter-of-fact info on R:R, leverage, SL settings, indicators, determination of lots, etc. is certainly not the only way to trade, or there would be a lot more people making money in currency than there are now!

I am not advocating using high leverage or higher risk or anything that gets people out of their comfort zone....all I am advocating is give people the information on the risks involved and let them make their own decision and not be dictated what to do under the pretense of "protecting them".
0 traders viewing now